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CALVINISM IN AMERICA [Happy "Presbyterian Rebellion" Day, everybody!]
Reformed Theology.org ^ | Loraine Boettner

Posted on 07/04/2011 8:49:43 AM PDT by Alex Murphy

When we come to study the influence of Calvinism as a political force in the history of the United States we come to one of the brightest pages of all Calvinistic history. Calvinism came to America in the Mayflower, and Bancroft, the greatest of American historians, pronounces the Pilgrim Fathers "Calvinists in their faith according to the straightest system."1 John Endicott, the first governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony; John Winthrop, the second governor of that Colony; Thomas Hooker, the founder of Connecticut; John Davenport, the founder of the New Haven Colony; and Roger Williams, the founder of the Rhode Island Colony, were all Calvinists. William Penn was a disciple of the Huguenots. It is estimated that of the 3,000,000 Americans at the time of the American Revolution, 900,000 were of Scotch or Scotch-Irish origin, 600,000 were Puritan English, and 400,000 were German or Dutch Reformed. In addition to this the Episcopalians had a Calvinistic confession in their Thirty-nine Articles; and many French Huguenots also had come to this western world. Thus we see that about two-thirds of the colonial population had been trained in the school of Calvin. Never in the world's history had a nation been founded by such people as these. Furthermore these people came to America not primarily for commercial gain or advantage, but because of deep religious convictions. It seems that the religious persecutions in various European countries had been providentially used to select out the most progressive and enlightened people for the colonization of America. At any rate it is quite generally admitted that the English, Scotch, Germans, and Dutch have been the most masterful people of Europe. Let it be especially remembered that the Puritans, who formed the great bulk of the settlers in New England, brought with them a Calvinistic Protestantism, that they were truly devoted to the doctrines of the great Reformers, that they had an aversion for formalism and oppression whether in the Church or in the State, and that in New England Calvinism remained the ruling theology throughout the entire Colonial period.

With this background we shall not be surprised to find that the Presbyterians took a very prominent part in the American Revolution. Our own historian Bancroft says: "The Revolution of 1776, so far as it was affected by religion, was a Presbyterian measure. It was the natural outgrowth of the principles which the Presbyterianism of the Old World planted in her sons, the English Puritans, the Scotch Covenanters, the French Huguenots, the Dutch Calvinists, and the Presbyterians of Ulster." So intense, universal, and aggressive were the Presbyterians in their zeal for liberty that the war was spoken of in England as "The Presbyterian Rebellion." An ardent colonial supporter of King George III wrote home: "I fix all the blame for these extraordinary proceedings upon the Presbyterians. They have been the chief and principal instruments in all these flaming measures. They always do and ever will act against government from that restless and turbulent anti-monarchial spirit which has always distinguished them everywhere."2 When the news of "these extraordinary proceedings" reached England, Prime Minister Horace Walpole said in Parliament, "Cousin America has run off with a Presbyterian parson" (John Witherspoon, president of Princeton, signer of Declaration of Independence).

History is eloquent in declaring that American democracy was born of Christianity and that that Christianity was Calvinism. The great Revolutionary conflict which resulted in the formation of the American nation, was carried out mainly by Calvinists, many of whom had been trained in the rigidly Presbyterian College at Princeton, and this nation is their gift to all liberty loving people.

J. R. Sizoo tells us: "When Cornwallis was driven back to ultimate retreat and surrender at Yorktown, all of the colonels of the Colonial Army but one were Presbyterian elders. More than one-half of all the soldiers and officers of the American Army during the Revolution were Presbyterians."3

The testimony of Emilio Castelar, the famous Spanish statesman, orator and scholar, is interesting and valuable. Castelar had been professor of Philosophy in the University of Madrid before he entered politics, and he was made president of the republic which was set up by the Liberals in 1873. As a Roman Catholic he hated Calvin and Calvinism. Says he: "It was necessary for the republican movement that there should come a morality more austere than Luther's, the morality of Calvin, and a Church more democratic than the German, the Church of Geneva. The Anglo-Saxon democracy has for its lineage a book of a primitive society — the Bible. It is the product of a severe theology learned by the few Christian fugitives in the gloomy cities of Holland and Switzerland, where the morose shade of Calvin still wanders . . . And it remains serenely in its grandeur, forming the most dignified, most moral and most enlightened portion of the human race."4

Says Motley: "In England the seeds of liberty, wrapped up in Calvinism and hoarded through many trying years, were at last destined to float over land and sea, and to bear the largest harvests of temperate freedom for great commonwealths that were still unborn.5 "The Calvinists founded the commonwealths of England, of Holland, and America." And again, "To Calvinists more than to any other class of men, the political liberties of England, Holland and America are due."6

The testimony of another famous historian, the Frenchman Taine, who himself held no religious faith, is worthy of consideration. Concerning the Calvinists he said: "These men are the true heroes of England. They founded England, in spite of the corruption of the Stuarts, by the exercise of duty, by the practice of justice, by obstinate toil, by vindication of right, by resistance to oppression, by the conquest of liberty, by the repression of vice. They founded Scotland; they founded the United States; at this day they are, by their descendants, founding Australia and colonizing the world."7

In his book, "The Creed of Presbyterians," E. W. Smith asks concerning the American colonists, "Where learned they those immortal principles of the rights of man, of human liberty, equality and self-government, on which they based their Republic, and which form today the distinctive glory of our American civilization ? In the school of Calvin they learned them. There the modern world learned them. So history teaches," (p. 121).

We shall now pass on to consider the influence which the Presbyterian Church as a Church exerted in the formation of the Republic. "The Presbyterian Church," said Dr. W. H. Roberts in an address before the General Assembly, "was for three-quarters of a century the sole representative upon this continent of republican government as now organized in the nation." And then he continues: "From 1706 to the opening of the revolutionary struggle the only body in existence which stood for our present national political organization was the General Synod of the American Presbyterian Church. It alone among ecclesiastical and political colonial organizations exercised authority, derived from the colonists themselves, over bodies of Americans scattered through all the colonies from New England to Georgia. The colonies in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, it is to be remembered, while all dependent upon Great Britain, were independent of each other. Such a body as the Continental Congress did not exist until 1774. The religious condition of the country was similar to the political. The Congregational Churches of New England had no connection with each other, and had no power apart from the civil government. The Episcopal Church was without organization in the colonies, was dependent for support and a ministry on the Established Church of England, and was filled with an intense loyalty to the British monarchy. The Reformed Dutch Church did not become an efficient and independent organization until 1771, and the German Reformed Church did not attain to that condition until 1793. The Baptist Churches were separate organizations, the Methodists were practically unknown, and the Quakers were non-combatants."

Delegates met every year in the General Synod, and as Dr. Roberts tells us, the Church became "a bond of union and correspondence between large elements in the population of the divided colonies." "Is it any wonder," he continues, "that under its fostering influence the sentiments of true liberty, as well as the tenets of a sound gospel, were preached throughout the territory from Long Island to South Carolina, and that above all a feeling of unity between the Colonies began slowly but surely to assert itself? Too much emphasis cannot be laid, in connection with the origin of the nation, upon the influence of that ecclesiastical republic, which from 1706 to 1774 was the only representative on this continent of fully developed federal republican institutions. The United States of America owes much to that oldest of American Republics, the Presbyterian Church."8

It is, of course, not claimed that the Presbyterian Church was the only source from which sprang the principles upon which this republic is founded, but it is claimed that the principles found in the Westminster Standards were the chief basis for the republic, and that "The Presbyterian Church taught, practiced, and maintained in fulness, first in this land that form of government in accordance with which the Republic has been organized." (Roberts).

The opening of the Revolutionary struggle found the Presbyterian ministers and churches lined up solidly on the side of the colonists, and Bancroft accredits them with having made the first bold move toward independence.9 The synod which assembled in Philadelphia in 1775 was the first religious body to declare openly and publicly for a separation from England. It urged the people under its jurisdiction to leave nothing undone that would promote the end in view, and called upon them to pray for the Congress which was then in session.

The Episcopalian Church was then still united with the Church of England, and it opposed the Revolution. A considerable number of individuals within that Church, however, labored earnestly for independence and gave of their wealth and influence to secure it. It is to be remembered also that the Commander-in-Chief of the American armies, "the father of our country," was a member of her household. Washington himself attended, and ordered all of his men to attend the services of his chaplains, who were clergymen from the various churches. He gave forty thousand dollars to establish a Presbyterian College in his native state, which took his name in honor of the gift and became Washington College.

N. S. McFetridge has thrown light upon another major development of the Revolutionary period. For the sake of accuracy and completeness we shall take the privilege of quoting him rather extensively. "Another important factor in the independent movement," says he, "was what is known as the 'Mecklenburg Declaration,' proclaimed by the Scotch-Irish Presbyterians of North Carolina, May 20, 1775, more than a year before the Declaration (of Independence) of Congress. It was the fresh, hearty greeting of the Scotch-Irish to their struggling brethren in the North, and their bold challenge to the power of England. They had been keenly watching the progress of the contest between the colonies and the Crown, and when they heard of the address presented by the Congress to the King, declaring the colonies in actual rebellion, they deemed it time for patriots to speak. Accordingly, they called a representative body together in Charlotte, N. C., which by unanimous resolution declared the people free and independent, and that all laws and commissions from the king were henceforth null and void. In their Declaration were such resolutions as these: 'We do hereby dissolve the political bands which have connected us with the mother-country, and hereby absolve ourselves from all allegiance to the British crown' .... 'We hereby declare ourselves a free and independent people; are, and of right ought to be, a sovereign and self-governing association, under control of no power other than that of our God and the general government of Congress; to the maintenance of which we solemnly pledge to each other our mutual cooperation and our lives, our fortunes and our most sacred honor.' ... That assembly was composed of twenty-seven staunch Calvinists, just one-third of whom were ruling elders in the Presbyterian Church, including the president and secretary; and one was a Presbyterian clergyman. The man who drew up that famous and important document was the secretary, Ephraim Brevard, a ruling elder of the Presbyterian Church and a graduate of Princeton College. Bancroft says of it that it was, 'in effect, a declaration as well as a complete system of government.' (U.S. Hist. VIII, 40). It was sent by special messenger to the Congress in Philadelphia, and was published in the Cape Fear Mercury, and was widely distributed throughout the land. Of course it was speedily transmitted to England, where it became the cause of intense excitement.

"The identity of sentiment and similarity of expression in this Declaration and the great Declaration written by Jefferson could not escape the eye of the historian; hence Tucker, in his Life of Jefferson, says: 'Everyone must be persuaded that one of these papers must have been borrowed from the other.' But it is certain that Brevard could not have 'borrowed' from Jefferson, for he wrote more than a year before Jefferson; hence Jefferson, according to his biographer, must have 'borrowed' from Brevard. But it was a happy plagiarism, for which the world will freely forgive him. In correcting his first draft of the Declaration it can be seen, in at least a few places, that Jefferson has erased the original words and inserted those which are first found in the Mecklenberg Declaration. No one can doubt that Jefferson had Brevard's resolutions before him when he was writing his immortal Declaration."10

This striking similarity between the principles set forth in the Form of Government of the Presbyterian Church and those set forth in the Constitution of the United States has caused much comment. "When the fathers of our Republic sat down to frame a system of representative and popular government," says Dr. E. W. Smith, "their task was not so difficult as some have imagined. They had a model to work by."11

"If the average American citizen were asked, who was the founder of America, the true author of our great Republic, he might be puzzled to answer. We can imagine his amazement at hearing the answer given to this question by the famous German historian, Ranke, one of the profoundest scholars of modern times. Says Ranke, 'John Calvin was the virtual founder of America.'"12

D'Aubigne, whose history of the Reformation is a classic, writes: "Calvin was the founder of the greatest of republics. The Pilgrims who left their country in the reign of James I, and landing on the barren soil of New England, founded populous and mighty colonies, were his sons, his direct and legitimate sons; and that American nation which we have seen growing so rapidly boasts as its father the humble Reformer on the shore of Lake Leman."13

Dr. E. W. Smith says, "These revolutionary principles of republican liberty and self-government, taught and embodied in the system of Calvin, were brought to America, and in this new land where they have borne so mighty a harvest were planted, by whose hands? — the hands of the Calvinists. The vital relation of Calvin and Calvinism to the founding of the free institutions of America, however strange in some ears the statement of Ranke may have sounded, is recognized and affirmed by historians of all lands and creeds."14

All this has been thoroughly understood and candidly acknowledged by such penetrating and philosophic historians as Bancroft, who far though he was from being Calvinistic in his own personal convictions, simply calls Calvin "the father of America," and adds: "He who will not honor the memory and respect the influence of Calvin knows but little of the origin of American liberty."

When we remember that two-thirds of the population at the time of the Revolution had been trained in the school of Calvin, and when we remember how unitedly and enthusiastically the Calvinists labored for the cause of independence, we readily see how true are the above testimonies.

There were practically no Methodists in America at the time of the Revolution; and, in fact, the Methodist Church was not officially organized as such in England until the year 1784, which was three years after the American Revolution closed. John Wesley, great and good man though he was, was a Tory and a believer in political non-resistance. He wrote against the American "rebellion," but accepted the providential result. McFetridge tells us: "The Methodists had hardly a foothold in the colonies when the war began. In 1773 they claimed about one hundred and sixty members. Their ministers were almost all, if not all, from England, and were staunch supporters of the Crown against American Independence. Hence, when the war broke out they were compelled to fly from the country. Their political views were naturally in accord with those of their great leader, John Wesley, who wielded all the power of his eloquence and influence against the independence of the colonies. (Bancroft, Hist. U.S., Vol. VII, p. 261.) He did not foresee that independent America was to be the field on which his noble Church was to reap her largest harvests, and that in that Declaration which he so earnestly opposed lay the security of the liberties of his followers."15

In England and America the great struggles for civil and religious liberty were nursed in Calvinism, inspired by Calvinism, and carried out largely by men who were Calvinists. And because the majority of historians have never made a serious study of Calvinism they have never been able to give us a truthful and complete account of what it has done in these countries. Only the light of historical investigation is needed to show us how our forefathers believed in it and were controlled by it. We live in a day when the services of the Calvinists in the founding of this country have been largely forgotten, and one can hardly treat of this subject without appearing to be a mere eulogizer of Calvinism. We may well do honor to that Creed which has borne such sweet fruits and to which America owes so much.

Footnotes:

1Hist. U. S., I, p. 463.
2Presbyterians and the Revolution, p. 49.
3They Seek a Country, J. G. Slosser, editor, p. 155.
4Harper's Monthly. June and July, 1872.
5The'United Netherlands, III., p. 121.
6The United Netherlands, IV., pp. 548, 547.
7English Literature, II., p. 472.
8Address on, "The Westminster Standards and the Formation of the American Republic.
9Hist. U.S., X., p. 77.
10Calvinism in History, pp. 85-88.
11The Creed of Presbyterians, p. 142.
12Id. p. 119.
13Reformation in the Time of Calvin, I., p. 5.
14The Creed of Presbyterians, p. 132.
15Calvinism in History, p. 74.


TOPICS: History; Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: boettnerfraud; presbyterianfantasy; revisedhistory
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To: BlueDragon
"Shove off, pea-brain."

That can't be right. I don't have a boat and I sure don't have gardening on the brain. Oh, I have a few things planted and growing but the neighbors chickens keep getting in the garden and that doesn't seem to be helping. Now, these are some gaunt chickens, not at all like the you'd expect a chicken to be. I keep fixing the hole in the fence but somehow another one appears or my repairs get undone. One time the neighbor complained and said one of my dogs had killed one of his chickens. Jack the Basset never came back in with feathers hanging out of his mouth or anything but I know dogs will kill a chicken so I asked what the guy wanted for his chicken and settled up.

When I heard he had demanded payment from a couple of other dog owners around here I figured it out. Nice guy that he is, this neighbor has figured out that the poor examples of chicken-hood he is raising are pretty much worthless unless he can get them to wonder into a neighbors' garden and then say they were slain by a vicious Basset or errant Terrier and pretend they're worth real money. No matter what he says, everyone knows damn well he's trying to get people to pay him top dollar for worthless chickens.

61 posted on 07/05/2011 12:34:14 AM PDT by Rashputin (Obama is insane but kept medicated and on golf courses to hide it)
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To: BlueDragon; Rashputin; MarkBsnr
Wow -- so the reformatters created the USA?

Despite the separation of 2 centuries or more between the events?

That's utterly incorrect

For the first hand, both the English and the Revolutionaries were pretty much of the same religion

Secondly, the puritans were hardly lovers of liberty -- when they could establish their taliban states they did

thirdly, evidently you may not have heard that Catholics played a disproportionate role in the American Revolution contrary to their numbers (1.6% of the colonies' population)

  1. There were no Baptists among the Founding Fathers --> there were
    1. Church of England/Episcopalian: 28
    2. Presbyterian: 8
    3. Congregationalists: 8
    4. Lutherans: 2
    5. Dutch Reformed: 2
    6. Methodists: 2
    7. Catholics: 3 (C. Caroll, D. Caroll & Fitzsimons)
    8. Deists: 7 (including Thomas Jefferson

  2. Evidently you never heard that Maryland was founded for providing religious toleration of England's persecuted Roman Catholics?

  3. Evidently you never knew that John Caroll had initially been a priest before devoting himself to the Revolution?

  4. Evidently you never heard of Fr. Pierre Gibault who pledged the support of the region of S-W Indiana to the USA (to Col. George Rogers Clark)?

  5. Evidently you never heard of the accomplishments of John Barry, a native Irishman who captained a number of ships during the war. Barry was the first to capture a British war vessel on the high seas; he also was wounded in a sea batter yet captured two British ships and fought the last battle on the seas of the Revolutionary war. He was George Washington's choice for commander of the US navy -- he was issued Commission Number 1 by Washintong and was not only the first American commissioned naval officer but also it's first flag officer

  6. Evidently you've never heard of the Marquis de Lafayette, a Catholic or the Polish captain Tadeusz Kosciuszko and both were key in the Revolutionary War?
  7. Evidently you never heard of Casimir Pułaski, a Pole who led Washington's cavalry and died in the battle for Savannah

  8. Evidently you never heard of the Catholic Philadelphia merchant Stephen Moylan who became Quatermaster General of the Continental Army?

  9. John Caroll says this about Catholic participation in the Revolutionary war (remember the country was only 1.6% Catholic):"Their blood flowed as freely, in proportion to their numbers, to cement the fabric of independence as that of their fellow citizens. They concurred with perhaps greater unanimity than any other body of men in recommending and promoting from whose influence America anticipates all the blessings of justice, peace, plenty, good orders, and civil and religious liberty"

The religious freedom fought for was also religious freedom for Catholics from Protestant England, hence the Catholic volunteers and support from Catholic Irishmen, Frenchmen and Poles.

It is wrong to claim that this was just the Calvinists who liberated our country.

62 posted on 07/05/2011 12:45:24 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: BlueDragon; Celtic Cross; Rashputin
John Calvin wrote in Of civil government
"An evil man seeketh only rebellion, therefore an evil messenger shall be sent against him."

For it is just as if it had been said, that it is not owing to human perverseness that supreme power on earth is lodged in kings and other governors, but by Divine Providence

Those who are desirous to introduce anarchy object that, though anciently kings and judges presided over a rude people, yet that, in the present day that servile mode of governing does not at all accord with the perfection which Christ brought with his gospel. Herein they betray not only their ignorance, but their devilish pride, arrogating to themselves a perfection of which not even a hundredth part is seen in them.

But be they what they may, the refutation is easy. For when David says, "Be wise now therefore O you kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth," "kiss the son, lest he be angry" (Psalm 2: 10, 12,) he does not order them to lay aside their authority and return to private life, but to make the power with which they are invested subject to Christ, that he may rule over all.

In like manner, when Isaiah predicts of the Church, "Kings shall be thy nursing-fathers, and their queens and nursing- mothers," (Isaiah 49: 23,) he does not bid them abdicate their authority; he rather gives them the honourable appellation of patrons of the pious worshipers of God; for the prophecy refers to the advent of Christ. I intentionally omit very many passages which occur throughout Scripture, and especially in the Psalms, in which the due authority of all rulers is asserted.

The most celebrated passage of all is that in which Paul admonishing Timothy, that prayers are to be offered up in the public assembly for kings,

The concept of liberty from Kings that swept the world from the time of the American and French Revolutions right up until the expelling of the Kings/Emperors/Tsars/Kaisers/Caliphs in 1911-1918 owed more to the Greek concepts of individual freedoms rather than to Calvin who said For if it has pleased him to appoint kings over kingdoms and senates or burgomasters over free states, whatever be the form which he has appointed in the places in which we live, our duty is to obey and submit. and furthermore goes on to say (in Calvin's Institutes Obedience to bad kings required in Scripture.
63 posted on 07/05/2011 12:58:05 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Rashputin; MarkBsnr
Then in the next breath they insist that no one has any special authority since everyone can interpret Scriptures on their own according to their own understanding.

Quite right -- Calvin basically said "don't follow what has been taught for 1500 years by Christ and His apostles, follow me. And if you don't, then remember Mikey Servetus"

64 posted on 07/05/2011 1:00:04 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Diamond; Celtic Cross; Rashputin; MarkBsnr
Of course Calvinism is incompatible with missionary work -- see how the Union Baptists like Abner Smith and Ariel Dancer followed the "two seeds" doctrine that it was foolish to present the Word to the non-elect and that the elect would be won without missionaries
65 posted on 07/05/2011 1:10:05 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: BlueDragon
...if not for the Reformers, I doubt there would have ever been a United States of America.


That's for sure !!!!!!


CatholicTV calls for "Benevolent Dictatorship"?!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2701531/posts
66 posted on 07/05/2011 1:31:41 AM PDT by Lera
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To: Cronos
Of course Calvinism is incompatible with missionary work -- see how the Union Baptists like Abner Smith and Ariel Dancer followed the "two seeds" doctrine...

Would you mind explaining the examples of missionary zeal I gave in post #28 then?

Cordially,

67 posted on 07/05/2011 5:37:59 AM PDT by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: Rashputin
You got that right. In one breath they quote someone like Calvin who in reality was just another power hungry jerk with a pen and a desire to avoid taking up his cross to follow Christ. Then in the next breath they insist that no one has any special authority since everyone can interpret Scriptures on their own according to their own understanding. Who wouldn't be aware of their own failure when their argument relies on a stool with three legs, but with two attached to one side of the surface and the third leg attached to the opposite side of the surface?

Our esteemed opponents are out of Wonderland inasmuch as they believe that anything can mean what they want it to mean.

Like TUPLIP, that Terribly Useful Lie Infecting Protestants, it's all self-gratification and nothing else. It's a scam created by the master of scams who always appeals to pride first and hardens the heart of the fallen when they succumb to other temptations once pride hides the Truth. What is more appealing to human pride than being as god knowing both good and evil without the need to take up the cross of obedience before we can know His ways?

When your god is the image that you see in the mirror, and you keep him on the hall stand and rub his head for luck when you walk by, what need have you of anything else?

68 posted on 07/05/2011 5:41:58 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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Comment #69 Removed by Moderator

To: Diamond
1. This is incompatible with Calvin's own Limited Atonement and double predestination philosophy. If one follows Calvinist philosophy on this, then none can "do" (do = work) anything to bring anything to Christ's fold as it's already pre-programmed.

2. Calvin did not evangelize France. Remigius did that in 496 AD

3. Prove your statement that Calvin sent out more missionaries than the BAptist, Pentecostals, Methodists of today.

4. The missionary movement was founded by Christ. There is no such thing as "modern missionary movement" indicating a discontinuation with the original message to spread the Word of Christ -- the commission given by Christ Himself.

70 posted on 07/05/2011 5:55:07 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Cronos
Quite right -- Calvin basically said "don't follow what has been taught for 1500 years by Christ and His apostles, follow me. And if you don't, then remember Mikey Servetus"

Sure. Let Mikey try it. He'll eat anything...

71 posted on 07/05/2011 5:56:48 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: Cronos
Quite right -- Calvin basically said "don't follow what has been taught for 1500 years by Christ and His apostles, follow me. And if you don't, then remember Mikey Servetus"

Sure. Let Mikey try it. He'll eat anything...

72 posted on 07/05/2011 5:56:48 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: Diamond

By it’s very nature, a cult like Calvins that prides itself on being the Brahmin race of predestined folks is inimical to proselytism.


73 posted on 07/05/2011 5:56:59 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Thanks for the ping. It is sad though to see how it did not take long before the nasty posts started. Never any facts, but full of attitude. Sigh...


74 posted on 07/05/2011 6:25:36 AM PDT by lupie
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To: Siena Dreaming

You wrote: “Interesting that the Puritans themselves were not Presbyterians but Congregationalists.”

The 55 Framers (from North to South):

John Langdon, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Nicholas Gilman, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Elbridge Gerry, Episcoplian (Calvinist)
Rufus King, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Caleb Strong, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Nathaniel Gorham, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Roger Sherman, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
William Samuel Johnson, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Oliver Ellsworth, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Alexander Hamilton, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
John Lansing, Dutch Reformed (Calvinist)
Robert Yates, Dutch Reformed (Calvinist)
William Patterson, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
William Livingston, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Jonathan Dayton, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
David Brearly, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Churchill Houston, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Benjamin Franklin, Christian in his youth, Deist in later years, then back to his Puritan background in his old age (his June 28, 1787 prayer at the Constitutional Convention was from no “Deist”)
Robert Morris, Episcopalian, (Calvinist)
James Wilson, probably a Deist
Gouverneur Morris, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Thomas Mifflin, Lutheran (Calvinist-lite)
George Clymer, Quaker turned Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Thomas FitzSimmons, Roman Catholic
Jared Ingersoll, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
John Dickinson, Quaker turned Episcopalian (Calvinist)
George Read, Episcopalian, (Calvinist)
Richard Bassett, Methodist
Gunning Bedford, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Jacob Broom, Lutheran
Luther Martin, Episcopalian, (Calvinist)
Daniel Carroll, Roman Catholic
John Francis Mercer, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
James McHenry, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Daniel of St Thomas Jennifer, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
George Washington, Episcopalian (Calvinist; no, he was not a deist)
James Madison, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
George Mason, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Edmund Jennings Randolph, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
James Blair, Jr., Episcopalian (Calvinist)
James McClung, ?
George Wythe, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Richardson Davie, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Hugh Williamson, Presbyterian, possibly later became a Deist
William Blount, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Alexander Martin, Presbyterian/Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Richard Dobbs Spaight, Jr., Episcopalian (Calvinist)
John Rutledge, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, III, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Abraham Baldwin, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
William Leigh Pierce, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Houstoun, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Few, Methodist

NOTE: Historic Protestant, Episcopalian doctrine is Reformed and Calvinistic. The Episcopalian church that adheres to its historic doctrine is still Reformed in the United States.

“Calvinism prevailed in England since it was the theology behind the Thirty-Nine Articles (1563) of the Church of England” (Paul Enns, *Moody Handbook of Theology*. Chicago: Moody Press, 1989), p. 476.

The Episcopalians held as their subordinate standards the 39 Articles of Religion. This confession is Calvinistic in emphasis.

bttt


75 posted on 07/05/2011 6:38:24 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ("I used to think Obama was an empty suit but now I think he has filled his pants." ~badgerlandjim)
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To: Salvation
Were you aware that George Washington may have become a Catholic?

Then why did he request, and was granted, believer's baptism by John Gano, a Baptist pastor?

76 posted on 07/05/2011 7:02:41 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus ("Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home." - Cicero)
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To: BlueDragon
...it burns you up, doesn't it? what you champion, was in past centuries the enemy of what is held dear by many in this nation. Freedom. (not a "Catholic" idea!)

Uh, I'm not Catholic. I'm a Baptist - and I find the Catholics and the Protestants (read Calvinists) equally worthy of criticism on this regard.

77 posted on 07/05/2011 7:04:22 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus ("Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home." - Cicero)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus; Salvation
Actually, Washington didn't -- it's called the "Alleged baptism of George Washington by Gano"

Rupert Hughes, Washington's biographer researched this and says that Gano was with Clinton's army in Valley Forge or the Potomac and there is no documentation of Gano ever being at Valley Forge, that there is nothing in Gano's own correspondence or his biography to suggest that the event took place, and that none of the 42 reputed witnesses ever documented the event

Washington attended services at numerous churches -- he was a great man and he was born Anglican, may have become Catholic, but that's an issue with him and God.

78 posted on 07/05/2011 7:38:14 AM PDT by Cronos ( W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie I Szczebrzeszyn z tego slynie.)
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Comment #79 Removed by Moderator

To: HossB86
Didn’t take long for the infants to show up and tinkle in the pool. But, seems like that’s typical. Especially when faced with facts.

Certainly. Comic book Christianity is such a great substitute for the real Faith. Warms the heart, right?

80 posted on 07/05/2011 7:56:50 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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