Nonsense. We just need better relationships with sharks.
Posted on 07/25/2011 10:34:37 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
I don't know if I'd accept candy from a 20 foot shark...
Nonsense. We just need better relationships with sharks.
I pray that too Els.
Youre an awesome woman of God [Nana]
You’ll say that about anyone... [Elsie]
- - - - - -
Don’t worry, els, you are an awesome woman of God too. ;)
Hmm, where were you when I was negotiating the last manufacturing contract? :)
Post for home viewing
Look ma, I can has a new religion.
Ping to home post
You'll say that about anyone...
I didn't know that you are an awesome woman of God, Elsie...
and then there was the one that got struck by lightning and was all black
:)
2/3’s Beast!
But the Lamanite curse was removed and now it’s all gold and delightsome again.
Bradbury called.
He wants his number back.
No comment; just in the right place at the right time...
http://www.timrusstribute.com/Art%20Police.htm
Yes its miraculous what a bit of soap and water can do
:)
A careful study of The Testimony of Eight Witnesses shows that these men who handled and hefted the plates and saw the engravings thereon would notice that they did not state that the plates were made of gold, only that they "have the appearance of gold". This suggests that they were either composed of another metal or alloy plated with gold, or were composed of an alloy of gold.
That they were definitely not made of solid gold is proven in two ways: (1) As related in Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses by Richard Lloyd Anderson, William Smith, in an 1883 book, wrote: "I was permitted to lift them as they laid in a pillowcase, but not to see them, as it was contrary to the commands he had received. They weighed about 60 lbs. according to the best of my judgment." That would be much too light for plates of solid gold in the dimensions described by Joseph Smith and others. (2) In the 1879 Saints' Herald interview of the former Emma Smith, she stated: "The plates often lay on the table without any attempt at concealment, wrapped in a small linen table cloth, which I had given him to fold them in. I once felt the plates as they thus lay on the table, tracing their outline and shape. They seemed to be pliable like thick paper, and would rustle with a metallic sound when the edges were moved by the thumb, as one does sometimes thumb the edges of a book." Sheets of pure gold, if bent, would not spring back flat again.
There are many alloys of copper. In an 1884 sermon, William Smith, who was not among the eight who saw the plates, stated: "When the plates were brought in they were wrapped up in a tow frock. My father then put them into a pillow case. Father said, 'What, Joseph, can we not see them?' 'No. I was disobedient the first time, but I intend to be faithful this time. For I was forbidden to show them until they are translated, but you can feel them.' We handled them and could tell what they were. They were not quite so large as this Bible. Could tell whether they were round or square. Could raise the leaves this way (raising a few leaves of the Bible before him). One could easily tell that they were not a stone, hewn out to deceive, or even a block of wood. Being a mixture of gold and copper, they were heavier than stone, and very much heavier than wood."
I'd like to know where William got the information about the "mixture of copper and gold", and whether "mixture" meant a copper-gold alloy, or copper or some copper-based alloy plated with gold. In any case, "435 pounds" presumes a metal composition that is not supported by the historical evidence available. In other words, "435 pounds" is urban legend, designed to enable ignorant mockery.
John, this is overall and example of begging the question. I still wait to find out where the advanced metallurgy necessary to make a copper-gold alloy existed - especially if plating is involved - something not encountered until centuries later.
Regarding this nonsense about the 8 witnesses - only three of the eight witnesses made separate statements that they had handled the plates. They were Joseph's two brothers, Hyrum and Samuel, and John Whitmer.
Whitmer's statement that "... they were shown to me by a supernatural power" (History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 307). IE a vision. Further John, the 8 were not shown all together, but in smaller groups of 4. All the witnesses had close ties to Joseph and his family. Some like Martin Harris had a substantial financial investment in the success of the Book of Mormon (can you say filthy lucre). Many of the witnesses ended up leaving the church and following other leaders and religions such as James Strang, the Shakers, Methodists, etc. By 1847 not a single one of the surviving eleven witnesses was part of the LDS Church.
Actions belay the reality here John. IF they saw REAL plates - there is absolutely no reason for them to have left the mormon church as they did. Their 'walk' repudiated their 'talk'.
All of the witnesses, except for Oliver Cowdery, left mormonism and believed Strang's claim of being a prophet by merely reading his letter. How much credibility can we give these people when they accept someone so easily as a prophet who later turns out to be a fraud?
finally John, just for grins and giggles, if copper only, we are still talking of something weighing around 230 pounds. That is still a significant feat to run through the forest with even that much weight in his arms like a 'deer'. Start adding gold and the weight increases quickly.
I’m still waiting for the FULLNESS to be shown.
John you can spin all you wish but the facts are that Joseph Smith was a charlatan, a flim flam man, a pedophile, a liar, a thief, a polygamist, possible a murder, he was a cheat, he tried to over throw the government, he was a fake general, he was a traitor to the USA, and a dozen other descriptions, the real question is why do you so desperately want to hang your eternal soul on this man. Is the draw of “you to can be a god” that great?
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