Did Mary Have Other Children?

Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry ^ | Unknown | Matt Slick

[HarleyD]

One of the more controversial teachings of the Catholic church deals with the perpetual virginity of Mary. This doctrine maintains that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus and that biblical references suggesting Jesus had siblings are really references to cousins (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 510).

As the veneration of Mary increased throughout the centuries, the vehicle of Sacred Tradition became the means of promoting new doctrines not explicitly taught in the Bible. The virginity of Mary is clearly taught in scripture when describing the birth of Jesus. But is the doctrine of her continued virginity supported by the Bible? Did Mary lose her virginity after Jesus was born? Does the Bible reveal that Mary had other children, that Jesus had brothers and sisters?

The Bible does not come out and declare that Mary remained a virgin and that she had no children. In fact, the Bible seems to state otherwise: (All quotes are from the NASB.)

• Matthew 1:24-25 - "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."
• Matthew 12:46-47 - "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
• Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"
• Mark 6:2-3 - "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?"
• John 2:12 - "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days."
• Acts 1:14 - "These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers."
• 1 Cor. 9:4-5 - "Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?"
• Gal. 1:19 - But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lords brother."

An initial reading of these biblical texts seems to clear up the issue: Jesus had brothers and sisters. But such obvious scriptures are not without their response from Catholic Theologians. The primary argument against these biblical texts is as follows:

In Greek, the word for brother is adelphos and sister is adelphe. This word is used in different contexts: of children of the same parents (Matt. 1:2; 14:3), descendants of parents (Acts 7:23, 26; Heb. 7:5), the Jews as a whole (Acts 3:17, 22), etc. Therefore, the term brother (and sister) can and does refer to the cousins of Jesus.

There is certainly merit in this argument, However, different contexts give different meanings to words. It is not legitimate to say that because a word has a wide scope of meaning, that you may then transfer any part of that range of meaning to any other text that uses the word. In other words, just because the word brother means fellow Jews or cousin in one place, does not mean it has the same meaning in another. Therefore, each verse should be looked at in context to see what it means.

Lets briefly analyze a couple of verses dealing with the brothers of Jesus.

• Matthew 12:46-47, "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
• Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"

In both of these verses, if the brothers of Jesus are not brothers, but His cousins, then who is His mother and who is the carpenters father? In other words, mother here refers to Mary. The carpenter in Matt. 13:55, refers to Joseph. These are literal. Yet, the Catholic theologian will then stop there and say, "Though carpenters son refers to Joseph, and mother refers to Mary, brothers does not mean brothers, but "cousins." This does not seem to be a legitimate assertion. You cannot simply switch contextual meanings in the middle of a sentence unless it is obviously required. The context is clear. This verse is speaking of Joseph, Mary, and Jesus brothers. The whole context is of familial relationship: father, mother, and brothers.

Psalm 69, A Messianic Psalm

There are many arguments pro and con concerning Jesus siblings. But the issue cannot be settled without examining Psalm 69, a Messianic Psalm. Jesus quotes Psalm 69:4 in John 15:25, "But they have done this in order that the word may be fulfilled that is written in their Law, they hated Me without a cause."

He also quotes Psalm 69:9 in John 2:16-17, "and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Fathers house a house of merchandise." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Thy house will consume me."

Clearly, Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm since Jesus quoted it in reference to Himself two times. The reason this is important is because of what is written between the verses that Jesus quoted.

To get the whole context, here is Psalm 69:4-9, "Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; Those who would destroy me are powerful, being wrongfully my enemies, What I did not steal, I then have to restore. 5O God, it is Thou who dost know my folly, And my wrongs are not hidden from Thee. 6May those who wait for Thee not be ashamed through me, O Lord God of hosts; May those who seek Thee not be dishonored through me, O God of Israel, 7Because for Thy sake I have borne reproach; Dishonor has covered my face. 8I have become estranged from my brothers, and an alien to my mothers sons. 9For zeal for Thy house has consumed me, And the reproaches of those who reproach Thee have fallen on me."

This messianic Psalm clearly shows that Jesus has brothers. As Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets." Gods will has been revealed plainly in the New Testament and prophetically in the Old. Psalm 69 shows us that Jesus had brothers.

Did Mary have other children? The Bible seems to suggest yes. Catholic Tradition says no. Which will you trust?

Of course, the Catholic will simply state that even this phrase "my mother's sons" is in reference not to his siblings, but to cousins and other relatives. This is a necessary thing for the Catholic to say, otherwise, the perpetual virginity of Mary is threatened and since that contradicts Roman Catholic tradition, an interpretation that is consistent with that tradition must be adopted.

The question is, "Was Jesus estranged by His brothers?". Yes, He was. John 7:5 says "For not even His brothers were believing in Him." Furthermore, Psalm 69:8 says both "my brothers" and "my mother's sons." Are these both to be understood as not referring to His siblings? Hardly. The Catholics are fond of saying that "brothers" must mean "cousins." But, if that is the case, then when we read "an alien to my mother's sons" we can see that the writer is adding a further distinction and narrowing the scope of meaning. In other words, Jesus was alienated by his siblings, His very half-brothers begotten from Mary.

It is sad to see the Roman Catholic church go to such lengths to maintain Mary's virginity, something that is a violation of biblical law to be married and fill the earth.

[Lera]

There is only ONE DOOR and it isn’t Mary.

[Cronos]

Lera: The "----" has an old history and all the nations of the earth were drunken in "---" -- you can add in any title like King of Kings, Lord of Lords, El, etc. and these were titles given to old pagan gods as well ---> does this mean that your group,Lera, would consider Jesus a pagan god because of titles given that are similar to pagan gods titles?

[bkaycee]

Hmmm. Where in scripture, is Mary given the titles Queen of heaven?

[Cronos]

Perhaps you missed it

brother has shades of meaning because Aramaic and other Semitic languages do not differentiate between a blood brother/sister and a cousin or other

For example

1. MAtt 1:2 "Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers," for step-brothers with the same father but different mothers
2. acts 3:17 "17And now, brethren,"
3. Luke 10:29 "and who is my brother"
4. Matt 5:47
5. Matt 23:8
6. Rev 22:9

So, yes, brothers had a wider meaning then just blood brother. And no, the term "Irdu" is not used biblically.

The NT was written in Greek, ok -- not all, but let's take your argument for the sake of argument. Remember also that the words of Jesus were mostly Aramaic or Hebrew or maybe even GReek -- we've already shown that in SEmitic languages like Aramaic/hebrew there is no differntiating term between a blood brother and a cousin, let's examine the GReek ouch outos estin o tekton o uios Marias adelphos de Iakobou Iose kai Iouda kai Simonos

If the term is that the adelphoi have the same mother then it would be ho adelphos But that is not used. Without the article adelphos is non-specific and non-exclusive and can mean kinsmen, relatives

[Cronos]

Lera: The "----" has an old history and all the nations of the earth were drunken in "---" -- you can add in any title like King of Kings, Lord of Lords, El, etc. and these were titles given to old pagan gods as well ---> does this mean that your group,Lera, would consider Jesus a pagan god because of titles given that are similar to pagan gods titles?

So, does one say that because we use the term "God of Light" for Jesus, Jesus is some kind of pagan god?

Just because there were pagan gods who used the same title? Really?

Lera: He is KING OF KINGS

Wait -- Daniel 2:37 addressed to Nebuchadnezzar 37Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. -- shock! Jesus is given a title that was once used by a PAGAN king!

does this mean that in such logic (and this is a question mind you), that Jesus is a pagan god

Lera: He is KING OF KINGS

Wait -- Osiris, the Egyptian God from 2000 BC was called King of Kings -- shock! Jesus is given a title that was once used by a PAGAN king!

does this mean that in such logic as in your post that Jesus is a pagan god?

Lera: He is LORD OF LORDS

Wait -- Osiris, the Egyptian God from 2000 BC was called "He was called Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods...the Resurrection and the Life, the Good shepherd...the god who 'made men and women be born again" -- shock! Jesus is given a title that was once used by a PAGAN god!

does this mean that in such logic as in your post that Jesus is a pagan god? Just because the titles are the same?

[Cronos]

you still haven’t answered — “king of kings”, “lord of lord”, “god of light” are all titles that were given to old pagan gods — and given to Christ or the Father. Does this, according to your logic, make them pagan gods?

[Cronos]

bkaycee: psalm 69 actually predicts what the NT consistently and matter of factly declares

REALLY? And Psalm 69 just 2 verses before your excerpt says

5O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my sins are not hid from thee.

So, if this is supposed to be Jesus, are you, bkaycee, saying that Jesus sinned?

[Lera]

Maybe just like your namesake you have swallowed a swaddled stone . Yeshua is not a cracker locked in a box and Mary is not the door .

[Lera]

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

If you are trying to reach “ The Father” through Mary then you just might have a swaddled stone instead since Yeshua said he was THE DOOR and the ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER .

[bkaycee]

Perhaps you missed it.

Perhaps you did.

Psalm 69 O God of Israel, 7Because for Thy sake I have borne reproach; Dishonor has covered my face. 8 I have become estranged from MY BROTHERS, and an alien to my MOTHERS SONS.

Are my mothers sons, My COUSINS?

[bkaycee]

So, if this is supposed to be Jesus, are you, bkaycee, saying that Jesus sinned? Psalm 69 is recognized by the Catholic Church as messianic. Is the Roman church also claiming Jesus was a sinner?

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/messianic_prophecies.html

[bkaycee]

So, if this is supposed to be Jesus, are you, bkaycee, saying that Jesus sinned?

Psalm 69 is recognized by the Catholic Church as messianic. Is the Roman church also claiming Jesus was a sinner?

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/messianic_prophecies.html

[bkaycee]

The issue of Mary's virginity for protestants is a non issue after the Virgin birth of Jesus Christ, but for the Roman church, to maintain the required belief in the Marian dogmas (Immaculate Conception, Assumption) for entrance to heaven, it is easier if she remained ever Virgin.

So no matter what scripture plainly states about Mary, Roman Catholics cannot agree because it will cost them salvation. This also displays the "actual" pecking order of authority in Rome, Church 1st, Scripture subordinate.

[Cronos]

bkaycee: psalm 69 actually predicts what the NT consistently and matter of factly declares

REALLY? And Psalm 69 just 2 verses before your excerpt says

5O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my sins are not hid from thee.

So, if this is supposed to be Jesus, are you, bkaycee, saying that Jesus sinned? why? Why do you say that? Christianity says Jesus was without sin -- don't you believe that?

[Cronos]

Lera: The "----" has an old history and all the nations of the earth were drunken in "---" -- you can add in any title like King of Kings, Lord of Lords, El, etc. and these were titles given to old pagan gods as well ---> does this mean that your group,Lera, would consider Jesus a pagan god because of titles given that are similar to pagan gods titles?

So, does one say that because we use the term "God of Light" for Jesus, Jesus is some kind of pagan god?

Just because there were pagan gods who used the same title? Really?

Lera: He is KING OF KINGS

Wait -- Daniel 2:37 addressed to Nebuchadnezzar 37Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. -- shock! Jesus is given a title that was once used by a PAGAN king!

does this mean that in such logic (and this is a question mind you), that Jesus is a pagan god

Lera: He is KING OF KINGS

Wait -- Osiris, the Egyptian God from 2000 BC was called King of Kings -- shock! Jesus is given a title that was once used by a PAGAN king!

does this mean that in such logic as in your post that Jesus is a pagan god?

Lera: He is LORD OF LORDS

Wait -- Osiris, the Egyptian God from 2000 BC was called "He was called Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods...the Resurrection and the Life, the Good shepherd...the god who 'made men and women be born again" -- shock! Jesus is given a title that was once used by a PAGAN god!

does this mean that in such logic as in your post that Jesus is a pagan god? Just because he has a title that was earlier given to a pagan god?

[Cronos]

you still haven’t answered — “king of kings”, “lord of lord”, “god of light” are all titles that were given to old pagan gods — and given to Christ or the Father. Does this, according to your logic, make them pagan gods? how could you or anyone believe this?

[Cronos]

let's go it over with you again slowly. your post said that usage of a title signifies the two are the same, right?

The Titles "king of kings","Lord of lords", "God of Light" even "El" were all applied to pagan gods/kings from Osiris to Baal to Nebuchadnezzar

Do you mean to say that just because Jesus was given the same titles as Osiris, Jesus is the same as Osiris, the Egyptian God?

[Cronos]

Remember, Psalm 69 just 2 verses before your excerpt says

5O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my sins are not hid from thee.

So, if this is supposed to be Jesus, are you, bkaycee, saying that Jesus sinned?

Wow, the ways your group's philosophy deviates from Christian thought is amazing!

[Natural Law]

"Just because there were pagan gods who used the same title?"

How ironic that Lera would think it OK to use the word "God", which does have pagan origins, instead of Yahweh or Jehovah while criticizing you.

[bkaycee]

So, if this is supposed to be Jesus, are you, bkaycee, saying that Jesus sinned?

Wow, the ways your group's philosophy deviates from Christian thought is amazing!

Jesus is certainly sinless.

The Roman church recognizes Psalm 69 as Messianic. So using your logic the Roman church considers Jesus a sinner?