Did a demon persuade me to put my trust in Jesus Christ for my salvation? NO.
Does a demon influence me to repent of my sins? NO.
Does a demon inspire me to try and help and serve and uplift my fellow men and women? NO.
Would a demon influence me to try and live according to the teachings of Jesus? NO.
I notice that those who are trying to shake your faith do not present their own (except in reciting safe generalizations), which is not unlike Obama criticizing Republican principles of governing without telling us what his principles of governing are (except in reciting safe generalizations designed to stir up animosity against his "enemies").
Those who continually attack Mormons as enemies of Christ are wasting the days of their probation. All Christians must eventually stand before the judgment seat of Christ regarding their service to Him or lack thereof. Better to do what one knows is pleasing to Him than only hoping that He will reward one for seeking to undermine the faith of others.
I have never been a member of the Mormon church. Since the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of the gospel, and secret temple rites such as baptism for the dead are not mentioned in the Book of Mormon, I believe that those are man-made ordinances that Christ does not approve of.
But I don't waste the days of my probation attacking Mormons, especially since I am convinced that the Book of Mormon itself is true.
Well hello Josh
are you still a member of the RLDS ???
Was Joseph Smith a polygamist?
Hi John,
Nice to hear from you. I know there are many non-Mormon Book of Mormon believers, but I’ve never come across any on FR until now.
Best regards,
Normandy
Ex-mormon who attends a Grace Chapel. I believe I've stated this numerous times.
But that's not really relevant now is it? Especially when it comes to rebutting the mormon claims/religion, since any of us who are not mormon belong to denominations that are an abomination and fell into apostasy.
One could argue that from the mormon perspective, we have no standing.
The BoM is unBiblical in the sense that Moroni Ch.10 exhorts prospects to seek "with a sincere heart" whether or not the BoM is true. Yet the Bible is clear, crysal clear in warning us about trusting our hearts. Jeremiah 17:9 and Proverbs 28:20 to name a couple.
Of course, since the Bible is held in lower disregard when compared to the Bible, I suppose those passages are not relevant.
Much of the discussion has centered around whether or not a spawn of satan is capable of deceiving using truth. We have posted numerous comments demonstrating how this is possible.
I note you have not addressed any of those topics, having instead, adopted a course of action trying to question the credibility of the posters, not the information. Which is of the course, (with Norm being an exception) the standard mormon response seen around here.
I notice that those who are trying to shake your faith do not present their own
Those who continually attack Mormons as enemies of Christ are wasting the days of their probation
- - - - - - - -
First, you have to be kidding. We often present our own, it isn’t in generalities either it is waht is important.
Secondly, this isn’t our probation, this is IT. And telling others of Salvation by grace and not works and of a false Gospel and a false Christ is not wasting our time in the least.
wasting the days of their probation
________________________________________
Say what ???
Well thats not Biblical for sure
You didnt learn much the last time you were here John..
Much of your cultish rhetoric is the same
But you have a couple of things going for you...
as we discussed last time...
You guys are the ones who own the “temple lot”
and you lot did at least denounce polygamy for ever and not just for a wee Brucie McConkie while
Of course you still havent moved over in the Christian column though..
Wait...
If the book of Mormon is true, you have to also believe in Joseph Smith as a Prophet of God, and if you also believe in Christ, you have to be Mormon...
To do otherwise negates your stance in its entirety...
So as an extension of you first point, what faith is it that you espouse if you believe the BOM is true and yet are not LDS or one if its derivatives...
Oh and for the record I have often shared my faith here, but for your easy reference I am an old school Methodist who has a penchant for the Orthodox faith as well...
“I notice that those who are trying to shake your faith do not present their own”
... A total and absolute false statement.
For years I have not shrank back from declaring the whole counsel of God forthrightly. Others have done the exact same thing.
Perhaps it troubles you to focus on the Lord Jesus Christ and His Gospel of Grace instead of a worldly focus on which Christian Church is the “right one”?
It matters not which specific building you worship in, but Who you worship.
The right one is the one that teaches the truth - regardless of denomination - that glorifies the True God and proclaims the Gospel of Grace that remains apart from works.
I am not trying to undermine Normandy’s faith. I am trying to point out as forcefully as possible that the object of his faith cannot save. I am trying to demonstrate to him that faith is only as good as the object you place it in... and in this case, Normandy has stated his faith is based on his feelings.
As a mormon cousin, I suspect you would say much the same John. And if so, you also believe in a false prophet who was proclaimed in court to be a con man and a false Christ who is a creature and not the creator of all.
ampu
I guess the FOLLOWING must be the parts of the BIBLE that MORMONs consider to be translated poorly:
Acts 17:18-19
18. A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
19. Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?Acts 18:11
So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.Romans 16:17
I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.1 Corinthians 4:17
For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.1 Corinthians 11:2
2. I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings, just as I passed them on to you.Ephesians 4:14-15
14. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
15. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.2 Thessalonians 3:6
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us.1 Timothy 1:3-4
3. As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
4. nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.1 Timothy 1:7
They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.1 Timothy 2:7
And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.1 Timothy 4:1-2
1. The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
2. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.1 Timothy 4:6
If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.1 Timothy 4:11
Command and teach these things.1 Timothy 6:3-5
3. If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
4. he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions
5. and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.2 Timothy 1:13
What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.2 Timothy 2:15-17
15. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
16. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
17. Their teaching will spread like gangrene.2 Timothy 3:16-17
16. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17. so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.2 Timothy 4:3-4
3. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
4. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.Titus 1:11
They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.Titus 2:1
You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.Titus 2:15
These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.Hebrews 13:9
Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.2 Peter 2:1-3
1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.2 John 1:10
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.
Well Satan; it's not every day I get to reply directly to you; as it is usually one of your expendable minions that is sent into battle.
You DO know your fate; don't you?
You time is SHORT: is THAT why you are trying SO hard to steer SO many into YOUR hell?
The place CREATED for the DEVIL and his ANGELS??
Even if you don't embrace the belief of becoming a god, what do you do with Joseph Smith's King Follett sermon in 1844 about how his listeners needed to learn about becoming gods themselves?
Only a false prophet would teach that, John. And if he wasn't reliable to preach the restorationist gospel @ an 1844 funeral service, than nothing that came only thru him is reliable.
Tell you what, John...if that's true, then take your scissors & go cut out Jude 3 (contending for the faith once delivered to all the saints) & toss it in the trash can.
Oh, and don't stop there...cut out other passages like Titus 1:9: He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
Oh, and don't stop there...cut out those get-in-the-way-of-John's-personal-theology like the Acts synagogue passages that have first Paul, and then Apollos refuting/arguing/reasoning with the Jews. [see Acts 17 & 18]
Then you can move on to 2 Cor. 10:3-5, etc.
All Christians must eventually stand before the judgment seat of Christ regarding their service to Him or lack thereof. Better to do what one knows is pleasing to Him than only hoping that He will reward one for seeking to undermine the faith of others.
Undermining faith in an idol -- a false god -- is a good thing, John.
Do you forget that Joseph Smith taught there are gods many?
I will preach on the plurality of Gods...I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years. (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 474, 1844)
To "undermine" faith in a low-level "god" is a good thing, John. Our faith is to rest in the Ultimate God who was before all -- the "I AM" of eternity past. The one who was never "organized" but always was.
Just because the restorationists moved into a "one-god" mode doesn't erase the Salt Lake D&C-version references to "gods" Smith made, n or his other teachings. Even when Smith was still in Missouri, in a so-called "revelation" he made in Far West, Missouri on July 18, 1838, he wrote: "According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was..." (D&C 121:32, Utah version). And then, of course, was the reference to then they shall be gods when Joseph tried to convince his wife Emma to accept other wives in 1843 (D&C 132).