Did Mary Have Other Children?

Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry ^ | Unknown | Matt Slick

[Lera]

There is only ONE DOOR and it isn’t Mary.

[Cronos]

Lera: The "----" has an old history and all the nations of the earth were drunken in "---" -- you can add in any title like King of Kings, Lord of Lords, El, etc. and these were titles given to old pagan gods as well ---> does this mean that your group,Lera, would consider Jesus a pagan god because of titles given that are similar to pagan gods titles?

[bkaycee]

Hmmm. Where in scripture, is Mary given the titles Queen of heaven?

[Cronos]

Perhaps you missed it

brother has shades of meaning because Aramaic and other Semitic languages do not differentiate between a blood brother/sister and a cousin or other

For example

1. MAtt 1:2 "Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers," for step-brothers with the same father but different mothers
2. acts 3:17 "17And now, brethren,"
3. Luke 10:29 "and who is my brother"
4. Matt 5:47
5. Matt 23:8
6. Rev 22:9

So, yes, brothers had a wider meaning then just blood brother. And no, the term "Irdu" is not used biblically.

The NT was written in Greek, ok -- not all, but let's take your argument for the sake of argument. Remember also that the words of Jesus were mostly Aramaic or Hebrew or maybe even GReek -- we've already shown that in SEmitic languages like Aramaic/hebrew there is no differntiating term between a blood brother and a cousin, let's examine the GReek ouch outos estin o tekton o uios Marias adelphos de Iakobou Iose kai Iouda kai Simonos

If the term is that the adelphoi have the same mother then it would be ho adelphos But that is not used. Without the article adelphos is non-specific and non-exclusive and can mean kinsmen, relatives

[Cronos]

Lera: The "----" has an old history and all the nations of the earth were drunken in "---" -- you can add in any title like King of Kings, Lord of Lords, El, etc. and these were titles given to old pagan gods as well ---> does this mean that your group,Lera, would consider Jesus a pagan god because of titles given that are similar to pagan gods titles?

So, does one say that because we use the term "God of Light" for Jesus, Jesus is some kind of pagan god?

Just because there were pagan gods who used the same title? Really?

Lera: He is KING OF KINGS

Wait -- Daniel 2:37 addressed to Nebuchadnezzar 37Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. -- shock! Jesus is given a title that was once used by a PAGAN king!

does this mean that in such logic (and this is a question mind you), that Jesus is a pagan god

Lera: He is KING OF KINGS

Wait -- Osiris, the Egyptian God from 2000 BC was called King of Kings -- shock! Jesus is given a title that was once used by a PAGAN king!

does this mean that in such logic as in your post that Jesus is a pagan god?

Lera: He is LORD OF LORDS

Wait -- Osiris, the Egyptian God from 2000 BC was called "He was called Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods...the Resurrection and the Life, the Good shepherd...the god who 'made men and women be born again" -- shock! Jesus is given a title that was once used by a PAGAN god!

does this mean that in such logic as in your post that Jesus is a pagan god? Just because the titles are the same?

[Cronos]

you still haven’t answered — “king of kings”, “lord of lord”, “god of light” are all titles that were given to old pagan gods — and given to Christ or the Father. Does this, according to your logic, make them pagan gods?

[Cronos]

bkaycee: psalm 69 actually predicts what the NT consistently and matter of factly declares

REALLY? And Psalm 69 just 2 verses before your excerpt says

5O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my sins are not hid from thee.

So, if this is supposed to be Jesus, are you, bkaycee, saying that Jesus sinned?

[Lera]

Maybe just like your namesake you have swallowed a swaddled stone . Yeshua is not a cracker locked in a box and Mary is not the door .

[Lera]

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

If you are trying to reach “ The Father” through Mary then you just might have a swaddled stone instead since Yeshua said he was THE DOOR and the ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER .

[bkaycee]

Perhaps you missed it.

Perhaps you did.

Psalm 69 O God of Israel, 7Because for Thy sake I have borne reproach; Dishonor has covered my face. 8 I have become estranged from MY BROTHERS, and an alien to my MOTHERS SONS.

Are my mothers sons, My COUSINS?

[bkaycee]

So, if this is supposed to be Jesus, are you, bkaycee, saying that Jesus sinned? Psalm 69 is recognized by the Catholic Church as messianic. Is the Roman church also claiming Jesus was a sinner?

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/messianic_prophecies.html

[bkaycee]

So, if this is supposed to be Jesus, are you, bkaycee, saying that Jesus sinned?

Psalm 69 is recognized by the Catholic Church as messianic. Is the Roman church also claiming Jesus was a sinner?

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/messianic_prophecies.html

[bkaycee]

The issue of Mary's virginity for protestants is a non issue after the Virgin birth of Jesus Christ, but for the Roman church, to maintain the required belief in the Marian dogmas (Immaculate Conception, Assumption) for entrance to heaven, it is easier if she remained ever Virgin.

So no matter what scripture plainly states about Mary, Roman Catholics cannot agree because it will cost them salvation. This also displays the "actual" pecking order of authority in Rome, Church 1st, Scripture subordinate.

[Cronos]

bkaycee: psalm 69 actually predicts what the NT consistently and matter of factly declares

REALLY? And Psalm 69 just 2 verses before your excerpt says

5O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my sins are not hid from thee.

So, if this is supposed to be Jesus, are you, bkaycee, saying that Jesus sinned? why? Why do you say that? Christianity says Jesus was without sin -- don't you believe that?

[Cronos]

Lera: The "----" has an old history and all the nations of the earth were drunken in "---" -- you can add in any title like King of Kings, Lord of Lords, El, etc. and these were titles given to old pagan gods as well ---> does this mean that your group,Lera, would consider Jesus a pagan god because of titles given that are similar to pagan gods titles?

So, does one say that because we use the term "God of Light" for Jesus, Jesus is some kind of pagan god?

Just because there were pagan gods who used the same title? Really?

Lera: He is KING OF KINGS

Wait -- Daniel 2:37 addressed to Nebuchadnezzar 37Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. -- shock! Jesus is given a title that was once used by a PAGAN king!

does this mean that in such logic (and this is a question mind you), that Jesus is a pagan god

Lera: He is KING OF KINGS

Wait -- Osiris, the Egyptian God from 2000 BC was called King of Kings -- shock! Jesus is given a title that was once used by a PAGAN king!

does this mean that in such logic as in your post that Jesus is a pagan god?

Lera: He is LORD OF LORDS

Wait -- Osiris, the Egyptian God from 2000 BC was called "He was called Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods...the Resurrection and the Life, the Good shepherd...the god who 'made men and women be born again" -- shock! Jesus is given a title that was once used by a PAGAN god!

does this mean that in such logic as in your post that Jesus is a pagan god? Just because he has a title that was earlier given to a pagan god?

[Cronos]

you still haven’t answered — “king of kings”, “lord of lord”, “god of light” are all titles that were given to old pagan gods — and given to Christ or the Father. Does this, according to your logic, make them pagan gods? how could you or anyone believe this?

[Cronos]

let's go it over with you again slowly. your post said that usage of a title signifies the two are the same, right?

The Titles "king of kings","Lord of lords", "God of Light" even "El" were all applied to pagan gods/kings from Osiris to Baal to Nebuchadnezzar

Do you mean to say that just because Jesus was given the same titles as Osiris, Jesus is the same as Osiris, the Egyptian God?

[Cronos]

Remember, Psalm 69 just 2 verses before your excerpt says

5O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my sins are not hid from thee.

So, if this is supposed to be Jesus, are you, bkaycee, saying that Jesus sinned?

Wow, the ways your group's philosophy deviates from Christian thought is amazing!

[Natural Law]

"Just because there were pagan gods who used the same title?"

How ironic that Lera would think it OK to use the word "God", which does have pagan origins, instead of Yahweh or Jehovah while criticizing you.

[bkaycee]

So, if this is supposed to be Jesus, are you, bkaycee, saying that Jesus sinned?

Wow, the ways your group's philosophy deviates from Christian thought is amazing!

Jesus is certainly sinless.

The Roman church recognizes Psalm 69 as Messianic. So using your logic the Roman church considers Jesus a sinner?