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Did Mary Have Other Children?
Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry ^ | Unknown | Matt Slick

Posted on 06/13/2011 3:57:07 PM PDT by HarleyD

One of the more controversial teachings of the Catholic church deals with the perpetual virginity of Mary. This doctrine maintains that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus and that biblical references suggesting Jesus had siblings are really references to cousins (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 510).

As the veneration of Mary increased throughout the centuries, the vehicle of Sacred Tradition became the means of promoting new doctrines not explicitly taught in the Bible. The virginity of Mary is clearly taught in scripture when describing the birth of Jesus. But is the doctrine of her continued virginity supported by the Bible? Did Mary lose her virginity after Jesus was born? Does the Bible reveal that Mary had other children, that Jesus had brothers and sisters?

The Bible does not come out and declare that Mary remained a virgin and that she had no children. In fact, the Bible seems to state otherwise: (All quotes are from the NASB.)

An initial reading of these biblical texts seems to clear up the issue: Jesus had brothers and sisters. But such obvious scriptures are not without their response from Catholic Theologians. The primary argument against these biblical texts is as follows:

In Greek, the word for brother is adelphos and sister is adelphe. This word is used in different contexts: of children of the same parents (Matt. 1:2; 14:3), descendants of parents (Acts 7:23, 26; Heb. 7:5), the Jews as a whole (Acts 3:17, 22), etc. Therefore, the term brother (and sister) can and does refer to the cousins of Jesus.

There is certainly merit in this argument, However, different contexts give different meanings to words. It is not legitimate to say that because a word has a wide scope of meaning, that you may then transfer any part of that range of meaning to any other text that uses the word. In other words, just because the word brother means fellow Jews or cousin in one place, does not mean it has the same meaning in another. Therefore, each verse should be looked at in context to see what it means.

Lets briefly analyze a couple of verses dealing with the brothers of Jesus.

In both of these verses, if the brothers of Jesus are not brothers, but His cousins, then who is His mother and who is the carpenters father? In other words, mother here refers to Mary. The carpenter in Matt. 13:55, refers to Joseph. These are literal. Yet, the Catholic theologian will then stop there and say, "Though carpenters son refers to Joseph, and mother refers to Mary, brothers does not mean brothers, but "cousins." This does not seem to be a legitimate assertion. You cannot simply switch contextual meanings in the middle of a sentence unless it is obviously required. The context is clear. This verse is speaking of Joseph, Mary, and Jesus brothers. The whole context is of familial relationship: father, mother, and brothers.

Psalm 69, A Messianic Psalm

There are many arguments pro and con concerning Jesus siblings. But the issue cannot be settled without examining Psalm 69, a Messianic Psalm. Jesus quotes Psalm 69:4 in John 15:25, "But they have done this in order that the word may be fulfilled that is written in their Law, they hated Me without a cause."

He also quotes Psalm 69:9 in John 2:16-17, "and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Fathers house a house of merchandise." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Thy house will consume me."

Clearly, Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm since Jesus quoted it in reference to Himself two times. The reason this is important is because of what is written between the verses that Jesus quoted.

To get the whole context, here is Psalm 69:4-9, "Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; Those who would destroy me are powerful, being wrongfully my enemies, What I did not steal, I then have to restore. 5O God, it is Thou who dost know my folly, And my wrongs are not hidden from Thee. 6May those who wait for Thee not be ashamed through me, O Lord God of hosts; May those who seek Thee not be dishonored through me, O God of Israel, 7Because for Thy sake I have borne reproach; Dishonor has covered my face. 8I have become estranged from my brothers, and an alien to my mothers sons. 9For zeal for Thy house has consumed me, And the reproaches of those who reproach Thee have fallen on me."

This messianic Psalm clearly shows that Jesus has brothers. As Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets." Gods will has been revealed plainly in the New Testament and prophetically in the Old. Psalm 69 shows us that Jesus had brothers.

Did Mary have other children? The Bible seems to suggest yes. Catholic Tradition says no. Which will you trust?

Of course, the Catholic will simply state that even this phrase "my mother's sons" is in reference not to his siblings, but to cousins and other relatives. This is a necessary thing for the Catholic to say, otherwise, the perpetual virginity of Mary is threatened and since that contradicts Roman Catholic tradition, an interpretation that is consistent with that tradition must be adopted.

The question is, "Was Jesus estranged by His brothers?". Yes, He was. John 7:5 says "For not even His brothers were believing in Him." Furthermore, Psalm 69:8 says both "my brothers" and "my mother's sons." Are these both to be understood as not referring to His siblings? Hardly. The Catholics are fond of saying that "brothers" must mean "cousins." But, if that is the case, then when we read "an alien to my mother's sons" we can see that the writer is adding a further distinction and narrowing the scope of meaning. In other words, Jesus was alienated by his siblings, His very half-brothers begotten from Mary.

It is sad to see the Roman Catholic church go to such lengths to maintain Mary's virginity, something that is a violation of biblical law to be married and fill the earth.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: brothers; cousins; mary; nameonebrother; relatives; stepchildren
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To: smvoice
"And what is the Magisterium but an Expert Speculator with a Vatican t-shirt and Rome Decoder Ring?"

The Magisterium is much more than that. It is the teaching authority of the Church. It consists of all of the bishops of the Church including the bishop of Rome (Pope) and to a large degree all of their predecessors. They are collectively acting under the direct authority of Jesus Christ who promised to protect the teaching of the Church:

"He who hears you, hears me; he who rejects your rejects me, he who rejects me, rejects Him who sent me" (Luke 10:16)

They are under the guidance of the Holy Spirit through Apostolic Succession. Remember no bishop exists, or has ever existed who has not had the hands of a bishop placed upon him during ordination. This is a direct line directly to the original Apostles.

God did not take them lightly, they do not take themselves or their duties lightly, and I shall not take them lightly either.

341 posted on 06/15/2011 3:32:05 PM PDT by Natural Law (For God so loved the world He did not send a book.)
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To: blue-duncan; 1000 silverlings; metmom; boatbums; Quix; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; Dr. Eckleburg; ...
The Philistines took the ark to the temple of Dagon where it remained either in one of the five Philistine cities or in cities in Judah controlled by the Philistines for 20 years. After the successive sackings of the temple in Jerusalem by Egypt, Assyria and Chaldeans, there is no further mention of the ark being in the Temple.

Exactly..the sin was not TOUCHING THE ARK ..it was a sin of disobedience..

If they want to say the ark was Mary I guess it was fine for the pagans to "handle her"

342 posted on 06/15/2011 3:40:24 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Natural Law
Catholicsm 101. I know your post is music to Roman Catholic ears.

Grace 101. "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman who needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Tim. 2:15.

Music to those of us who believe that God has given EVERY BELIEVER the ability to study His word of truth. Through the Holy Spirit, residing in each believer. We don't need to give our God-given abilities to understand His word to anyone else.

343 posted on 06/15/2011 3:41:42 PM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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To: smvoice
"Music to those of us who believe that God has given EVERY BELIEVER the ability to study His word of truth. Through the Holy Spirit, residing in each believer. We don't need to give our God-given abilities to understand His word to anyone else."

Do you then consider the differences in interpretation, both large and small, few and many, between those who call themselves Christians to be unimportant so long as each believes their own interpretation to be true?

Do you not consider the Magisterium and Catholics in general to be Christians and BELIEVERS with the same God-given abilities to understand HIS Word that you claim for yourself?

344 posted on 06/15/2011 3:59:28 PM PDT by Natural Law (For God so loved the world He did not send a book.)
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To: BenKenobi
Does Christ give the keys to the kingdom of heaven to anyone else?

Yes.

345 posted on 06/15/2011 4:20:06 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: OLD REGGIE

Who?


346 posted on 06/15/2011 4:26:07 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: smvoice; Natural Law
Wow, looks he really got you, OR..! The Magisterium is the “qualified expert”. And what is the Magisterium but an Expert Speculator with a Vatican t-shirt and Rome Decoder Ring?

The "Magisterium" is the refuge of last resort when all other smokescreens fail.

347 posted on 06/15/2011 4:37:54 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: Natural Law; smvoice
"...Remember no bishop exists, or has ever existed who has not had the hands of a bishop placed upon him during ordination."

Prove it.

348 posted on 06/15/2011 4:44:59 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: BenKenobi
Who?

I gave you the Scripture. I have no intention of playing games with you.

349 posted on 06/15/2011 4:48:32 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: OLD REGGIE

It says nothing about giving the keys to anyone other than Peter.

I asked a question, you can’t give me a direct answer. Makes me believe that there’s nothing in scripture to support your position.

I’m all for sola scriptura, just it doesn’t back your position.


350 posted on 06/15/2011 4:50:27 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: smvoice

So how do you resolve a dispute.

Say smvoice believes x to be true and I believe something else to be true.

Are we both right? Are we both wrong? Is one of us blessed with the holy spirit? Is one of us not blessed with the holy spirit?

Every Christian should know their faith and should be able to defend their faith. However, scripture establishes the position of bishop, who has the responsibility over their flock. This is called the magisterium.

Part of the problem is because people have rejected the magisterium in favour of their own interpretation.


351 posted on 06/15/2011 4:53:36 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Honkeys for Herman!)
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To: smvoice
Music to those of us who believe that God has given EVERY BELIEVER the ability to study His word of truth. Through the Holy Spirit, residing in each believer. We don't need to give our God-given abilities to understand His word to anyone else.

How many thousands of beliefs of every colour, odour and appearance use this as justification?

Jesus created one Church. Men have created all of those ever since.

“Where the bishop is, there let the multitude of believers be; even as where Jesus is, there is the Catholic Church” -Saint Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, 1st c. A.D.

Where do your beliefs come from? Either God or somewhere else:

Where is the Gospel? "Hold fast to the traditions you received from us, either by our word or by letter." (2 Thessalonians 3:15)

If you guys do not hold to the traditions of the Church, how can you consider yourselves Christians?

352 posted on 06/15/2011 5:29:43 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: BenKenobi
No. Most of the problem is that people have rejected their own God-given ability to understand His word in favour of letting someone else tell them what God is saying. Of course you know that without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the truth is impossible to understand. "But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God." 1 Cor. 2:10.

I'm searching for any Scripture that would tell me that the Magisterium or the Pope would be necessary for my understanding of His word, or my Christian life. I cannot locate a single one. But I DID locate this:

"All SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Tim. 3:16,17.

Now if all I need is Scripture, and the Holy Spirit indwelling me leading me in His word of truth, tell me again WHY I need the Magisterium.

353 posted on 06/15/2011 5:38:02 PM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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To: MarkBsnr

Because the Church doesn’t save, Mark. Belief that Christ died for your sins, and His death is all sufficient for your salvation is what saves. Strangely absent from the RCC.


354 posted on 06/15/2011 5:55:23 PM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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To: BenKenobi
If you are saved, you are indeed blessed with the Holy Spirit.

If you are not saved, the Holy Spirit does not reside in you. It's that simple.

355 posted on 06/15/2011 5:57:15 PM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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To: daniel1212; wmfights
I could be wrong but I think the main reason why we see so many Catholics defend this as well as other extra-Biblical doctrines is that to admit the Church was wrong on any point - especially the ex-cathedra declarations - would be to concede they could be wrong about other things as well. Of course, we non-Catholics have no problem with pointing out where they have erred on a number of very clear Scriptural, first-century doctrines, but for most of them they would rather “go down with the ship” so to speak than ever openly admit their “infallible” magesterium made mistakes. They have bet their eternity on trusting fallible men to be faultless based only upon those very men's proclamation of infallibility.
356 posted on 06/15/2011 6:07:29 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: smvoice
Because the Church doesn’t save, Mark. Belief that Christ died for your sins, and His death is all sufficient for your salvation is what saves. Strangely absent from the RCC.

Interesting choice of wording. The Church was created to teach and to evangelize to the world.

Matthew 28: 18 11 Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go, therefore, 12 and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. 13 And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

That was not given any Tom, Dick or Luther. It was given specifically to the Apostles.

If you have no clue as to what Jesus is and does, that is not salvific. The Church was promised that Jesus will be with us always. Those who choose to walk away from the Church walk away from God. Those who believe as they will violate the repeated commands in the NT to believe as the Church describes. And at what point, does your own belief system violate the basics of Christianity which the Judge will determine at your Judgement? How much variation will He tolerate from Christianity?

Simply taking upon yourself the authority of determining your own beliefs puts you at variance from Christianity.

357 posted on 06/15/2011 6:08:47 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: MarkBsnr
Taking upon myself the authority? Perhaps you didn't read my last post. I won't repeat it, as it seems it was unimportant to you the first time.

But let me ask you something while you're here: When did the Church begin? Could you give me Scriptures, if possible, to back up your answer? Thanks.

358 posted on 06/15/2011 6:13:07 PM PDT by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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To: boatbums
I could be wrong but I think the main reason why we see so many Catholics defend this as well as other extra-Biblical doctrines is that to admit the Church was wrong on any point - especially the ex-cathedra declarations - would be to concede they could be wrong about other things as well.

You're wrong. Tradition precedes Scripture which was chosen as a result of Scripture, not vice versa.

Of course, we non-Catholics have no problem with pointing out where they have erred on a number of very clear Scriptural, first-century doctrines, but for most of them they would rather “go down with the ship” so to speak than ever openly admit their “infallible” magesterium made mistakes.

Consensus Patrum is the authority, rather individual Fathers who wandered away from the Faith.

They have bet their eternity on trusting fallible men to be faultless based only upon those very men's proclamation of infallibility.

Negative. We trust in the words of Jesus Christ and in the creation of His Church. We do not take it upon ourselves to create our own doctrines. That is Scripturally forbidden. I am surprised that so many Protestants claim that authority.

359 posted on 06/15/2011 6:18:07 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: smvoice
Now if all I need is Scripture, and the Holy Spirit indwelling me leading me in His word of truth

So, prior to 1500 or so, no one was saved?

360 posted on 06/15/2011 6:18:36 PM PDT by Jim Noble (The Constitution is overthrown. The Revolution is betrayed.)
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