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The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon
LDS.org ^ | August 1988 | Carlos E. Asay

Posted on 07/25/2011 10:34:37 AM PDT by greyfoxx39

The Companionship of the Holy Ghost

By Elder Carlos E. Asay

Of the First Quorum of the Seventy

For many unmarried Latter-day Saints, particularly some of the single sisters, courtship and eternal companionship are unrealized dreams. You long for them, you know eternal companionship is a crucial part of the gospel, and yet you feel frustrated because no worthy partner is available.

It is tempting to wish that I could match you with perfect companions in an instant and send you off for the eternities in joyful marriages. But such a solution would be satanic. Satan, you will remember, wanted to dictate the courses of our lives, doing away with our testing and choosing, thus frustrating our Father’s plan and stopping our progress.

Your courtship with a mortal companion is not something you can dictate or plan by yourself. But there is a companionship of great and eternal significance over which you do have full and complete control. It is a companionship that can be obtained and enjoyed by all, regardless of age or sex. It is a companionship that heals loneliness, motivates to excellence, and gives meaning to life. It is the companionship of one of the members of the Godhead—the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, the Revelator, the Sanctifier, the Spirit of the Lord. It is a companionship which will assure you that you’re not alone, and will never be alone.

Mortal companionships—one person with another—are important and essential, and if they are cemented by love and mutual respect, they can become heavenly in nature and bring unspeakable joy. Any such companionship, however, becomes vacant and somewhat meaningless without the influence of the Holy Ghost. No mortal companionship ever overshadowed or surpassed in importance the binding of a person to the Spirit of the Lord.

“Prayed for That Which They Most Desired”

It is significant that while Christ taught and prayed with the Nephites, “they did pray for that which they most desired; and they desired that the Holy Ghost should be given unto them.” (3 Ne. 19:9.) As Church members, we have completed the necessary steps of faith, repentance, and baptism and have had authorized hands placed on our heads to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. But just as love between friends or companions must be cultivated and nourished like a tender plant, so likewise must a companionship with the Holy Spirit be cultivated.

When I was a young man I fell in love with a beautiful girl. More than anything in the world, I wanted to receive her love and eternal companionship. I therefore behaved my best, spoke my best, and gave my best as I courted her and sought to gain her favor. Even after she was promised to me, I recognized the need to continue the courting. My desire was, and still is, to please her and to avoid any offense. She is my inspiration, my motivation to live on a high and noble level.

The companionship of the Holy Ghost is cultivated in much the same manner. To obtain his influence and companionship, we must be our best; we must be worthy of his presence. I see five things we must do to attract and retain the Holy Spirit.

1. We must keep our bodies clean.

We must not pollute our mortal tabernacles in any way. We must live the Word of Wisdom; we must not misuse our powers of procreation; we must do whatever is possible to avoid disease or other enemies of our physical bodies. “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.” (1 Cor. 3:16–17.)

2. We must keep our minds clean.

We must guard against all suggestive and carnal notions and other satanic influences. From the Doctrine and Covenants, we receive this advice and promise: “Let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven. The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion.” (D&C 121:45–46.)

Few things are more repulsive than evil minds and the filth they produce. Can one hope to enjoy the companionship of the Holy Spirit when one is double-minded—that, when his mind shares time with the evil one? I think not.

3. We must exercise faith and reserve a place in our hearts for the Holy Spirit.

Manifestations of the Spirit of God, we are told, are forfeited in the absence of faith. Moroni spoke openly of the gifts of the Spirit, including healing and tongues, then cautioned: “All these gifts of which I have spoken, which are spiritual, never will be done away, even as long as the world shall stand, only according to the unbelief of the children of men.” (Moro. 10:19.)

It is most important that we understand “that the Holy Ghost may have place in [our] hearts” only when we exercise faith in Christ. (Moro. 7:32.) How can we be acceptable to the Holy Ghost without recognizing and acknowledging those whom he represents—those of whom he testifies and bears witness? Loving and seeking the Christlike life is true worship—the kind of worship that opens our lives to the power of the Holy Ghost.

4. We must avoid all iniquity, all manner of wickedness.

As stated previously, gifts of the Lord cease when faith is missing. The same applies, and the problem is compounded, when iniquity is present.

Alma said, “No unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven.” (Alma 11:37.) Similarly, no unclean person can achieve a lasting relationship with the Spirit of God.

5. We must pray, feast upon the words of Christ, and walk uprightly before God.

The Spirit of the Lord teaches and entices a man to pray. (See 2 Ne. 32:8–9.) The words of Christ help us to understand who the Holy Spirit is and how he may be invited into our presence. (See 2 Ne. 32:1–3.) The Spirit of God persuades men to do good and to believe in Christ. (See Ether 4:11–12; Moro. 7:16–17.) So prayer, scripture study, and righteous living are musts.

The skeptic or gospel novice might inquire: “Why seek the Holy Ghost? Why strive for his companionship? What is in it for me?” Answers to these questions are abundant if we are receptive to the testimonies of those who know and have associated with the Spirit of the Lord. Some of these testimonies help to answer questions about the value of association with the Holy Ghost.

Would you like to possess perfect foresight, perfected powers to anticipate what to do under certain circumstances? If so, you must do as Nephi directed: “Enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, [for] it will show unto you all things what ye should do.” (2 Ne. 32:5.)

“Would You Like the Power of Discernment?”

Would you like to have powers of discernment—the power to identify truth? If so, you must read the word of God, acknowledge God’s Goodness, ponder, and ask of God. Through doing this, Moroni testifies, “By the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.” (Moro. 10:5.)

While I was a mission president in Texas, I was informed that a particular missionary had lost his testimony and wanted to go home. Some checking disclosed that doubts of the divinity of his call had been planted in the young man’s mind by an investigator. In an interview with the so-called investigator, I experienced special powers of discernment that enabled me to know that the man was a minister of another faith, posing as a college student and pretending to be an honest investigator of Mormonism. Confronted with the knowledge that had been revealed to me, he became confused and admitted his fraud. With the deceiver out of the way and the truth known, the missionary stayed and completed an honorable mission.

On one occasion, a missionary in the final week of his mission reminded me that I had given him clearance two years previously to serve a mission. The clearance had been extended with some reservations on my part because he had indulged in a number of transgressions before his mission. He said: “Elder Asay, you allowed me to go into the field after due repentance and after I promised that I would be strictly obedient and would work diligently. I can assure you that I have worked hard and have obeyed every rule.” Then he said something very significant. “I feel that my sins have been forgiven. I feel perfectly clean.” He had been cleansed through selfless service and by developing a close association with the Holy Spirit. He had been through the refiner’s fire, and impurities had been burned away.

“Would You Like to Hear Revelations from God?”

Would you like to have the power to hear, feel, and know the revelations of God? Through the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Lord promised, “I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost. … This is the spirit of revelation.” (D&C 8:2–3.)

I have heard President Marion G. Romney, at the conclusion of his testimony in a temple meeting, say something like this: “You may not have needed to hear what I have said today and you probably didn’t learn anything new. However, I learned something while speaking and I needed to hear these words.” This is a beautiful and open acknowledgment of the influence of the Holy Spirit.

Would you like to enjoy spiritual gifts—powers to heal, be healed, speak in tongues, for example? If so, give heed to the prophet Moroni’s words: “And all these gifts come by the Spirit of Christ; and they come unto every man severally, according as he will.” (Moro. 10:17.)

Would you like convincing powers of speech—the power to speak like an angel? If so, note Nephi’s question, “Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels?” (2 Ne. 32:2.)

Thirty years ago, while I served as a missionary in the Near East, my companion and I were assigned to visit a branch that had been torn apart by division and apostasy. We approached our assignment humbly and prayerfully. A crucial meeting was held involving the disaffected parties. My companion was selected to preach the sermon that we hoped would bring everyone together again. After we had fasted and prayed earnestly, he stood with confidence and worked the miracle. He spoke with the tongue of an angel. That young, inexperienced elder’s words healed wounds festering in the hearts of men much older than he, prompted confessions, and literally saved a branch of the Church.

“Would You Like the Power to Resist Temptation?”

Would you like the power to ward off and resist temptation? If so, do as Alma and Paul suggested: “Pray continually, … and thus be led by the Holy Spirit.” (Alma 13:28.)

Would you like to obtain perfect peace and assurance in all that you do? If so, make the Holy Ghost your companion and you, too, may receive the type of assurance given Nephi and Lehi: “Peace, peace be unto you, because of your faith in my Well Beloved, who was from the foundation of the world.” (Hel. 5:47.)

Finally, would you like the power to perform beyond your natural abilities? Would you like the help of unseen powers in all that you do? I refer to the power to speak with convincing authority—even the power to receive promptings that enable you to say things that you had not planned. I speak of the power to receive impressions, which, if heeded, bring blessings to you and others.

Mortal men and women are endowed with marvelous abilities and potential. But however great these mortal powers may be, they are only a shadow of those powers that can be claimed through a linkage with the Holy Spirit.

I hope you do not say to yourself that these words about a companionship with the Spirit are for someone else, not you. God is no respecter of persons. His blessings and gifts are not reserved for a precious few. It matters not whether you are an Apostle or a deacon, a Relief Society officer or a Primary teacher. All of us have the promise of gifts of the Spirit if we place ourselves in a position to claim them.

If your introduction to this divine companion seems incomplete, review your baptism and confirmation and determine whether you have really received him as you were commanded to do. Pay careful attention to your physical cleanliness, the cleanliness of your thoughts, the extent of your faith in Christ, your inclination to avoid all manner of sin, and your prayer and study habits.

It is wise from time to time to do some reflective thinking and determine whether you really know the Holy Ghost. Pause long enough to measure your acquaintance with spiritual gifts and powers. See whether foresight, discernment, sanctification, revelation, spiritual gifts, angelic speech, peace of assurance, and attendant blessings are evident in your life. Determine whether spiritual experiences are sprinkled generously throughout your daily living. And, if you find yourself wanting, have the courage to change and place your life in order.

If you will do these things, you need never be alone, for you will have the most important companion of all—the Holy Ghost.



TOPICS: General Discusssion; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: antichristian; antimormonfatwa; antimormonhatred; antimormonjihad; antimormonrant; beck; bitterformermormon; glennbeck; inman; mormoaner; mormon; religiousbigotry; romney; zealot
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To: MarkBsnr

Is that photoshopped? Or was it raining sharks that day?


401 posted on 08/02/2011 4:23:45 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut
John, the vowel markings in Hebrew were created in the early middle ages and therefore would not have been an issue for the Book of Mormon ‘authors’.

Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ taught, before His Atonement for our sins: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

After His Atonement for our sins, Jesus Christ taught the Nephites in the land Bountiful: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, One jot or one tittle hath not passed from the from the law, but in me it hath all been fulfilled.

Thus, both the people in Palestine and the people at Boutiful in Mesoamerica knew what jots and tittles were. Yes, they would have been an issue for Book of Mormon authors.

I think what happened is this. All Hebrew scriptures were first written with full vowel markings. As they were accepted by common consent into the expanding canon of scripture, those who recited them would often do so from memory. Because the proper vocalizations were known, copying the Holy Scriptures using consonants only was a short cut that caused no problems until reciters became scarce. Improper vocalizations of the consonants-only copies resulted in various vocalizations, resulting in disputes over which words were intended. Therefore, in the Middle Ages, if you are correct, vowel markings were restored to help stop the spread of improper vocalizations.

Secondly, the wide strokes are not part of ancient Hebrew, again another medieval construction.

But since the people in Palestine and the people at Boutiful in Mesoamerica knew what jots and tittles were, written Hebrew, for ease in reading, would have employed a mixture of wider and narrower strokes.

And what is the point in writing in a language no one could understand?

Moroni explained that:
"And now behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge in the characters, which are called among us reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech. And if our plates had been suffiently large, we should have written in the Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in out record. But the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also that none other people knoweth our language, and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof."

402 posted on 08/02/2011 4:45:21 PM PDT by John McDonnell
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To: John McDonnell; colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; svcw; Zakeet; Tennessee Nana; ...
The Book of Mormon plainly states that no other people can read their reformed Egyptian caractors, which means that Book of Mormon authors and scribes invented reformed Egyptian specifically for their recording on plates. They would obviously create a caractor set that would not, as in Hebrew, have various widths of stroke nor a system of tittles and other time-consuming minute markings.

OMG!!

rotfl

403 posted on 08/02/2011 5:02:06 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (My God can't be bribed by money or good works or bound by manmade "covenants". Romney's can.)
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To: John McDonnell; reaganaut
one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

John, please do some more detailed research before embarrassing yourself further. The "jot" (Hebrew word "Yodh") is the 10th letter of the Hebrew alphabet. It is not a vowel mark John.

Same goes for tittle. Tittle is used by Greek grammarians of the accents and diacritical points. It means the little lines or projections by which the Hebrew letters differ from each other. One example would be the difference between the letter L and I. The difference is only one small mark.

Again, it is not a vowel mark. Therefore the rest of your argument is invalid.

But since the people in Palestine and the people at Boutiful in Mesoamerica knew what jots and tittles were, written Hebrew, for ease in reading, would have employed a mixture of wider and narrower strokes.

John, what peer reviewed papers/journals show the use of the jot and tittle as well as the rest of the hebrew alphabet - or even egypt hieroglyphics - in central america. To save you time you will not find such, because it doesn't exist. So there is absolutely NO way for you to know what mesoamericans 'knew' in that time frame John - because the languages at the time were not related to either hebrew or egyptian.

404 posted on 08/02/2011 5:06:57 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: greyfoxx39
The more they retreat into these fantasies, the more their brains and souls are depleted

If Romney is nominated the mainstream media enemies of America in America will dig the source for this fantasy out and splay it all over TV and print.

405 posted on 08/02/2011 5:08:11 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN
If Romney is nominated the mainstream media enemies of America in America will dig the source for this fantasy out and splay it all over TV and print.

Which is what we have been saying for the past five years.

The Book of Mormon "Eyewitnesses"

“'Emma said she sat at the same table with Joseph, writing as he dictated, with nothing between them, and the plates wrapped in a linen cloth on the table. When Cowdery took up the job of scribe, he and Joseph translated in the same room where Emma was working. Joseph looked into the seer stone, and the plates lay covered on the table.' (Bushman, 'Rough Stone Rolling,' p.71).

"Emma said she 'felt the plates as they lay on a table' wrapped in a linen tablecloth. She said the plates were pliable like thick paper and that they “would rustle with a metallic sound when the edges were moved by the thumb” (Bushman, 'Rough Stone Rolling,' p. 70). If that is true, then it is certain that the plates were not made of gold since soft metal pages made of gold would not make such a sound."

When this kind of stuff starts hitting the media, day after day....Romney will be seen as an idiot for believing it.

406 posted on 08/02/2011 5:17:03 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (My God can't be bribed by money or good works or bound by manmade "covenants". Romney's can.)
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To: MarkBsnr

Landshark ... candygram.


407 posted on 08/02/2011 5:21:51 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: reaganaut
Is that photoshopped? Or was it raining sharks that day?

I believe that it is actually a rooftop statue.

408 posted on 08/02/2011 5:23:20 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: reaganaut
Is that photoshopped? Or was it raining sharks that day?

I believe that it is actually a rooftop statue.

409 posted on 08/02/2011 5:23:23 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: greyfoxx39
Um, Romney and every other 'melchizedek priest in mormonism will be revealed for the idiots they are for believing this Smithian/Young scam. Christian Americans will not want this nation run by such outlandish fairytale followers
410 posted on 08/02/2011 5:26:56 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: MarkBsnr; reaganaut
gonna need a bigger house


411 posted on 08/02/2011 5:28:06 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: greyfoxx39

So long as I knew nothing about mormonism, I had respect for Orrin Hatch. Learning so much about the blasphemies and heresies at the heart of mormonism, I no longer have any respect for him or any other high priest in mormonism.


412 posted on 08/02/2011 5:28:30 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: MarkBsnr

Well, if you look closely, it is no longer a roof ‘top’ statue since it has broken through the roof and entered the attic region.


413 posted on 08/02/2011 5:32:21 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: John McDonnell; Godzilla
John, this is why I asked you if you had any language experience.

Godzilla is correct in his explanation of the meaning of 'jot or tittle' but I am going to take the lesson a bit further.

Quoting Matthew 5:18 one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

John, the phrase 'jot or tittle' came into English via William Tyndale's translation of the Bible in 1526. From there it became part of the KJV, which is evidence that the KJV translators used Tyndale's translation in their work. Tyndale, in his translation, did not opt for a literal translation but rather one that his readers (learned men) would understand. It is the 16th century equivalent of a modern English translation versus a literal translation.

The actual Greek translation of Matthew 5:18 is 'not one iota [greek letter] or a-horning' rather than 'jot or tittle'. IOW, Jesus never used the phrase 'jot or tittle', nor would have anyone of the time, for the words were not invented yet. http://www.qbible.com/greek-new-testament/matthew/5.html

Furthermore, the use of the phrase in the BoM is proof that it is not what it purports to be, since the phrase in question did not exist at the time.

I also verified Matthew 5:18 in my JST published by Herald House and it also maintains the phrase 'jot or tittle' which is proof that Smith did not receive the translation via revelation or the phrase would have been changed to a 'correct translation'.

Thus, both the people in Palestine and the people at Boutiful in Mesoamerica knew what jots and tittles were.

Sorry, John but they wouldn't have since the terms were not invented yet.

I think what happened is this. All Hebrew scriptures were first written with full vowel markings.

Which is why a basic knowledge of orthography is important. Languages do not 'lose' things like vowel markings. Furthermore tens of thousands of archeological remains and texts prove you wrong. Your theory, while amusing,is completely bogus.

But since the people in Palestine and the people at Boutiful in Mesoamerica knew what jots and tittles were, written Hebrew, for ease in reading, would have employed a mixture of wider and narrower strokes.

John, there are NO EXAMPLES of wide strokes in Hebrew prior to the Middle ages. ALL texts from the time period in question, and later, use narrow marks. A quick glance at any of the DSS texts will prove that. You seem to be grasping at straws.

John, archeology, orthography, textual analysis and the texts themselves all prove that the whole idea of a need or existence of 'reformed Egyptian' in lieu of Hebrew is not only false but ludicrous.

At the time Smith wrote the BoM, Egyptian was just being able to be translated a half a world away, which he would have been unfamiliar with, hence the idea of 'reformed Egyptian'. His knowledge of Greek and Hebrew was non-existent and both prove the Book of Mormon completely false.

414 posted on 08/02/2011 5:56:36 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: MHGinTN

X


415 posted on 08/02/2011 5:58:26 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (This message carfully checkd to misteakes by powerful softwhere)
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To: Godzilla

I love it when I can put my training to use. :)


416 posted on 08/02/2011 5:59:49 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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To: Godzilla
John, please do some more detailed research before embarrassing yourself further. The "jot" (Hebrew word "Yodh") is the 10th letter of the Hebrew alphabet. It is not a vowel mark John.

Same goes for tittle. Tittle is used by Greek grammarians of the accents and diacritical points. It means the little lines or projections by which the Hebrew letters differ from each other. One example would be the difference between the letter L and I. The difference is only one small mark.

Again, it is not a vowel mark. Therefore the rest of your argument is invalid.

"Jot and tittle" has a meaning going beyond the meaning of its individual words. It is an expression that means "the least part of". The NIV translates the phrase, "not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen." Hebrew vowel markings were sometimes not even written. Yet not writing them has lead to false vocalizations, which has resulted in changes in word meanings.

Even though vowel markings can be less than "the smallest letter" and "the least stroke of a pen", they can determine whether or not the meaning of a scriptural passage can become corrupted.

Therefore, when Jesus referred to the least part of the law and the prophets, which He Himself inspired to be written with their full vowel markings included for clarity, He had to be referring to vowel markings as well.

Are you actually suggesting that Hebrew writing, which can be misinterpreted when bereft of vowel markings, NEVER made use of them until the Middle Ages? If that is your position, please confirm it.

417 posted on 08/02/2011 6:03:25 PM PDT by John McDonnell
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To: John McDonnell

You exude airs like the college professor who teaches his students that the Ohio Decalogue stones are proof of Israelites on this continent 2000 years ago. His little lecture is available on the Internet and has been thoroughly debunked, but he continues to teach the lies to his ignorant students. Sorry, little john, we are not so ignorant as to ignore your foolishness. And just so you realize we do read your drivel before posting, hw about you provide proof that Jesus instruct someone to write down what you characterize. You see, john, when God inspired the recording of the Law and Prophets, He was not acting as Jesus, He was acting as God The Father Almighty, a part of the Trinity. Your false religion separates the Trinity into three separate gods. So your duplicitous deceit is not going to float when you assert ‘when Jesus referred to the least part of the law and the prophets, which He Himself inspired to be written with their full vowel markings’. You cult does not teach that Jesus inspired the writing, it teaches that before god sired the mormonism jesus, the law and prophets were written. When you practice to deceive, john, you must keep all your lies in order or be revealed for what you’re doing, deceiving. Sadly, you’re most obviously deceiving yourself.


418 posted on 08/02/2011 6:13:26 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: John McDonnell; reaganaut
John, please read reaganaut to you

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2753623/posts?page=414#414

The NIV translates the phrase, "not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen."

How the NIV translates it is not how it is in the Greek John - that is the deciding point.

Hebrew vowel markings were sometimes not even written.

John, I consider you to be intelligent. This statement fractures that belief to the core. If the marking is not written, it is not a marking John. We are not playing with invisible ink here.

Even though vowel markings can be less than "the smallest letter" and "the least stroke of a pen", they can determine whether or not the meaning of a scriptural passage can become corrupted.

JOhn, you made the claim that jots and tittles were vowel marks. Now you are trying to obfuscate the issue. Particularly when smithian translation techniques consisted of an agate pebble in a hat, to some inspiration for the JST.

Therefore, when Jesus referred to the least part of the law and the prophets, which He Himself inspired to be written with their full vowel markings included for clarity, He had to be referring to vowel markings as well.

As already proven out - those are a later addition. Your train of logic derailed long ago John. Making a big assumption with absolutely no or even false evidence John.

Are you actually suggesting that Hebrew writing, which can be misinterpreted when bereft of vowel markings, NEVER made use of them until the Middle Ages?

It is not just my "position" John, but facts of life from linguists. Vowel markings were not started until AD 600, when the masorites started adding marks because the scattering of the Jews and loss of the close oral traditions were causing the language to be lost.

Again, John, please research before you further ruin what little credibility you have left on this subject.

419 posted on 08/02/2011 6:28:06 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: John McDonnell; Godzilla

Hebrew vowel markings were sometimes not even written. Yet not writing them has lead to false vocalizations, which has resulted in changes in word meanings.

Even though vowel markings can be less than “the smallest letter” and “the least stroke of a pen”, they can determine whether or not the meaning of a scriptural passage can become corrupted.

- - - - - -
That is incorrect. The Masorites added the vowel markings because of the diaspora in the Middle ages and the need to clarify pronunciation when reading aloud because of the difficulty in passing it on orally.

However, anyone at the time of Christ and before, would have known the words without vowel markings and anyone with a knowledge of Hebrew beyond first year, can read it correctly without the vowel markings. Vowel markings or lack thereof does not change the meanings of the words in Hebrew. As I posted above, one of our finals was a translation without markings. Hebrew structure is such that a particular form of the word (sans vowels) is recognizable and carries a certain meaning. So your claim that an absence of vowels would have led to meaning changes is errant.

Vowel additions or deletions would not affect the meaning or translation of scripture at all. Modern Hebrew often does not contain the vowel markings yet does not lead to misinterpretation at all.

And yes, Hebrew never had vowel marking until the middle ages and vowels do not affect word meanings or translation. That is fact.


420 posted on 08/02/2011 7:17:36 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost, but now am found; was blind but now I see")
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