Did Mary Have Other Children?

Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry ^ | Unknown | Matt Slick

[HarleyD]

One of the more controversial teachings of the Catholic church deals with the perpetual virginity of Mary. This doctrine maintains that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus and that biblical references suggesting Jesus had siblings are really references to cousins (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 510).

As the veneration of Mary increased throughout the centuries, the vehicle of Sacred Tradition became the means of promoting new doctrines not explicitly taught in the Bible. The virginity of Mary is clearly taught in scripture when describing the birth of Jesus. But is the doctrine of her continued virginity supported by the Bible? Did Mary lose her virginity after Jesus was born? Does the Bible reveal that Mary had other children, that Jesus had brothers and sisters?

The Bible does not come out and declare that Mary remained a virgin and that she had no children. In fact, the Bible seems to state otherwise: (All quotes are from the NASB.)

• Matthew 1:24-25 - "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."
• Matthew 12:46-47 - "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
• Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"
• Mark 6:2-3 - "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?"
• John 2:12 - "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days."
• Acts 1:14 - "These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers."
• 1 Cor. 9:4-5 - "Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?"
• Gal. 1:19 - But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lords brother."

An initial reading of these biblical texts seems to clear up the issue: Jesus had brothers and sisters. But such obvious scriptures are not without their response from Catholic Theologians. The primary argument against these biblical texts is as follows:

In Greek, the word for brother is adelphos and sister is adelphe. This word is used in different contexts: of children of the same parents (Matt. 1:2; 14:3), descendants of parents (Acts 7:23, 26; Heb. 7:5), the Jews as a whole (Acts 3:17, 22), etc. Therefore, the term brother (and sister) can and does refer to the cousins of Jesus.

There is certainly merit in this argument, However, different contexts give different meanings to words. It is not legitimate to say that because a word has a wide scope of meaning, that you may then transfer any part of that range of meaning to any other text that uses the word. In other words, just because the word brother means fellow Jews or cousin in one place, does not mean it has the same meaning in another. Therefore, each verse should be looked at in context to see what it means.

Lets briefly analyze a couple of verses dealing with the brothers of Jesus.

• Matthew 12:46-47, "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
• Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"

In both of these verses, if the brothers of Jesus are not brothers, but His cousins, then who is His mother and who is the carpenters father? In other words, mother here refers to Mary. The carpenter in Matt. 13:55, refers to Joseph. These are literal. Yet, the Catholic theologian will then stop there and say, "Though carpenters son refers to Joseph, and mother refers to Mary, brothers does not mean brothers, but "cousins." This does not seem to be a legitimate assertion. You cannot simply switch contextual meanings in the middle of a sentence unless it is obviously required. The context is clear. This verse is speaking of Joseph, Mary, and Jesus brothers. The whole context is of familial relationship: father, mother, and brothers.

Psalm 69, A Messianic Psalm

There are many arguments pro and con concerning Jesus siblings. But the issue cannot be settled without examining Psalm 69, a Messianic Psalm. Jesus quotes Psalm 69:4 in John 15:25, "But they have done this in order that the word may be fulfilled that is written in their Law, they hated Me without a cause."

He also quotes Psalm 69:9 in John 2:16-17, "and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Fathers house a house of merchandise." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Thy house will consume me."

Clearly, Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm since Jesus quoted it in reference to Himself two times. The reason this is important is because of what is written between the verses that Jesus quoted.

To get the whole context, here is Psalm 69:4-9, "Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; Those who would destroy me are powerful, being wrongfully my enemies, What I did not steal, I then have to restore. 5O God, it is Thou who dost know my folly, And my wrongs are not hidden from Thee. 6May those who wait for Thee not be ashamed through me, O Lord God of hosts; May those who seek Thee not be dishonored through me, O God of Israel, 7Because for Thy sake I have borne reproach; Dishonor has covered my face. 8I have become estranged from my brothers, and an alien to my mothers sons. 9For zeal for Thy house has consumed me, And the reproaches of those who reproach Thee have fallen on me."

This messianic Psalm clearly shows that Jesus has brothers. As Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets." Gods will has been revealed plainly in the New Testament and prophetically in the Old. Psalm 69 shows us that Jesus had brothers.

Did Mary have other children? The Bible seems to suggest yes. Catholic Tradition says no. Which will you trust?

Of course, the Catholic will simply state that even this phrase "my mother's sons" is in reference not to his siblings, but to cousins and other relatives. This is a necessary thing for the Catholic to say, otherwise, the perpetual virginity of Mary is threatened and since that contradicts Roman Catholic tradition, an interpretation that is consistent with that tradition must be adopted.

The question is, "Was Jesus estranged by His brothers?". Yes, He was. John 7:5 says "For not even His brothers were believing in Him." Furthermore, Psalm 69:8 says both "my brothers" and "my mother's sons." Are these both to be understood as not referring to His siblings? Hardly. The Catholics are fond of saying that "brothers" must mean "cousins." But, if that is the case, then when we read "an alien to my mother's sons" we can see that the writer is adding a further distinction and narrowing the scope of meaning. In other words, Jesus was alienated by his siblings, His very half-brothers begotten from Mary.

It is sad to see the Roman Catholic church go to such lengths to maintain Mary's virginity, something that is a violation of biblical law to be married and fill the earth.

[Judith Anne]

Lots of confusion there.

When I ask a question about which "Holy Bible" you consider authoritative, based on your post of the Holy Spirit's presence, and you refuse to answer, I am not the one who is confused.

Romans 2:8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

So....where are all those fruits of the Holy Spirit you claim? We should expect them to be manifest, right?

[Cronos]

And, for someone who's so interested in "TO SCRIPTURE AS THE ISSUE SETTLING AUTHORITY." how come you hold to Jesse Ventura's heresies and say that Jesse teaches the Pentecostal Christian faith?

how can anyone support Benny Hinn's numerous blasphemies and false teachings and still believe that Benny teaches the Christian faith?

[Cronos]

OR; We do not need any Chriistian Church to maintain the Tanach.

The "Biblical Unitarians"

The Unitarians believe that they don't need anything to maintain anything. What a bunch of clueless maroons!

[Cronos]

Quix: The whole idea that those languages were so inadequate as to be unable to distinguish between cousins vs brothers and sisters

Do you even KNOW any languages besides English? Even Spanish is a simplified language?

Do you know the limitations or the subtleties of Greek or Aramaic or Hebrew?

brother has shades of meaning because Aramaic and other Semitic languages do not differentiate between a blood brother/sister and a cousin or other

For example

1. MAtt 1:2 "Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers," for step-brothers with the same father but different mothers
2. acts 3:17 "17And now, brethren,"
3. Luke 10:29 "and who is my brother"
4. Matt 5:47
5. Matt 23:8
6. Rev 22:9

So, yes, brothers had a wider meaning then just blood brother. And no, the term "Irdu" is not used biblically.

The NT was written in Greek, ok -- not all, but let's take your argument for the sake of argument. Remember also that the words of Jesus were mostly Aramaic or Hebrew or maybe even GReek -- we've already shown that in SEmitic languages like Aramaic/hebrew there is no differntiating term between a blood brother and a cousin, let's examine the GReek ouch outos estin o tekton o uios Marias adelphos de Iakobou Iose kai Iouda kai Simonos

If the term is that the adelphoi have the same mother then it would be ho adelphos But that is not used. Without the article adelphos is non-specific and non-exclusive and can mean kinsmen, relatives

[Cronos]

going to interpret that to mean anything other than

That's very egotistical -- don't you try to interpret it, let the Holy SPirit interpret as He has for 2000 years. Don't blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, Quix

[Quix]

Incredible some of the silly conclusions folks can come to about the Bereans.

Sometimes it seems like the terminal obtuseness has become a passionate addiction.

[OLD REGGIE]

Where is the Gospel? "Hold fast to the traditions you received from us, either by our word or by letter." (2 Thessalonians 3:15)

If you guys do not hold to the traditions of the Church, how can you consider yourselves Christians?

Strangely, you quote Paul????????

In any event please make note of the tense. Pay attention now - it is Past Tense. Stretch the meaning a little and it is not unreasonable to consider Present Tense. (ie, during the life of the Apostles.) Never, no where, no how, can you find acceptance of "Tradiition To Be Developed."

[Titanites]

CHRIST CREATOR GOD was standing there right in front of them--The Creator of all that is. AND HE referred NOT TO HIMSELF, NOT EVEN TO THE FATHER BUT TO SCRIPTURE AS THE ISSUE SETTLING AUTHORITY. I honestly don't see how much plainer it could be--short of a burning bush experience declaring it bluntly so. And yet, I can't recall a single RC on FR ever dealing with the facts of the above, much less the logic, context, implications. All we've gotten have been rationalizations and worse.

But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

The church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

[Cronos]

Petros

1. Have you read Matthew? You don't see the part where Jesus gives Simeon a different name -- Petros/Kepha/Piotr/Pierre? And don't you know that Petros/Kepha/Pierre means ROCK? Simeon was his original name and is from Hebrew שִׁמְעוֹן Šimʻôn, meaning "he [God] has heard." Yet in

Matthew 16:18And I tell you that you are Kepha/Petros/Petra/Rock/Peter,[c] and on this kepha/petra/rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.[e] 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[f] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[g] loosed in heaven

2. Of course Jesus refers to the man as Peter or as Simon. Just as Jesus Himself is referred to either either Jesus or The Christ, just as Saul and Paul meant the same man.

Now the arguments about Petra vs Petros

Petra means rock and is feminine in origin --> for someone like you, quix who may know only English, it's difficult to understand languages that give gender to inanimate objects

But they do -- all Indo-European languages except English DO have this Genders for inanimate objects

the gospel writer translting to Greek from Aramaic/hebrew can't call Simeon a girl's name "Petra" so he uses the masculine version of that name "Petros".

Jesus never called Peter “Petros,” or “Petra.” He called him Cephas, a name also used by Paul. Koine Greek, throughout the Old Testament Greek, always uses “Petra” for rock; when he translated “Cephas” into Greek, however, Matthew chose “Petros,” the male form of the word.

“Petros” is not a diminuitive of “Petra,” and occurs as such in no Christian writing.

To make petra into a man's proper name, you have to switch it to a masculine declension, so it becomes "Petros". Jesus could not have named Simon "Petra" if he'd wanted to, so the argument that there's some significance in him not naming him "Petra" is evidence of not understanding how languages use gender for inanimate objects

[Cronos]

When did SUPER CRASS

become a RELIGIOUS DUTY OF OBLIGATION

i dunno -- probably you can ask these guys

Remember, Jesse noted the following new revelation of Jesse about heaven

1. "Some people don't live close to God the way they should. They know Jesus as their Savior, but they could do so much better. In heaven they will eventually be able to go to God’s Throne, but it takes more time for them." -- interesting, even in heaven?

2. "They almost got there; then they stopped, turned around and had to go back. It seemed as if they were depressed. I heard someone say, "There is no depression here. Just eat of the Tree of Life, smell the leaves for healing and let your spirit grow. You shall stand at the Throne of God."" --> interesting, the sanctification process isn't completed in heaven?

3. David tells Jesse "I think I should have allowed more of the answer to come through, instead of the complaining. " --> oh, so Jesse thinks that scripture is NOT inspired, but what David allowed to come through? -- what unbiblical words from hell spoken by the demonic possessed fraud Jesse Duplantis

4. "I didn’t know before how much He needed me to reach out to other people. I have always thought of how much I needed Him, not how much He needs me. . .He smiled at me and said, "I chose you. No one else wanted you, and I need you Jesse." --> ego surfing!

Oh, wait, don't you defend Benny's 9 gods by saying Quix: "Many folks assume that because Benny Hinn doesn't fit our notions of integrity and a lot of other truly very important factors--GOD SIMPLY COULD NOT AND WOULD NOT EVER USE HIM IN ANY WAY FOR ANY REASON IN ANY CONTEXT." or If God chooses to use Benny, that’s God’s business.

And for Jesse the demonic con-man what little I’ve watched of Jesse has been edifying. He is exceedingly Biblical—way above average, imho.

And the winnah!!

Quix: Jesse believes in the basic Biblical doctrines of evangelical Pentecostal Christianity

really???

[Cronos]

Jesse {Duplantis} believes in the basic Biblical doctrines of evangelical Pentecostal Christianity

really???

[Quix]

Lots of silliness can be generated that way . . .

Judas went and hanged himself.

Whatsoever you do, do wholeheartedly as unto The Lord.

Whatsoever you do, do quickly.

[Cronos]

Jesse {Duplantis} believes in the basic Biblical doctrines of evangelical Pentecostal Christianity

really???

Don't you see the sheer blasphemy in the following statements?

By Jesse Duplantis

God has the power to take life, but He can’t.
He’s got the power to do it, but He won’t. He’s bound; He can’t.
He says, “Death and life is in the power of” who’s tongue? Yours. You ready for this? You want something that’ll knock your lights off?
You choose when you live; you choose when you die. Death and life is in the power of your tongue, not God’s.

"Adam (not God) breathed life into animals"

“The very first thing on Jesus’ agenda was to get rid of poverty!

"With fierce prayers and determination to see my mother healed, I started talking to God. "What is going on here?! I'm praying! Dad's praying! Why isn't she healed? You cannot allow death to defeat me, God. You made a covenant with me through Jesus' blood! And that covenant says by His stripes we were healed! Where is that healing? If you break this covenant with me, you'll have to cease to be God! You must keep covenant with me. You must obey your Word!"

God tells Jesse: "You have Me in a hard place, Jesse. Someone has got to give in. Get yourselves together and tell Me what I am to do!" --> So God needs Jesse to tell Him what to do?

By benny hinn

God has 9 parts (tri-theistic).
A. God has a body, soul and spirit.
B. Jesus has a body, soul and spirit.
C. Holy Spirit has a body, soul and spirit. (Benny Hinn, Benny Hinn broadcast, recorded 10/13/90)

"He [Jesus] who is righteous by choice said, 'The only way I can stop sin is by Me becoming it. I can't just stop it by letting it touch Me; I and it must become one.' Hear this! He who is the nature of God became the nature of Satan where He became sin!" (Benny Hinn, TBN, 12/1/90).

[presently no screen name]

The Holy Scripture is indeed important and God breathed,

Important? LOL! Kinda WEAK but on par for a 'God's Word is not enough' believer who wants MORE and only man made doctrine can satisfy those needs.

JESUS said IT is WRITTEN to satan. He didn't like it then and he doesn't like it NOW!!

Saying IT IS WRITTEN and satan's minions squirm pushing their man made doctrine! LOL~~ NOTHING new under the sun.

Say it LOUD and OFTEN It Is Written and watch the carries of the Adam/Eve Disease rebel with there is more - God held back and man(snake) will tell you what it is!

[Cronos]

does Jesse Duplantis' revelation that God is a mile-high and surrounded by a huge wall and actually in the shape of a man, is that what you would consider "revealed to us"? Is it a new revelation?

for instance, Jesse says

I saw Him! I saw Elohim, Jehovah God, Yahweh sitting on the Throne! But I saw His feet - only His feet. . . He is so big - you can’t describe Him in a dimension. His hand is huge! His body, the form of it, is sort of like energy, spirit. There’s a wall around the Throne, but the Throne is higher than the wall - that’s why you can see the Throne from every direction, from a distance. And that power, that energy-like smoke of God, covers all around the chair of the Throne itself."

besides the fact that this contradicts I Tim. 6:16 16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. -- is this what "He has revealed to us"? Should Jesse's revelations be taken as true?

Why do you believe him?

how can anyone say Jesse Duplantis’ Heaven visit revealed a visual experience at The Throne vis a vis Christ being in The Father and The Father being in Christ that portrayed it about as well as I’d ever heard of.

when Jesse, the demonic con-man Duplantis gives a new revelation that God is a mile-high and surrounded by a huge wall and actually in the shape of a man, is that what you would consider "revealed to us"? Is it a new revelation?

[Cronos]

This is the same Jesse Duplantis who says

"With fierce prayers and determination to see my mother healed, I started talking to God. "What is going on here?! I'm praying! Dad's praying! Why isn't she healed? You cannot allow death to defeat me, God. You made a covenant with me through Jesus' blood! And that covenant says by His stripes we were healed! Where is that healing? If you break this covenant with me, you'll have to cease to be God! You must keep covenant with me. You must obey your Word!"

[Cronos]

pnsm: Who follows man made doctrine?

Folks like your cult that refuses to acknowledge that Jesus Christ rose from the dead -- yeah, right, He did rise from the dead and He is God.

[Titanites]

Lots of silliness can be generated that way

Careful. You're talking about what is WRITTEN.

I can't recall a single Non-Catholic on FR ever dealing with the facts of the above, much less the logic, context, implications. All we've gotten have been rationalizations and worse.

[Cronos]

pnsm: watch the carries of the Adam/Eve Disease rebel with there is more -

"watch the carries"? need a tissue to wipe away the spittle?

[Cronos]

pnsm: Say it LOUD and OFTEN It Is Written

Does that sect follow that with Inshallah?