Why God Did Not Elect Calvinists...

The biblical usage of “election” has absolutely nothing to do with salvation contrary to the teaching of Calvinism. Calvin summarizes this foundational doctrine in his book Institutes of the Christian Religion (Book 3 chapter 21): “Of the eternal election, by which God has predestinated some to salvation, and others to destruction.” He qualifies his summary by stating:

"The predestination by which God adopts some to the hope of life, and adjudges others to eternal death, no man who would be thought pious ventures simply to deny…By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death." (Calvin Institutes 3:21:5: 06 all emphasis in this article is mine)

Calvinist James White reiterates Calvin’s words demonstrating that Calvin meant what he said. White states: “God elects a specific people unto Himself without reference to anything they do. This means the basis of God’s choice of the elect is solely within Himself. His grace, His mercy, His will. It is not man’s actions, works, or even foreseen faith, that “draws” God’s choice. God’s election is unconditional and final.“ (James R. White, The Potter’s Freedom, Amityville, NY: Calvary Press, 2000, p. 39) This is also echoed by Loraine Boettner, in The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination

“The Doctrine of absolute Predestination of course logically holds that some are foreordained to death as truly as others are foreordained to life. The very terms ‘elect’ and ‘election’ imply the terms ‘non-elect’ and ‘reprobation’. When some are chosen out others are left not chosen. The high privileges and glorious destiny of the former are not shared with the latter…Those who hold the doctrine of Election but deny that of Reprobation can lay but little claim to consistency. To affirm the former while denying the latter makes the decree of predestination an illogical and lop-sided decree. The creed which states the former but denies the latter will resemble a wounded eagle attempting to fly with but one wing.” (Loraine Boettner The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination 1932 from 2000 bible study centre™ DIGITAL LIBRARY p. 104-5)

The good news, however, is that “election, elect, chosen” (and the derivatives) are terms that have nothing to do with one’s eternal destiny. Scripture does speak at length of “the elect” and “the chosen” but these terms are devoid of the Calvinistic sense of someone who has been chosen to receive eternal life. The term elect and its derivatives therefore are not salvific in meaning but simply refer to persons or things that are chosen for a particular purpose and the purpose has nothing to do with eternal life. Once the definition of the word is established biblically, the foundation of Calvinism will be undermined and will collapse and arguing the tenants of TULIP will become inapplicable. The word elect (Greek verb: eklegomai ἐκλέγομαι; Hebrew verb: bakharבָּחַר) means to choose, select. The elect or chosen (as nouns or adjectives) are those people or things that have been elected, selected, or chosen for a particular purpose by someone. Scripture bears witness that elect and its derivatives have nothing to do with someone being chosen specifically to eternal life.

In the Old Testament, we see times when God chose and people chose. God chose Levi to minister forever “… the LORD your God has chosen [bakhar בָּחַר Greek LXX eklexetai εκλεξηται] him…” Deut 18:5 (see also 1 Chr 15:2) . God chose Saul to be the first king of Israel. What is fascinating about King Saul is that he was chosen both by God and the people: “…Samuel said to all the people, ‘Do you see him whom the LORD has chosen (Hebrew and Greek are the same roots as above)…’” (1 Sam 10:24) Two chapters later he was chosen by the people: “…here is the king whom you have chosen and whom you have desired. And take note, the LORD has set a king over you.” (1Sam 12:13) Saul’s election by God had nothing to do with eternal life. Saul was chosen, elected by God for the purpose to be king over Israel and with that he had all of the potential to be a good king and for his lineage to be the lineage of the Messiah. "Why then did you not obey the voice of the LORD? … Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king.” (1 Sam 15:19, 22-23) It is only after repeated disobedience is Saul rejected and David chosen to take his place. Saul’s election by God to be king had nothing to do with eternal life and his removal from being king likewise had nothing to do with eternal life – he was simply removed from his post. Saul is analogous to Judas in many ways because both he and Judas were chosen yet they both forfeited their election. “Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose [eklegomai ἐκλέγομαι] you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” (John 6:70) God elected David to be king and passed over the other seven sons of Jesse. “The LORD said to Samuel, ‘Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him’ … Neither has the LORD chosen this one…the LORD has not chosen these.” (1 Sam 16:7-10). The choosing or election had nothing to do with eternal life according to the Calvinist definition: God chose David because of what He saw in the heart and He chose him to be king – not for the purpose of eternal life. See Luke 6:13; John 13:18, 15:16, 19; Acts 1:2, 24, 15:7 concerning Jesus choosing of the disciples, one of whom was a devil (John 6:70).

God’s election of Messiah further demonstrates that the term election is devoid of the Calvinistic concept of eternal life. Jesus, the Messiah-God-Incarnate, certainly has no need of salvation or eternal life; He is the source of life! “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One [LXX: eklektos εκλεκτος] in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him…" (Isa 42:1, see also Isaiah 49:7) This very title was used of Jesus on the cross “…the rulers with them sneered, saying, ‘He saved others; let Him save Himself if He is the Christ, the chosen of God.’” (Luke 23:35). Peter further confirms God’s election of the Messiah: “Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious” (1 Pet 2:4, see also 1 Pet 2:6). Jesus was unquestionably chosen, elected, predestined by God to be the Messiah but His election was not for His salvation. He was chosen by the Father to give us eternal life! In a similar fashion we find that angels can be elected – demonstrating that “elect” does not mean chosen to eternal life (see also Heb 2:16 regarding the fact that God only offers salvation to mankind): “I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the electangels…” (1 Tim 5:21)

God also elected (chose) Jerusalem to be His city proving that election has nothing to do with eternal life. “Yet I have chosen Jerusalem, that My name may be there, and I have chosen David to be over My people Israel.” (2 Chr 6:6) “…the city which You have chosen…” (1 Kgs 8:44) “…and for the sake of Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen…” (1 Kgs 11:32), “…the city which I have chosen for Myself, to put My name there.” (1 Kgs 11:36) “For the LORD has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His dwelling place.” (Ps 132:13) In all of these verses we see that God has chosen or elected Jerusalem for a purpose and the word election does not entail eternal life.

In Corinthians we learn that God has chosen foolish, weak, base and despised things: “But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,” (1 Cor 1:27-28; see also James 2:5) Not only is election used to describe God’s choosing of people, places, and things for His special purposes, it is used for men’s choosing of the true God and of false gods. “So Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen the LORD for yourselves, to serve Him…” (Josh 24:22) “Go and cry out to the gods which you have chosen; let them deliver you in your time of distress.” (Judg 10:14) Jesus points out others who chose poorly in the Gospel of Luke: “Jesus noticed how the guests chose the places of honor, He told them a parable. He said to them…when you are invited…do not take the place of honor.” (Luke 14:8) Our conclusion from the above verses is that election has nothing to do with predestination to eternal life. God chose priests, kings and Jerusalem for His purposes and man chose both God and idols. We would be wrong to try to insert the concept of predestination into the term election.

While election is made by God and men of people and places, there is a usage that stands out uniquely in Scripture: God’s chosen people, the elect, are the Israelites. The title “chosen/elect” is in no less than eight verses in Scripture. The use of the title “elect” to describe Israel becomes very important when we venture into the New Testament because it clears up many theological, soteriological, and eschatological issues.

Seed of Israel His servant, you children of Jacob, His chosen ones! (1 Chr 16:13)

Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, The people He has chosen as His own inheritance. (Ps 33:12)

Seed of Abraham His servant, you children of Jacob, His chosen ones! (Ps 105:6)

He brought out His people with joy, His chosen ones with gladness. (Ps 105:43)

For the LORD has chosen Jacob for Himself, Israel for His special treasure. (Ps 135:4)

I will bring forth descendants from Jacob, And from Judah an heir of My mountains; My elect shall inherit it, And My servants shall dwell there. (Isa 65:9)

For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. (Isa 65:22)

The verses above demonstrate how God has specifically called Israel, Jacob, the Seed of Abraham His chosen. Thus the term “the chosen” or “my chosen” and “the elect” is a reference to ethnic Israel. This point is proven by Paul who, in a synagogue on the Sabbath day in Antioch, read from the Law and Prophets and then spoke to his fellow Jews: “Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen: ‘The God of this people Israel chose our fathers…’” (Acts 13:16, 17) Thus, the election of Israel was true in the Old Testament and the New Testament as well.

With the definition of “the elect/chosen” established, we are now ready to proceed to the teachings of Jesus Whom we must remember was Himself Jewish. In Matthew 22 Jesus, speaking with the Pharisees, compares the Kingdom of Heaven to a King who prepared a wedding feast for His Son. Those that were invited to the wedding feast were not interested in coming so the King sent His servants out calling everyone who would come. That the invited guests to the wedding were the Israelites is certain. Jesus Himself confirms this in His rebuke to the Pharisees: “And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 8:11) There are also many passages in the Old Testament that speak of the Messianic age in which the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would be God’s special people (See for example: Isaiah 2, 4, 11, 60-66). Therefore, Jesus’ statement “For many are called, but few are chosen,” (Matt 22:14; see also Matt 20:16) must be interpreted in light of who are the chosen – that is the Jews! The chosen, elect (the Jews) were the ones to whom the promise of the Messianic Age was first given. However, when the bridegroom came they were not willing to come and therefore God the Father gave instruction for all (the many) to be called to the feast.

Understanding who the elect are unlocks the passage for us. Knowing that the elect are the Jews completely rules out any Calvinistic interpretation of the passage. Note that both the called and chosen still needed salvation as indicated by the wedding garment and he who was found in the feast without a garment was cast out.

We next come to the references to the elect in Matthew 24 in which Jesus is telling the disciples of what the days of the tribulation would be like. Armed with the knowledge that the elect are the Jews, we can consistently interpret the passage; the elect in Matthew 24 are not Gentile believers in the tribulation, but are God’s chosen, that is the Jews. “And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened… For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." (Matt 24:22, 24) Mark’s Gospel adds “…for the elect’s sake, whom He chose…” (Mark 13:20) emphasizing those whom God chose: the Jews. If the elect are interpreted as those whom God has predestined to eternal life, then a conundrum arises, in particular, for those of us of a pretibulational perspective; who exactly is being gathered at the end of the tribulation? “He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” (Matt 24:31) There can be no question that this gathering happens after the events of the Great Tribulation and yet, if it is referring to the same catching up of believers in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, then the teaching of the pretribulational rapture would be nullified. However, once we realize that the elect here are not believers in general but specifically the Israelites/Jews then the matter is resolved. Two-thirds of the (up to then non-believing) Jews will tragically perish and the one-third (Zech. 13:8) remaining will be gathered at the end of the Great Tribulation. It also fits in with Revelation 19 where the believers return with Jesus to the earth because they have already been caught up to Him. The Old Testament proves that the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24 must be speaking of the Jews. Jesus used the language of Isaiah 11 to describe the gathering of the elect, an obvious reference to the Jews: “He will set up a banner for the nations, and will assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” (Isa 11:12) The gathering of the Jews is further predicted in Isaiah 43:5, 54:7, and Zechariah 2:6. When we realize that the usage of “chosen” or “elect” has nothing to do with (predestined to) eternal life then many of the difficult Bible passages are easy to interpret.

Peter likewise uses the term elect to describe the Jews. We know so because Peter says as much: “Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ…” (1 Pet 1:1-2) The word “dispersion” (Greek diaspora διασπορά) was used to describe the scattering among the nations that God had promised to the Jews (Israel) if they would not follow Him (Lev 26:33; Deut 4:27; Neh 1:8, etc.; the LXX uses the same Greek word as the NT). James, in his epistle, could not be any clearer that the diaspora is Israel when he says: “To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad [en te diaspora εν τη διασπορα]: Greetings.” (James 1:1). The twelve tribes are of course Israel (the Jews) and they are in the diaspora – the same group to which Peter was addressing his letter. At the end of his first epistle, Peter further establishes that the elect were none other than Jewish believers, who were also in the diaspora. He writes (in the NKJV) “She who is in Babylon, elect together with [you,] greets you.” (1 Pet 5:13) Now at first glance it appears that Peter might be referring to some woman by the use of the word “she” (aute αὐτή) – which by the way, is absent from the Greek text. The word in the text is the feminine article (he ἡ) which is referencing back to something that was already addressed in the letter. We know that the something in question is also elect and is an adjective modifier to the something because “elect” is feminine singular (suneklekte συνεκλεκτὴ). The question is, however, what is the something that the article and adjective refer to? The answer is to consider to whom the feminine something is sending greetings. That takes us back to the first chapter where Peter established already that he was writing to the pilgrims who were in the diaspora. Diaspora is a singular feminine word and hence it fits the bill perfectly. Certain translations, like the NET Bible for example, have translated the feminine article in 1 Peter 5:13 not as “she” but as “the church”. Their selection at first appears justified since Peter is obviously writing to believers in Jesus and of course, the word (ekklesia ἐκκλησία) is singular feminine. The weakness of the translation, however, is proven by the fact that the word ekklesia does not appear even once in either of Peter’s epistles. The word diaspora does appear and fits both in number and gender. Lastly, we must acknowledge two important points: 1) Peter was the apostle to the Jews. In Galatians 2:7-9 Paul states that he “was entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised just as Peter was to the circumcised” (Gal 2:7). 2) Babylon was the third largest Jewish center in the ancient world. When the Jews were given leave under Cyrus to return to Israel in 536 BC, only a small remnant returned while many thousands stayed in Babylon. The writing of the Babylonian Talmud gives concrete proof to the fact that Babylon was a major center of Jewish life and culture. Since Peter was the apostle specifically appointed to take the Gospel to the Jews, then finding him in Babylon (not Rome!) in the company of Jews is simple enough to grasp. Whether or not Peter ever ventured to Rome as church history would have us believe is therefore in question though it remains outside of the scope of this brief study. Nevertheless, we see that Peter is writing from Babylon, in the company of other Jews (the chosen) to fellow chosen ones who were also in the diaspora (that is, not living in Israel). Realizing that Peter is the apostle to the (elect) Jews and is writing from Babylon to other (elect) Jews facilitates the interpretation of the two epistles. In 1 Peter chapter two Peter writes concerning his Jewish (believing) brethren: “you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. But you are a chosen generation [note: the Greek word is genos (race) not genea (generation) see: NASB], a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him Who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.” (1 Pet 2:5, 9) These same words were used repeatedly in the Old Testament to describe the Jewish people:

Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. (Ex 19:5)

‘And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel. (Ex 19:6)

“For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth." (Deut 7:6)

“For you are a holy people to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples who are on the face of the earth." (Deut 14:2)

"For the LORD has chosen Jacob for Himself, Israel for His special treasure". (Ps 135:4)

He continues speaking to these Jewish pilgrims: “You once were not a people, but now you are God’s people. You were shown no mercy, but now you have received mercy". (1 Pet 2:10) The passage is taken from Hosea 1:9 where God, speaking to Israel, states “Then the LORD said: “Name him ‘Not My People’ (Lo-Ammi), because you are not my people and I am not your God.” (Hosea 1:9) Peter is demonstrating that their previous condition has been undone in Jesus Christ. This truth is given by God through Hosea “However, in the future the number of the people of Israel will be like the sand of the sea which can be neither measured nor numbered. Although it was said to them, “You are not my people,” it will be said to them, “You are children of the living God!” (Hos 1:10, see also Hos 2:23)

Thus when we read in 2 Peter: “Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble” (2 Pet 1:10) – we know that Peter is talking to Jews and that their election has nothing to do with salvation. Therefore, this is not a Calvinistic call for us to somehow make sure that we have been chosen to eternal life! It is rather a reminder to the chosen people to embrace the fact that they were elected, chosen by God to be His special treasure. However, their election is by no means an absolute guarantee that they will inherit eternal life. Paul corroborates this fact so clearly in 2 Timothy: “Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.” (2 Tim 2:10) Note well that Paul must endure for the elect, the Jews, so that they too might be saved. As we have seen, election has nothing to do with salvation. Furthermore, election is generally a term used of the Jews, who are of course, the chosen people. This is confirmed yet again in Romans 11, where Paul, who is speaking about the Jews, states “Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.” (Rom 11:28)

Part of the challenge of understanding Romans is to recognize that Paul is speaking to the believers in Rome who are both Jewish and Gentile (non-Jewish). We learn that from the way that he addresses his readers: “…the gospel of Christ … is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.” (Romans 1:16) “Jew and Greek” is a combination that he uses throughout the book, see for example Romans 2:9, 10; 10:12. Romans 2:17 Paul speaks specifically to the Jews “Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God. (Romans 2:17) Paul then asks what advantage the Jew has (Rom 3:1) and he answers his question with “Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God.” (Rom 3:2) In chapter four Paul speaks of Abraham who was their father according to the flesh “…Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh… (Rom 4:1 KJV). Thus, Paul was essentially describing Abraham as: “our genetic (birth) father.” The NET Bible confirms that translation “Abraham, our ancestor according to the flesh” (Rom 4:1 NET) Finally, Paul bridges the apparent polemic between the Jews and Greeks of the Roman church with the following conclusion “For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.” (Romans 10:12) Having seen that the book of Romans was written in large part to the elect, the Jews, (see also Acts 18:2 and Romans 16:3 concerning Roman Jews) as well as Gentiles, we can now see that the many uses of the word “elect” are not references to salvation, predestination etc. Rather they are reference to the Israelites (elected by God) “to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came…” (Rom 9:4-5) Therefore, Paul’s question “Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect?” (Rom 8:33) is not Calvinistic (predestined to eternal life) but is a reference to the elect Jews (see above: 1 Chr 16:13, Ps 33:12, Ps 105:6, Ps 105:43, Ps 135:4, Isa 45:4, Isa 65:9, Isa 65:22). This concept is consistent throughout the book. Romans 9-11 is the great defense of Scripture, par excellence, that God has not cast away His people. Paul begins the section by showing how God began with Abraham and then chose Isaac over Ishmael, and then Jacob over Esau. Speaking of the two nations in Rebecca’s womb, Paul says: “for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election [ekloge εκλογη] might stand, not of works but of Him who calls.” (Rom 9:11) The election has nothing to do with Calvinistic predestination but with God choosing Jacob rather than Esau to be the one who would receive the oracles of God etc.

Paul continues in Romans 11 “Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election [ekloge εκλογη] of grace.” (Rom 11:5) This was spoken of the encounter of Elijah and the 400 Israelite prophets of Baal. Just when Elijah thought all was lost, God informed him that He had reserved 7000 that had not followed the evil ways of Baal. And thus in like manner, most of Israel, who had been chosen, elected by God to be the conduit of blessing to the world, had rejected that special calling. This concords with what Jesus stated in Matthew 22:14 that “few [the Jews] are chosen” and that small group had for the most part rejected the special RSVP that God had sent to them to come to the wedding feast. Paul continues “What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect [ekloge εκλογη] have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.” (Rom 11:7) It must be noted that the word elect here is in fact feminine singular– demonstrating that it is not speaking of “the elect ones” (masculine plural eklektoi εκλεκτοι) but “election”. This means that in both Romans 11:5 and 11:7 the term is “election” – thus God’s action of selecting Abraham, Isaac, Jacob to the be the recipients of the promises (Rom 9:4-5). (The Wesley translation properly maintains the nuance of the noun “the election [ekloge εκλογη] hath obtained…” Rom 11:7 Wesley) The entire context of the elect and election has to do with Israel as evidenced by Paul’s following statement of how they, the Jews, “have not stumbled so as to fall… On the contrary, because of their stumbling, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make the Jews jealous.” (Romans 11:11) The biblical “election of grace” is not Calvin’s idea of God choosing some to eternal life and others to eternal damnation; it is rather God choosing the Jewish race, which was based purely on God’s grace and not their righteousness. Moses plainly stated that early in their national history: “It is not because of your righteousness or the uprightness of your heart that you go in to possess their land, but because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD your God drives them out from before you, and that He may fulfill the word which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” (Deut 9:5) That the election of grace is referring to God’s choosing of the fathers is further established in chapter eleven: “Now if their stumbling means riches for the world, and if their fall means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?” (Rom 11:12, 15) Israel, nationally speaking, rejected the invitation to come to the wedding feast when the Bridegroom came which thereby translated into riches for the Gentiles. However, the election of grace, that is God’s making promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and their seed, was an irrevocable call which is why Paul says about the unbelieving Jews: “Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” (Romans 11:28-29) Paul probably had Jeremiah 31:35-37, among other passages, in mind when speaking of the irrevocability of God’s promise. God had called Israel to himself and would never let them go completely. “God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.” (Rom 11:2) Peter also confirms that God foreknew the Israelites: “to the pilgrims of the Dispersion elect according to the foreknowledgeof God the Father” (1 Peter 1:2). God chose Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their descendants for a special purpose. His choosing them (election) had nothing to do with the Calvinistic idea of predestination to eternal life and eternal damnation. Though the Jews were elect, they were not automatically saved. They for the most part had rejected the invitation to the wedding feast and as such were blinded but they would be restored in the end.

Foreknowledge is a companion of election – but just like election, foreknowledge is a general reference to God having known the Israelites beforehand. Consider Paul’s definitive statement: “So I ask, God has not rejected his people, has he? Absolutely not! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew [proginosko προγινώσκω].” (Rom 11:1-2) The word foreknow, like election, has nothing to do with having predestined someone to eternal life or eternal damnation, as Calvin suggested. “Foreknow” and “foreknowledge” are simply a verb and noun of the same basic stem. Look at the following verses that demonstrate that knowing something ahead of time is not only possible for God but for man as well and it does not entail the Calvinistic concept whatsoever: “They knew me from the first [proginosko προγινώσκω], if they were willing to testify…” (Acts 26:5) “You therefore, beloved, since you know [this] beforehand [proginosko προγινώσκω], beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness…” (2 Pet 3:17) In both of the verses, the word is the same – foreknowing and neither is God’s foreknowledge; it is simply man’s. Certainly neither of those two examples carries any sense of Calvinistic predestination. Peter speaks of Jesus being foreknown before the beginning of the world and is just now made known “He was foreknown [proginosko προγινώσκω] before the foundation of the world but was manifested in these last times for your sake“ (1 Pet 1:20 NET) We witnessed before how Peter was addressing the Jews in his epistle whom he states to be elect according to God’s knowing beforehand: “…to the pilgrims of the Dispersion…elect according to the foreknowledge [prognosis πρόγνωσις] of God the Father…” Therefore, when we come to Romans 8 we ought not to jump to the Calvinistic definition, but to the God-foreknew-the-Jews definition. “And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew [proginosko προγινώσκω], He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined these He also called; whom He called…” (Rom 8:28-30) Even the act of calling we find spoken of concerning Israel in the book of Isaiah: “But now, thus says the LORD, who created you, O Jacob, And He who formed you, O Israel: Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by your name; You are Mine.” (Isa: 43:1; see also: 54:6; 1 Pet 1:15, 2:9, 5:10) Insofar as we Gentiles are grafted into the olive tree, then we share in the common purpose that God has for His elect, the Jews. “You, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,”(Romans 11:17)

There remain a number of verses that speak of the elect in the New Testament. In light of all that we have studied we can confidently know that they have nothing to do with the Calvinistic idea of predestined to salvation or damnation. Furthermore, in almost all of the cases, understanding them to be a reference to the Jews, God’s chosen people, is warranted. Let’s briefly consider those remaining. When Jesus spoke of God avenging “His own elect who cry out day and night to Him,” (Luke 18:7) He was talking about the Jews. “Rufus, chosen in the Lord,” (Rom 16:13) may be speaking of him being Jewish. This would make the most sense given that of the many other (obviously) believing brothers and sisters in the chapter, only Rufus is called elect. Why would Paul refer to only him as being elect, if the Calvinistic definition of election were true? Were the others not also heirs of eternal life? Understanding that elect/election is not salvation and is generally a reference to the Jews the passage makes complete sense. It must be noted that Priscilla and Aquila, from Rome, were also Jewish and yet were not called elect. Could it be that because Paul had nothing else to say about Rufus that he simply stated that he was chosen/elect in the Lord? Ephesians 1:4 ought to be viewed in light of the chosen people, Israel: “just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love," (Eph 1:4). We know that Paul traveled to Ephesus and there spent three months reasoning with the Jews in the synagogues (Acts 19:1-8). Thus, Ephesians seems to be once again, for “the Jew first and then the Gentile” paradigm. The mention of elect in Colossians is probably also a reference to Jews: “…as the elect of God, holy and beloved…” (Col 3:12) Colossae was in Asia (minor) and we have seen how Peter wrote to those in the dispersion who were in Asia. We also know that Paul first entered the local synagogue wherever he went in order to persuade the Jews first. Thus, his letter to the Colossians, located in Asia is most likely a letter written in the principle of “Jews first and after that the Gentiles.” This is confirmed by looking at the Jews present on the day of Pentecost: “And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another… how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs…” (Acts 2:5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11) The letter to the Thessalonians is also a letter to the Jews first and then the Gentiles. In Acts 17 we read “they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures… and some of them were persuaded and … joined Paul and Silas.” (Acts 17:1, 2, 4) With that in mind, we can see why Paul would say “we give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers… knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God." (1 Thes 1:2, 4) Once again, election is not Calvinistic in its definition, but Jewish. Likewise in Titus 1:1 Paul speaks of the faith of God’s elect which very possibly was a reference to the faith of the Jewish people. The Apostle John wrote to “the elect lady and her children…” (2 John 1:1) Though there is debate whether this is addressed to an individual woman and her immediate family or to the larger community is not material for this study. However, the term elect would again point to a reference to someone ethnically Jewish. The salutation also points to someone who is ethnically Jewish. “The children of your elect sister greet you.” (2 John 1:13) We cannot help but think back to Peter’s address to the elect Diaspora and how the elect-together-with-you in Babylon (that is, fellow Jews) greeted them. The final mention of the elect is found in Revelation 17 “These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.” (Rev 17:14) We have seen that the elect and chosen do not refer to the Calvinistic concept of election. We have also seen that elect in the New Testament almost always refers to Israelites. When the Lord Jesus comes back his entourage will absolutely include Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their seed. The question, however, is will Gentiles also be among that group? Given the fact that we Gentiles are grafted into Israel (Rom 11:24) and enjoy blessings that come with that, we can be confident that we will be in that number returning with the Lord.

We thus come to the end of our study having seen that elect and election have nothing to do with salvation, predestined to eternal life or death, nor any Calvinistic definition whatsoever. God elected priests, kings, disciples, Messiah, angels, and Jerusalem – all of which had nothing to do with being predestined to salvation. We also saw that elected/chosen was used of foolish things and of false gods (on man’s part) – again, the term had nothing to do with being predestined to salvation. We then came to the election of Israel and saw that in no less than eight verses in the Old Testament God declared Israel to be His elect! Thus, when we turned to the New Testament we could see that elect/election/chosen never was there as a reference to being predestined to salvation; in fact, nearly every reference of the elect was to Israel. We looked at the elect in the tribulation and saw that it was speaking of the Jews. We looked at the epistles of Peter and found the mention there of elect was to the Jews. We looked at the book of Romans and again, the Jews were the elect. We examined the remaining verses that spoke of election or God’s choosing and found that they more than likely refer to Israel as the elect. Finally, we considered the term foreknowledge/foreknow and found that it is not a salvific term but simply God or even man, knowing something in advance. With all that we have seen we must therefore conclude that elect is not salvation. The definition that Calvin gave “Of the eternal election, by which God has predestinated some to salvation and others to destruction,” is completely lacking in Scripture. Election has nothing to do with salvation or damnation. It is simply God or man making a choice. However, the term “the elect” is more often than not, a reference to Israel/Jews who are of course God’s chosen people. The New Testament references of the elect are never speaking one’s eternal destiny but of God having chosen someone for a particular purpose. In almost all of the New Testament references, the elect are in fact the Jews! It turns out that the New Testament is more Jewish-centered than most of us ever imagined! The epistles of Paul, James, Peter, Hebrews and John are written to the Jew first and then the Gentiles. Personally, I am quite satisfied that God’s plans center around Israel; we Gentile believers have been grafted in which is good enough for me.

" Other verses say that Jesus will not lose one of his own "

God knows those who are his own.

John 10
9. I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

10. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

14. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

17. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30. I and my Father are one.

John 17

1.These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2. As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.

8. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13. And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Where does faith come from? From us.

Wow. How did you miss Ephesians 2:8-10? Paul here seems to say exactly the opposite of what you propose.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."

In 2 Thess 1:3, Paul says that he thanks God always for their increasing faith. Now why would God be thanked for something that allegedly comes from man? Or how about Hebrews 12:2 where the author states that "Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith." Now what does that mean that Jesus is the author? Does that mean that man is the author? Does it please God when you claim credit for something that He did?

"There is no suggestion that God REALLY means “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found someone given such faith.”

Really? So you deny Luke 17:5 where the apostles asked the LORD to "increase our faith"? Or when the father of the mute child in Mark 9:24 asks God to "help my unbelief"? Were no questions raised in your mind as to why, out of billions of people inhabiting the antediluvian world, that Noah was the only one who found grace and faith? Since "grace" is unmerited favor, it could not possibly be a reward for conjuring up faith, but surely, as the Apostle Paul taught, faith is a gift from God - a product of His Grace.

Also, for you to hold on to this fallacy that man can manufacture his own faith, and therefore somehow make a "free will" choice to "accept" Christ or reject Him, you must categorically reject the entire Bible's depiction and description of carnal man.

In Romans, Paul says that "no one seeks after God" (3:11) which is just repeating Psalms 14:1-3; 53:1-4. Yet you say that man does seek after God. In contrast to the other Scripture contradicting your opinions of faith, in 8:8 Paul also says that "those in the flesh can not please God". So how is it that you can please God by your own faith when God says you can't ?

You say that you can conjure up your own faith, but how exactly can you have faith in the Gospel when Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 2:14 that the natural man can't understand the Scriptures since it is only spiritually discerned? I suppose you can be passionate about some belief system, but the Bible says it won't be the Gospel. Why? I suspect it is as Paul writes in 2 Cor 4:4-6 where the "god of this world" has blinded the minds let the Gospel shine on them. Exactly how does "free will" work out when Satan is blinding them so they can't understand the Gospel? Jesus Christ Himself in John 6:44-45 said that "No one can come to Me unless the Father draws Him". This statement makes absolutely no sense if there is Free Will, but makes total sense in the Predestination context. In 1 John 2:20,27, those who believe are told that we do so because "we have an anointing of the Holy Spirit". Later in 5:20 we read that it is God who gives us this understanding of the Gospel. So God is taking credit for your faith and knowledge in Him. Where is there room for you to boast about how you did this on your own free will? Doesn't John write in his Gospel that faith didn't come from the will of man or the will of the flesh but of God (1:12)? So when the Scriptures plainly and vehemently deny Free Will, who are you to say otherwise? (Eph 2:9)

The Scriptures also teach that the natural man hates God and hates the Law. (Ro 8:7) Jesus says that the whole world hates Him (Jn 7:7). Are you of this world or are you a space alien? To be a free willer you must also take full credit for something that God has claimed for Himself. In Col 1:21 we read that we all were alienated and enemies of God until HE reconciled us. Natural man loves sin and is glad when others sin (Ps 50:18; Hos 7:3; Mark 14:10-11; Rom 1:31)

The Scriptures say that the natural man is spiritually dead (Eph 2:1,5; 5:14) and in John 5:21, Jesus takes full credit for bringing about spiritual life. So how is it that you feel you can claim credit for raising yourself up from the dead?

In summary, the natural man hates God, hates righteousness, loves his sin, encourages other to do same, doesn't seek after God, can't please God, can't understand the Scriptures because both Satan and God have blinded the world outside of the Elect so that they can't believe, and would prefer to be crushed by rocks than bow to Christ (Rv 6:15-16).

But let me guess, none of this describes you.

Why do I like ketchup on my hamburger? Why? Why!

Why do I believe in political freedom? Why do I reject church-states?

We can talk about me, but lets look at scripture:

2And he was teaching them many things in parables, and in his teaching he said to them: 3”Listen! A sower went out to sow. 4And as he sowed, some seed fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured it. 5Other seed fell on rocky ground, where it did not have much soil, and immediately it sprang up, since it had no depth of soil. 6And when the sun rose, it was scorched, and since it had no root, it withered away. 7Other seed fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked it, and it yielded no grain. 8And other seeds fell into good soil and produced grain, growing up and increasing and yielding thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold.” 9And he said, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

...14 The sower sows the word. 15And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them. 16And these are the ones sown on rocky ground: the ones who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy. 17And they have no root in themselves, but endure for a while; then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away. 18And others are the ones sown among thorns. They are those who hear the word, 19but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. 20But those that were sown on the good soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold.” - Mark 4

Jesus does NOT say the word is only given to those destined by God to believe. He says the soil is different. Some hear, are ecstatic, but then fall away when persecution comes. Others pay more attention to the world - wealth and the praise of man.

We see that here:

“39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. 41 I do not receive glory from people. 42But I know that you do not have the love of God within you. 43I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. 44How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?” - John 5

In some cases, people believe because of something:

39Many Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me all that I ever did.” 40So when the Samaritans came to him, they asked him to stay with them, and he stayed there two days. 41And many more believed because of his word. 42They said to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is indeed the Savior of the world.”

Now some say this is boastful of me, because I’m claiming my goodness is what saves me. But John Calvin himself called that argument sophistry (a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of reasoning):

“That you believe in him whom he hath sent. What is the import of the word believe, we have explained under the Third Chapter. It ought always to be remembered that, in order to have a full perception of the power of faith, we must understand what Christ is, in whom we believe, and why he was given to us by the Father. It is idle sophistry, under the pretext of this passage, to maintain that we are justified by works, if faith justifies, because it is likewise called a work First, it is plain enough that Christ does not speak with strict accuracy, when he calls faith a work, just as Paul makes a comparison between the law of faith and the law of works, (Romans 3:27.) Secondly, when we affirm that men are not justified by works, we mean works by the merit of which men may obtain favor with God. Now faith brings nothing to God, but, on the contrary, places man before God as empty and poor, that he may be filled with Christ and with his grace. It is, therefore, if we may be allowed the expression, a passive work, to which no reward can be paid, and it bestows on man no other righteousness than that which he receives from Christ.”

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom34.xii.iv.html

A Calvinist is so wrapped up with a mechanical world that he cannot conceive of someone choosing to follow Jesus.

Why did I?

As a military brat in Iceland in the 7th grade, my best friend wanted to join the youth group at the Chapel for the incredibly spiritual reason that there were some great looking girls in it. He dragged me along. There I met kids who accepted me and loved me and who were honest in a way I had never even conceived of being. And when asked why they did what they did, they said it was because they didn’t like the way they had been living, and had asked Jesus to forgive them and change them. I knew that whatever it was they had, I wanted - so I asked Jesus to forgive me, and to change me, and to take over my life and do with it as he pleased. And God kept his promises...

Did that make me better than anyone else? How about hungrier. How about needier. How about more desperate in my life. How about more miserable.

But if you pray, “Jesus, I don’t like what I am. Forgive me and change me. Make me into what you want me to be.” - well, it is a powerful prayer. Not because of the human, but because of the power and person of God.

This lot certainly seems to think highly of human capability. It might be worthwhile, sometime, querying them on original sin. I heard one dispensational teacher (a minor guy involved in some way with LaHaye's pretrib group, of my personal acquaintance) flat out deny it. I don't think he knew that's what he was doing, but he did.

I have some respect for the traditional Premillennial Dispensationalists because I can chalk up the error to a hermeneutical disagreement or a foundational template mistake in having the Old Testament decode the new whereas Reformed teaching claims that New Testament decodes the Old.

What has clearly happened here is a complete jettisoning of the Scriptures and of any coherent set of doctrines by this recent cabal - hence why I distinguish them from Dispensationlists by the pejorative Dysfunctionalist.

I'm seeing a meme going on these days, both in the political arena and sadly, the theological realm whereas it is fashionable to take a traditional proposition, and turn it completely upside down. I have seen articles that claim that this nation's founding fathers were actually socialists who embraced "redistribution of the wealth". Like this parody of reasoning, claiming that "Calvinists are not Elect" is an exercise in what I consider deliberate and malicious deconstruction of the language and of our values. In the political article, the author had to redefine things like "taxation" and "wealth redistribution". The current regime also like to call "tax cuts" as "subsidies". So I believe it is the same sort of malevolent forces that wish to stir up strife, discord and chaos by having us doubt even the foundations of our faith by saying that God only favors and "Elects" Jews. That is just plain evil.

“How did you miss Ephesians 2:8-10? Paul here seems to say exactly the opposite of what you propose.”

Please see post #102:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2769777/posts?page=102#102

“In 2 Thess 1:3, Paul says that he thanks God always for their increasing faith.”

2 Thess 1: “3 We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers, as is right, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing. 4Therefore we ourselves boast about you in the churches of God for your steadfastness and faith in all your persecutions and in the afflictions that you are enduring.”

Notice it does not say what you said it did.

This happens again:

“So you deny Luke 17:5 where the apostles asked the LORD to “increase our faith”?”

“5 The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!” 6And the Lord said, “If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.”

Does Jesus reply, “Why yes, I’ll give you more faith!”

No. Jesus says the size of their faith - and note, it is THEIRS, something they HAVE - is not the issue, but where it is placed. They didn’t need more faith, but to place what faith they had in God.

“Or when the father of the mute child in Mark 9:24 asks God to “help my unbelief”?”

The passage:

21And Jesus asked his father, “How long has this been happening to him?” And he said, “From childhood. 22And it has often cast him into fire and into water, to destroy him. But if you can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.” 23And Jesus said to him, “’If you can’! All things are possible for one who believes.” 24Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, “I believe; help my unbelief!”

Again, Jesus does not say, “OK, I’ll give you more belief!” He accepts what belief the man has, for it isn’t the amount, but who it is placed in that matters.

“Since “grace” is unmerited favor, it could not possibly be a reward for conjuring up faith, but surely, as the Apostle Paul taught, faith is a gift from God - a product of His Grace.”

Apart from the fact that Paul wrote no such thing, you err in understanding what faith is. When someone believes the promise of God, that is, by definition, faith. Grace is not something we buy with faith, but faith is our response to God’s grace. God’s grace is given freely, to the just and unjust, and those who accept it (believe God means it) have faith.

“In Romans, Paul says that “no one seeks after God” (3:11) which is just repeating Psalms 14:1-3; 53:1-4. Yet you say that man does seek after God.”

I think it is a bit unfair of you to jump in on a thread of over 200 posts without bothering to read them before typing your replies. That statement is ridiculous to anyone who has read this thread.

So please go back and read what people have said before you make accusations. Frankly, I shouldn’t have to post the same comment 15 times on one thread for someone to know I’ve made it. I’m tired, and have no desire to debate someone who only reads his own posts.

This has been a good thread. Please take the time to read it. I may not agree with everyone I’ve pinged, but by and large they have made sincere and thoughtful points.

Covenants are an agreement between God and man. All but one were broken by man. There were a number of Covenants before and after the Abrahamic Covenant ending with the New and Everlasting Covenant. The very fact that the last covenant is called the New and Everlasting Covenant is affirmation that the previous covenants were not everlasting. However, the entire concept of covenants is incompatible with election and predestination.

NOT so. Obviously Abraham was elected and predestined to be the one that God made that still is in effect even to this day covenant. What is NOT understood or even considered is why and when there was an 'election' that took place. Even though Paul states plainly what and even when those who were chosen of the election. They earned it and there is not going to be any changing by any means to take that award from them. Ephesians 1:4 ---- from *before* the beginning of this flesh age.

Notice what Paul speak about Issac and Esau in Romans 9

verse 11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, "The elder shall serve the younger."

13 As it is written, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

17 For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, "Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew My power in thee, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth."

So it could be said that even Pharaoh was predestined so that His Name would be declared throughout all the earth."

For every positive there is a negative and the Heavenly Father controls both.

"Would God condemn men to everlasting torment for a decision that He made for them?"

That statement can only come from a person with a horrible understanding of God and zero understanding of the Gospel. Since the Fall, all men, without exception, are wicked from the womb (Ps 58;3), hating God, loving Sin, unwilling and unable to seek or even please God and incapable of understanding the Scriptures (1 Cor 2:14) because their minds are blinded by both Satan and God.

Thus everyone deserves Hell and without God's personal and specific intervention, would surely be condemned, not only by Adam's sin, but by each man's own sin. There isn't a decision about it. The default state of man is condemnation. There isn't a limbo where God sits around and waits for a "decision" to accept or reject and then, and only then sends man to heaven or hell based on that decision. Hell is what every single person deserves, decision or not. For you to not even see this foundational truth means that you are alien to the Gospel for you don't even understand why man is condemned or why he needs a savior.

What does the word "whoever" mean there?

You are asking the wrong question. The question is "why would anyone believe"? 1 Corinthians 2:14 says that you hate the Gospel and consider it foolish - fully incapable of understanding the Gospel. Now if you hate the Gospel, don't understand it, and consider it foolish, exactly what is it that you are believing in? Logically you can't embrace and have faith in that which you don't understand and despise. Yet here you claim that any belief or faith is sufficient to obligate God into saving you.

How is the above verse reconciled with the Calvinist belief that God creates some people for the express purpose of going to hell, and those people, contrary to Scripture like what is posted above, have no choice in accepting or rejecting Christ?

First of all, it isn't just a "Calvinist belief" it is plainly taught by Isaiah (29:16), Jeremiah (18) and Paul (Ro 9:14-20). What I find interesting is that you acknowledge fully that your interpretation is hostile to other passages in Scripture. You admit that your free will interpretation contradicts the Potter and Clay picture of God and mankind - yet you are not only comfortable with creating a contradiction, but you despise those who have reconciled these passages and remain faithful to the Doctrines of Grace.

Jesus told the Pharisees in John 10:26 that they can't believe BECAUSE they are not His sheep. We are told in the Scriptures that God is the one that dispenses faith to His elect (Ro 12:3) We are told that the world has been made blind to the Gospel. (Isa 6:10; John 12:40; 2 Cor 3:14; 4:4)

You boast that people are naturally knowledgeable about the Gospel but somehow you have completely missed John's teaching of the blinding in his Gospel (12:37-41) where he quotes from the prophet Isaiah "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them..

When you make it policy and template of yours to reject in totality the Bible's teaching of man's spiritual death and inability, then you will come to this foolishness of natural man having a complete and saving knowledge of Christ and the only thing left is to make a "choice".

What does the word "world" mean? Does that refer to the entire globe, or just a select few whom God has picked out?

That is truly a sophism. Later on in John's Gospel (15:18-19) he writes that the "world hates you and has hated Me" and "they were chosen out of this world". Can you harmonize those passages with that insipid definition of "world" that you hold? Of course not. You must define "world" differently to fit your anthropocentric soteriology. It has been explained to you countless times that "the world" is meant "out of every tribe and nation" (Rv 5:9; Acts 10:35; Col 1:6), so it must be willful ignorance for you to act as if we have no answer.

My guess is that you have never been taught proper theology and this explains why you don't understand nor accept the Gospel. There is still time. HarleyD is a good teacher.

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