Did Mary Have Other Children?

Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry ^ | Unknown | Matt Slick

[HarleyD]

One of the more controversial teachings of the Catholic church deals with the perpetual virginity of Mary. This doctrine maintains that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus and that biblical references suggesting Jesus had siblings are really references to cousins (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 510).

As the veneration of Mary increased throughout the centuries, the vehicle of Sacred Tradition became the means of promoting new doctrines not explicitly taught in the Bible. The virginity of Mary is clearly taught in scripture when describing the birth of Jesus. But is the doctrine of her continued virginity supported by the Bible? Did Mary lose her virginity after Jesus was born? Does the Bible reveal that Mary had other children, that Jesus had brothers and sisters?

The Bible does not come out and declare that Mary remained a virgin and that she had no children. In fact, the Bible seems to state otherwise: (All quotes are from the NASB.)

• Matthew 1:24-25 - "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."
• Matthew 12:46-47 - "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
• Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"
• Mark 6:2-3 - "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?"
• John 2:12 - "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days."
• Acts 1:14 - "These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers."
• 1 Cor. 9:4-5 - "Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?"
• Gal. 1:19 - But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lords brother."

An initial reading of these biblical texts seems to clear up the issue: Jesus had brothers and sisters. But such obvious scriptures are not without their response from Catholic Theologians. The primary argument against these biblical texts is as follows:

In Greek, the word for brother is adelphos and sister is adelphe. This word is used in different contexts: of children of the same parents (Matt. 1:2; 14:3), descendants of parents (Acts 7:23, 26; Heb. 7:5), the Jews as a whole (Acts 3:17, 22), etc. Therefore, the term brother (and sister) can and does refer to the cousins of Jesus.

There is certainly merit in this argument, However, different contexts give different meanings to words. It is not legitimate to say that because a word has a wide scope of meaning, that you may then transfer any part of that range of meaning to any other text that uses the word. In other words, just because the word brother means fellow Jews or cousin in one place, does not mean it has the same meaning in another. Therefore, each verse should be looked at in context to see what it means.

Lets briefly analyze a couple of verses dealing with the brothers of Jesus.

• Matthew 12:46-47, "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
• Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"

In both of these verses, if the brothers of Jesus are not brothers, but His cousins, then who is His mother and who is the carpenters father? In other words, mother here refers to Mary. The carpenter in Matt. 13:55, refers to Joseph. These are literal. Yet, the Catholic theologian will then stop there and say, "Though carpenters son refers to Joseph, and mother refers to Mary, brothers does not mean brothers, but "cousins." This does not seem to be a legitimate assertion. You cannot simply switch contextual meanings in the middle of a sentence unless it is obviously required. The context is clear. This verse is speaking of Joseph, Mary, and Jesus brothers. The whole context is of familial relationship: father, mother, and brothers.

Psalm 69, A Messianic Psalm

There are many arguments pro and con concerning Jesus siblings. But the issue cannot be settled without examining Psalm 69, a Messianic Psalm. Jesus quotes Psalm 69:4 in John 15:25, "But they have done this in order that the word may be fulfilled that is written in their Law, they hated Me without a cause."

He also quotes Psalm 69:9 in John 2:16-17, "and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Fathers house a house of merchandise." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Thy house will consume me."

Clearly, Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm since Jesus quoted it in reference to Himself two times. The reason this is important is because of what is written between the verses that Jesus quoted.

To get the whole context, here is Psalm 69:4-9, "Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; Those who would destroy me are powerful, being wrongfully my enemies, What I did not steal, I then have to restore. 5O God, it is Thou who dost know my folly, And my wrongs are not hidden from Thee. 6May those who wait for Thee not be ashamed through me, O Lord God of hosts; May those who seek Thee not be dishonored through me, O God of Israel, 7Because for Thy sake I have borne reproach; Dishonor has covered my face. 8I have become estranged from my brothers, and an alien to my mothers sons. 9For zeal for Thy house has consumed me, And the reproaches of those who reproach Thee have fallen on me."

This messianic Psalm clearly shows that Jesus has brothers. As Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets." Gods will has been revealed plainly in the New Testament and prophetically in the Old. Psalm 69 shows us that Jesus had brothers.

Did Mary have other children? The Bible seems to suggest yes. Catholic Tradition says no. Which will you trust?

Of course, the Catholic will simply state that even this phrase "my mother's sons" is in reference not to his siblings, but to cousins and other relatives. This is a necessary thing for the Catholic to say, otherwise, the perpetual virginity of Mary is threatened and since that contradicts Roman Catholic tradition, an interpretation that is consistent with that tradition must be adopted.

The question is, "Was Jesus estranged by His brothers?". Yes, He was. John 7:5 says "For not even His brothers were believing in Him." Furthermore, Psalm 69:8 says both "my brothers" and "my mother's sons." Are these both to be understood as not referring to His siblings? Hardly. The Catholics are fond of saying that "brothers" must mean "cousins." But, if that is the case, then when we read "an alien to my mother's sons" we can see that the writer is adding a further distinction and narrowing the scope of meaning. In other words, Jesus was alienated by his siblings, His very half-brothers begotten from Mary.

It is sad to see the Roman Catholic church go to such lengths to maintain Mary's virginity, something that is a violation of biblical law to be married and fill the earth.

[Cronos]

dares speak about something - whoop there it is! --- posts his anti-OPC diatribes

Strangely, I've never seen your posts protesting when some of the antis start with their changing of topic -- not once throughout all these years.

hypocrisy is spelt with an 's'

[Cronos]

From those you mention, we see canned text accusation repeated countless times also.
They have been refuted, with reason and facts by patient posters many many times.
Even debunked, here come the same canned accusations.
After a long while, we shouldn’t be surprised to see responses and attacks in kind.

Exactly -- how hypocritical can folks get? For years they looked on benignly while these others merrily did their shoot and run. Now the fire turns on the various ____ and we hear the squeals.

[Cronos]

D-fendr: For example.. with more of the same canned repetitive reason-free insults.

Exactly -- how come there were no boatbums posts crying out about "anti-...diatribes"?

oh, I get it, it's fine if the receiving end is The Church, but not any of the believers in Jesse Duplantis etc?...

[Cronos]

D-fendr: For example.. with more of the same canned repetitive reason-free insults.

Exactly -- how come there were no boatbums posts crying out about "anti-...diatribes"?

oh, I get it, it's fine if the receiving end is The Church, but not any of the believers in Jesse Duplantis etc, right?...

[Cronos]

Let me give you another example of the limitations of one who only knows English which does not have gender assigned to inanimate objects and tries to misinterpret something written in Koine Greek: Petros

1. Have you read Matthew? You don't see the part where Jesus gives Simeon a different name -- Petros/Kepha/Piotr/Pierre? And don't you know that Petros/Kepha/Pierre means ROCK? Simeon was his original name and is from Hebrew שִׁמְעוֹן Šimʻôn, meaning "he [God] has heard." Yet in

Matthew 16:18And I tell you that you are Kepha/Petros/Petra/Rock/Peter,[c] and on this kepha/petra/rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.[e] 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[f] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[g] loosed in heaven

2. Of course Jesus refers to the man as Peter or as Simon. Just as Jesus Himself is referred to either either Jesus or The Christ, just as Saul and Paul meant the same man.

Now the arguments about Petra vs Petros

Petra means rock and is feminine in origin --> for someone like you, quix who may know only English, it's difficult to understand languages that give gender to inanimate objects

But they do -- all Indo-European languages except English DO have this Genders for inanimate objects

the gospel writer translting to Greek from Aramaic/hebrew can't call Simeon a girl's name "Petra" so he uses the masculine version of that name "Petros".

Jesus never called Peter “Petros,” or “Petra.” He called him Cephas, a name also used by Paul. Koine Greek, throughout the Old Testament Greek, always uses “Petra” for rock; when he translated “Cephas” into Greek, however, Matthew chose “Petros,” the male form of the word.

“Petros” is not a diminuitive of “Petra,” and occurs as such in no Christian writing.

To make petra into a man's proper name, you have to switch it to a masculine declension, so it becomes "Petros". Jesus could not have named Simon "Petra" if he'd wanted to, so the argument that there's some significance in him not naming him "Petra" is evidence of not understanding how languages use gender for inanimate objects

[Hegewisch Dupa]

Great post!

[Cronos]

Unitarian universalism — the last refuge for the confused, where they believe in “biblical unitarianism” and use sola scriptura to prove their belief that Jesus ain’t God.

[Cronos]

What is the Unitarian Universalist definition of sin?

A discussion group in which everyone agrees with each other.

[Cronos]

A unitarian family moves into a new neighborhood. Their little girl finds a new playmate, and they are happily getting to know each other. One day, the playmate says, "We're Episcopalians, what are you?"

The unitarian child thinks for a minute and says, "I'm not sure, but I think we're League of Women Voters."

[Cronos]

Unitarian Universalists, especialy the biblical sola scriptura ones believe in One God - More or Less.

[Cronos]

when the Unitarian was asked if he believed in anything

, the man responded, "Oh no; I'm a Unitarian."

[Lera]

As a Catholic, I find your mocking, anti-Catholic rhetoric appalling, outrageous and offensive to the extreme. How you all can be allowed to post such scurrilous bigotry and blatantly hateful and demeaning remarks here about my faith, ANYone’s Christian faith of another denomination or any FReeper’s personal faith is beyond me.
Who made you the arbiter of anyone’s religious beliefs? There’s only ONE who knows the true heart and intentions of each of us, and He’s not a FReeper.
God help you.

Do you know what the difference between America and Ninneveh is ?
When Jonah preached to Ninneveh the king called the nation to national repentance and the people repented and changed their ways
and because they did God gave them another 100 years before destroying the city.


Jonah 3:1 And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying,
:2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.
:3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.
:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
:5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
:6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
:7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
:8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. :9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.


Instead of repenting our king is going full steam ahead to destroy this country and start WWIII . Americans are being preached to even right here on FR and instead of repenting they are taking it as an insult .


Your tag line says...
The overlords are in place .. we are a nation under siege .. pray, go Galt & hunker down

The overlords are in place ... true we are a nation under siege ... true pray , go Galt & hunker down ...lol that is not going to help

Praying to idols and asking them to help will not change a thing and America is now quite full of people who bow down to idols and ask them for help instead of repenting and praying to whom they are suppose to. America is quite full of people who get insulted when they are asked to repent . BTW repentance starts with those whom say they know God and are called by his name . If you don't want to hear things like this you don't need to come to open religious threads

Take a good look to whom Jesus taught us to pray to and how to pray.These words are printed in red in the Bible


Mathew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.


There is NOT one hail Mary in the Bible , NOT ONE ... it's not in there but the "Queen of Heaven" is in there.
Jer 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.


This is brought judgement and national destruction to the northern kingdom of Israel because they would not repent they were taken as slaves and scattered to the nations.(lot's of them were killed too)


The queen of heaven has an old history and all the nations of the earth were drunken in her , she goes by many names and she seduces people into bowing to her instead of our Creator.

[Cronos]

So, are you saying the because we use the term "King of Kings" for Jesus, Jesus is some kind of pagan god?

Just because there were pagan gods who used the same title? Really?

[Cronos]

So, does one say that because we use the term "God of Light" for Jesus, Jesus is some kind of pagan god?

Just because there were pagan gods who used the same title? Really?

[Lera]

We have a KING and he is seated at the RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER . He is KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS .
And as the angel Gabriel promised to Mary he will have a kingdom .
Right now we have a KING without a kingdom and a there is kingdom without a king ... that will change at HIS return .
He is not a cracker locked in a little gold box .

[Lera]

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
2Th 2:17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

[Cronos]

Lera: He is KING OF KINGS

Wait -- Daniel 2:37 addressed to Nebuchadnezzar 37Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. -- shock! Jesus is given a title that was once used by a PAGAN king!

does this mean that in such logic (and this is a question mind you), that Jesus is a pagan god?

[Cronos]

Lera: He is KING OF KINGS

Wait -- Osiris, the Egyptian God from 2000 BC was called King of Kings -- shock! Jesus is given a title that was once used by a PAGAN king!

does this mean that in such logic as in your post that Jesus is a pagan god?

[Cronos]

Lera: He is LORD OF LORDS

Wait -- Osiris, the Egyptian God from 2000 BC was called "He was called Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods...the Resurrection and the Life, the Good shepherd...the god who 'made men and women be born again" -- shock! Jesus is given a title that was once used by a PAGAN god!

does this mean that in such logic as in your post that Jesus is a pagan god? Just because the titles are the same?

[bkaycee]

Psalm 69 O God of Israel, 7Because for Thy sake I have borne reproach; Dishonor has covered my face. 8 I have become estranged from my brothers, and an alien to my mothers sons. 9For zeal for Thy house has consumed me, And the reproaches of those who reproach Thee have fallen on me."

Messianic Psalm 69, actually predicts what the NT consistently and matter of factly declares. Jesus had brothers and sisters. John was given responsibility for Mary, because Jesus had "become ESTRANGED from my brothers an ALIEN to my MOTHERS SONS."

I believe the Lord went out of His way to drop hints that Mary should NOT be idolized. IE Luke 11:27 As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.” 28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”