Site Of Mountain Meadows Massacre Recognized [First 9/11 American terrorist attack - 1857]

4029TV.com (Ft. Smith, AR Rogers, AR) ^ | July 13, 2011

[Colofornian]

The Mormons of that time were also, like the Cheyennes, in a war for what they viewed as their own survival.

They executed 7 yo twins Magaret and Sara Fancher for "survival" reasons?

How much of a threat were they, anyway?
How about 7 yo Mary Lavina Baker...shot dead by Mormons...killed for a "survival" purpose, too?
Or what about 9 yo James William Miller...shot dead by Mormons...."survival" reason also?

How about those Fancher twin girls' brother, 10-yo brother, Martin...shot dead by Mormons. Survival demanded his death, too?
Or his 14 yo brother, Thomas...shot dead by Mormons.
Or his 15 yo sister, Mary...shot dead by Mormons.
Or his 17 yo brother, William...shot dead by Mormons.
Or his 19 yo brother, Hampton...shot dead by Mormons.
Or 16 yo Henry Cameron...shot dead by Mormons.

[BTW: Of the Cameron/Miller Group, only three children of Josiah Miller and Matilda Cameron Miller, survived. Malinda Cameron Scott Thurston charged in 1877 that Mormons, under the authority of Brigham Young; killed eleven of her relatives, kidnapped the surviving children, and stole the property of her family. see http://www.legendsofamerica.com/ut-mountainmeadowsvictims2.html]

I'm sure this isn't a full list of child victims.

So, bvw...140 people were already a good portion of the way in and on their way OUT of Utah! Survival!???

You're got some utter nerve trying to justify all of this!!! This is horrid on your part!

[Wayne Capurro]

The Mormon Church agreed to go along with National Landmark Status (Status being the operative word). The Church should be an actual National Landmark. This will be a little harder for the Church to swallow since it gives the Federal (Gentile) Government the right to interpret the site. After all, the two sides were at war with each other for a time... even though an actual declaration was never issued... from either side. This happened more than two years ago and the Church deserves credit for going along with it.... even though it took them too long to get there. The Mormon Church owns all the land that massacre site is on.

[Wayne Capurro]

You probably read Will Bagley’s: “Blood of the Prophets”. It was published in 2003, I think, and Will had a lot more information than Wise's “Massacre at Mountain Meadows”. Both good books. Neither author was writing from the Mormon viewpoint, which enhances their credibility... in my opinion. Not that I'm anti-Mormon... I'm not. The Mormons have had a strong motive to conceal the truth of this horrid event for the past 154 years. And they have.

[Wayne Capurro]

There was no declaration of war by the U.S. against Mormons, or vice versa. There was intense dislike from, and towards, both sides. The Mormons probably believed the U.S. was sending troops to wage war upon them. That there was a War Hysteria among the Mormon people, is well documented. However, troops were being sent to establish a Federal Fort in support of the Territorial Government. This was pursuant to the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo which established the Utah Territory as a U.S. possession... something the Mormon Leadership, of that time, hated.

[Wayne Capurro]

What’s so ridiculous about it? It happened on 9/11 (144 years prior). But that’s not the important part. The perpetrators were religiously motivated. They believed they were doing the will of their Prophet by killing the Gentiles in that wagon train. The evidence is strong that their Prophet ordered it done. Were the 9/11/01 hijackers not doing the will of Mohammed by engaging in Jihad against the Infidels? What’s hyperbolic about that?

[Wayne Capurro]

Only 80 of the 120+ killed are known by name. Bagley’s book has the most comprehensive list of named victims. Most were from around Harrison and Fayetteville... although several had recently immigrated from Tennessee before they embarked for California.

[Wayne Capurro]

“That’s strange, I’ve known about this massacre since I was a child (read it in a history book).”

I’m surprised to hear that. Only one state (Arkansas) has included the Mountain Meadows Massacre in it’s school text State History book. To my knowledge even that one was only recently added (a couple years back) by Dr. Burr Fancher. I’d be interested to know what history book you’re referring to.

[Wayne Capurro]

Very good point. Many Americans are so eager to condemn what the U.S. citizenry did to Native Americans, they completely overlook the viciousness of some of the tribes.

[svcw]

THX 1138

[Wayne Capurro]

William Lin also wrote a good book “All About The Mormons” published in 1903. He interviewed a lot of people who had first hand knowledge of the event. And Mark Twain wrote a pretty accurate piece on the Massacre in “Roughing It”... Appendix 11, I believe. So did Jack London in “Star Traveler”.

[Wayne Capurro]

You’re mostly accurate, but Joseph Smith, Jr. was not alive when the Mountain Meadows Massacre occurred. Joseph never made it across the Rockies. However, the evidence is strong that Brigham Yong ordered the massacre.

[reaganaut]

Any Mormon prophet could turn into another Brigham Young. Even call for a return to ‘blood atonement’ and many of the mind numbed robots in the LDS would follow it.

The orders of their prophet come before ANYTHING else, even the US. Constitution.

[Tennessee Nana]

9/11/1777 Battle of Brandywine
9/11/1814 Battle of Lake Champlain
9/11/1842 Mexican expedition captures San Antonio
_________________________________________

The kid forgot the Battle of Lake George in 1755

The French/Indian Wars

My 6th great grandfather was wounded at the Battle of Bloody Pond on 8/11 and died on 9/11

There were 3 battles that day the “Pond” was the last in the evening

Surely that was more important than the ones he came up with...

A marker for Captain Timothy McGinnis is right there by Lake George...

However he was a well seasoned volunteer member of the provincial army from the Mohawk Valley, and not a non-combatant being stalked and murdered by religious fanatics...

[GladesGuru]

“That is not an act of war - it was flat out cold blooded murder and terrorism.”

Given the relative poverty of the LDs in the MMM area, what of the fact that the wagon train represented a chance to obtain tools, livestock, cash, etc. Getting rich while getting revenge, so to speak.

The issue of plain old theft/murder may deserve some discussion.

[Tennessee Nana]

Where’s the humility in those here digging up the dead to raise a stench?
__________________________________________

and yet you are kind too Brighamm Young who truly did dig up the dead and desecrate the mass grave/cairn of his 9/11 victims..

Tearing down the cross and destroying the sign that read “”Revenge is mine saith the Lord”...

and saying “No, revenge is mine and I took some...”

]

[Tennessee Nana]

Except the one who benefitted most from the theft of all those cattle and horsses and money and possessions was the already wealthy Brigham Young

Most of the valuable items had be be brought to Salt lake City and impounded in the “storehouse carroll”

Even the bloody clothes were stolen of the backs of the victims and their bodies left naked on the praire UNBURIED FOR TWO YEARS

Brigham Young drove around in an expensive fancy carriage that one of the wagon party was taking to CA...

The only way the US Army could rescue 17 of the kidnapped children was for the US government to pay $10,000 (1859 money) in ransom to Brigham Young...

The children were mostly in starved neglected condition and very little had been spent to board and feed them...

Some of the children were able to tell the US Army of seeing their mothers and fathers murdered by the Mormons..

[Elsie]

 

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 89

 

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.

 

1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.

 

  1 A ^aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the ^aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and ^bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

  3 Given for a principle with ^apromise, adapted to the capacity of the ^bweak and the weakest of all ^csaints, who are or can be called saints.

  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of ^aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of ^bconspiring men in the last days, I have ^cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

  5 That inasmuch as any man ^adrinketh ^bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, ^apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

  7 And, again, ^astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

  8 And again, tobacco is not for the ^abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome ^aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with ^aprudence and ^bthanksgiving.

  12 Yea, ^aflesh also of ^bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used ^csparingly;

  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be ^aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or ^bfamine.

  14 All ^agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

  15 And ^athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

  16 All grain is good for the ^afood of man; as also the ^bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ^ashall receive ^bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;

  19 And shall ^afind ^bwisdom and great ^ctreasures of ^dknowledge, even hidden treasures;

  20 And shall ^arun and not be ^bweary, and shall walk and not faint.

  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the ^adestroying angel shall ^bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

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The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[Elsie]

I remember upsetting a 9th grade pre-algebra class when I told them PI equals 10.

NOW you've done it!

The BIBLE is wrong about PI folks will pounce, using their incomplete math skills!

[Elsie]

I remember upsetting a 9th grade pre-algebra class when I told them PI equals 10.

Try being a Hoosier; PROUD of the states highly intelligent politicians of the past!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill

[Elsie]

I remember upsetting a 9th grade pre-algebra class when I told them PI equals 10.

Try the tongue in cheek poser:

Wow!

Jesus is a VERY unique fellow, for what are the odds of being born on Christmas and Dying on Easter?

---

(Select all for the answer)

About 1/365 * 1/365

If they get THAT; remind them that Jesus did NOT die on Easter!

Hee hee!