Did Mary Have Other Children?

Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry ^ | Unknown | Matt Slick

[HarleyD]

One of the more controversial teachings of the Catholic church deals with the perpetual virginity of Mary. This doctrine maintains that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus and that biblical references suggesting Jesus had siblings are really references to cousins (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 510).

As the veneration of Mary increased throughout the centuries, the vehicle of Sacred Tradition became the means of promoting new doctrines not explicitly taught in the Bible. The virginity of Mary is clearly taught in scripture when describing the birth of Jesus. But is the doctrine of her continued virginity supported by the Bible? Did Mary lose her virginity after Jesus was born? Does the Bible reveal that Mary had other children, that Jesus had brothers and sisters?

The Bible does not come out and declare that Mary remained a virgin and that she had no children. In fact, the Bible seems to state otherwise: (All quotes are from the NASB.)

• Matthew 1:24-25 - "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."
• Matthew 12:46-47 - "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
• Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"
• Mark 6:2-3 - "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?"
• John 2:12 - "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days."
• Acts 1:14 - "These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers."
• 1 Cor. 9:4-5 - "Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?"
• Gal. 1:19 - But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lords brother."

An initial reading of these biblical texts seems to clear up the issue: Jesus had brothers and sisters. But such obvious scriptures are not without their response from Catholic Theologians. The primary argument against these biblical texts is as follows:

In Greek, the word for brother is adelphos and sister is adelphe. This word is used in different contexts: of children of the same parents (Matt. 1:2; 14:3), descendants of parents (Acts 7:23, 26; Heb. 7:5), the Jews as a whole (Acts 3:17, 22), etc. Therefore, the term brother (and sister) can and does refer to the cousins of Jesus.

There is certainly merit in this argument, However, different contexts give different meanings to words. It is not legitimate to say that because a word has a wide scope of meaning, that you may then transfer any part of that range of meaning to any other text that uses the word. In other words, just because the word brother means fellow Jews or cousin in one place, does not mean it has the same meaning in another. Therefore, each verse should be looked at in context to see what it means.

Lets briefly analyze a couple of verses dealing with the brothers of Jesus.

• Matthew 12:46-47, "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
• Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"

In both of these verses, if the brothers of Jesus are not brothers, but His cousins, then who is His mother and who is the carpenters father? In other words, mother here refers to Mary. The carpenter in Matt. 13:55, refers to Joseph. These are literal. Yet, the Catholic theologian will then stop there and say, "Though carpenters son refers to Joseph, and mother refers to Mary, brothers does not mean brothers, but "cousins." This does not seem to be a legitimate assertion. You cannot simply switch contextual meanings in the middle of a sentence unless it is obviously required. The context is clear. This verse is speaking of Joseph, Mary, and Jesus brothers. The whole context is of familial relationship: father, mother, and brothers.

Psalm 69, A Messianic Psalm

There are many arguments pro and con concerning Jesus siblings. But the issue cannot be settled without examining Psalm 69, a Messianic Psalm. Jesus quotes Psalm 69:4 in John 15:25, "But they have done this in order that the word may be fulfilled that is written in their Law, they hated Me without a cause."

He also quotes Psalm 69:9 in John 2:16-17, "and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Fathers house a house of merchandise." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Thy house will consume me."

Clearly, Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm since Jesus quoted it in reference to Himself two times. The reason this is important is because of what is written between the verses that Jesus quoted.

To get the whole context, here is Psalm 69:4-9, "Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; Those who would destroy me are powerful, being wrongfully my enemies, What I did not steal, I then have to restore. 5O God, it is Thou who dost know my folly, And my wrongs are not hidden from Thee. 6May those who wait for Thee not be ashamed through me, O Lord God of hosts; May those who seek Thee not be dishonored through me, O God of Israel, 7Because for Thy sake I have borne reproach; Dishonor has covered my face. 8I have become estranged from my brothers, and an alien to my mothers sons. 9For zeal for Thy house has consumed me, And the reproaches of those who reproach Thee have fallen on me."

This messianic Psalm clearly shows that Jesus has brothers. As Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets." Gods will has been revealed plainly in the New Testament and prophetically in the Old. Psalm 69 shows us that Jesus had brothers.

Did Mary have other children? The Bible seems to suggest yes. Catholic Tradition says no. Which will you trust?

Of course, the Catholic will simply state that even this phrase "my mother's sons" is in reference not to his siblings, but to cousins and other relatives. This is a necessary thing for the Catholic to say, otherwise, the perpetual virginity of Mary is threatened and since that contradicts Roman Catholic tradition, an interpretation that is consistent with that tradition must be adopted.

The question is, "Was Jesus estranged by His brothers?". Yes, He was. John 7:5 says "For not even His brothers were believing in Him." Furthermore, Psalm 69:8 says both "my brothers" and "my mother's sons." Are these both to be understood as not referring to His siblings? Hardly. The Catholics are fond of saying that "brothers" must mean "cousins." But, if that is the case, then when we read "an alien to my mother's sons" we can see that the writer is adding a further distinction and narrowing the scope of meaning. In other words, Jesus was alienated by his siblings, His very half-brothers begotten from Mary.

It is sad to see the Roman Catholic church go to such lengths to maintain Mary's virginity, something that is a violation of biblical law to be married and fill the earth.

[Quix]

1. Christ was MOST HOSTILE to bureaucratic pharisaical institutionalized RELIGION quite similar to the Vatican Cult. He certainly was not interested in setting another one up.

2. The Vatican Cult’s mangling of the historical record is hideous.

3. The Vatican Cult’s setting up of the ISHTAR-MARY GODDESS CARICATURE IS A HUGE BLASPHEMOUS INSULT TO JESUS AND THE FATHER as well as a huge insult to the authentic Mary.

4. My love of Scripture of Jesus and of others compells me to articulate the truth about such matters.

5. The Magicsterical political power-mongers establishing the Vatican Cult 300-400 AD may have been great manipulators of the sheeple. However, God is not impressed nor pleased.

[BenKenobi]

Where does it state that Mary had children with Joseph in the bible? The bible talks about the patriarchs, and how they had children with their wives.

Does it come out and say, James, the son of Joseph and the son of Mary?

[BenKenobi]

“1. Christ was MOST HOSTILE to bureaucratic pharisaical institutionalized RELIGION quite similar to the Vatican Cult. He certainly was not interested in setting another one up.”

Then why did he select the 12? Why did he give Peter the power to bind and loose?

[Quix]

1. The 12 were instructed to be . . .

NOT bureaucrats . . . .

but . . . drum roll . . .

SERVANTS OF ALL.

2. He gave the priesthood of ALL BELIEVERS THE POWER TO BIND AND LOOSE.

[HossB86]

You have never read the Old Testament story about the man falling over dead when he touched the Ark of the Old Covenant?

I surely have; but I don't recall anywhere reading this same admonishment about Mary.

I don't recall reading that the animals she rode being struck dead for having touched her; was she carried by men hoisting her around on poles?

More amazing lies concocted by the Roman Carholic Church. And what's more, I'm astounded you would believe such tripe. I pity you that you do.

Hoss

[HossB86]

We pray to Mary....

if you're praying to anyone other than The Lord, you're practicing idolatry.

Yes, it's that simple.

Hoss

[Cronos]

On the contrary in the Bible brother has shades of meaning because Aramaic and other Semitic languages do not differentiate between a blood brother/sister and a cousin or other

For example

1. MAtt 1:2 "Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers," for step-brothers with the same father but different mothers
2. acts 3:17 "17And now, brethren,"
3. Luke 10:29 "and who is my brother"
4. Matt 5:47
5. Matt 23:8
6. Rev 22:9

So, yes, brothers had a wider meaning then just blood brother. And no, the term "Irdu" is not used biblically.

The NT was written in Greek, ok -- not all, but let's take your argument for the sake of argument. Remember also that the words of Jesus were mostly Aramaic or Hebrew or maybe even GReek -- we've already shown that in SEmitic languages like Aramaic/hebrew there is no differntiating term between a blood brother and a cousin, let's examine the GReek ouch outos estin o tekton o uios Marias adelphos de Iakobou Iose kai Iouda kai Simonos

If the term is that the adelphoi have the same mother then it would be ho adelphos But that is not used. Without the article adelphos is non-specific and non-exclusive and can mean kinsmen, relatives

Furthermore, I give you two examples of why He didn't have blood brothers of the same mother

1. Why give John to look after Mary -- that would be quite "rude" (at the very least) to his other brothers, not something a Jew in those days would do
2. Why does Mary act surprised when the Angel tells her she will conceive?

He also had brothers, half brothers.

perhaps brothers from his father's earlier wife maybe, or more plausibly cousins.

Have you been to the Middle-East lately? A guy will call his cousin his brother. This is true of this clan society just as it was in the time of Christ.

More importantly, you have no proof that they were the children of Mary -- if they were, then why did Jesus tell John to take care of His mother? that's a classic affront if he had any brothers through Mary

[aruanan]

No. If anyone would have touched her, the Ark of the New Covenant, they would have died just like the people who touched the Ark of the Old Covenant died.

Scripture that states this?

As painful as seeing salvation's arguing by analogy is seeing your failure to point out at least two problems with the analogy: 1. only those who were not legally authorized to "touch" the ark were struck down; therefore, Joseph, as Mary's husband, would not have been struck down since he was legally authorized to "touch" Mary; 2. it's also an example of amphiboly, where one word is used in two different senses in two different parts of the argument to claim they are alike: but nobody ever had sex with the Ark of the Covenant and nobody was said to have died from having physical contact with Mary (simple touching as happened with the Ark of the Covenant--the guy who put out his hand to keep it from falling when it looked like it would tip over).

[Cronos]

Remember

Mark 6:3 - Jesus was always referred to as “the” son of Mary, not “a” son of Mary.

Luke 2:41-51 - in searching for Jesus and finding Him in the temple, there is never any mention of other siblings.

John 7:3-4; Mark 3:21 - we see that younger “brothers” were advising Jesus. But this would have been extremely disrespectful for devout Jews if these were Jesus’ biological brothers.

Again, John 19:26-27 - it would have been unthinkable for Jesus to commit the care of his mother to a friend if he had brothers.

John 19:25 - 25Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. this proves that James and Joseph are Jesus’ cousins and not his brothers: Mary the wife of Clopas is the sister of the Virgin Mary.

Matt. 27:61, 28:1 - Matthew even refers to Mary the wife of Clopas as “the other Mary.”

Matt. 27:56; Mark 15:47 - Mary the wife of Clopas is the mother of James and Joseph.

Mark 6:3 - James and Joseph are called the “brothers” of Jesus. So James and Joseph are Jesus’ cousins yet referred to as "brothers"

[Cronos]

so, wait a minute -- you dispute this, yet don't you believe that Jesse Duplantis went to heaven and comforted God?

Jesse Duplantis who says Jesse noted the following new revelation of Jesse about heaven

1. "Some people don't live close to God the way they should. They know Jesus as their Savior, but they could do so much better. In heaven they will eventually be able to go to God’s Throne, but it takes more time for them." -- interesting, even in heaven?

2. "They almost got there; then they stopped, turned around and had to go back. It seemed as if they were depressed. I heard someone say, "There is no depression here. Just eat of the Tree of Life, smell the leaves for healing and let your spirit grow. You shall stand at the Throne of God."" --> interesting, the sanctification process isn't completed in heaven?

3. David tells Jesse "I think I should have allowed more of the answer to come through, instead of the complaining. " --> oh, so Jesse thinks that scripture is NOT inspired, but what David allowed to come through? -- what unbiblical words from hell spoken by the demonic possessed fraud Jesse Duplantis

4. "I didn’t know before how much He needed me to reach out to other people. I have always thought of how much I needed Him, not how much He needs me. . .He smiled at me and said, "I chose you. No one else wanted you, and I need you Jesse." --> ego surfing!

[Cronos]

so, wait a minute -- you dispute this, yet don't you believe that Jesse Duplantis "preaches the scripture"?

Jesse Duplantis who says

"With fierce prayers and determination to see my mother healed, I started talking to God. "What is going on here?! I'm praying! Dad's praying! Why isn't she healed? You cannot allow death to defeat me, God. You made a covenant with me through Jesus' blood! And that covenant says by His stripes we were healed! Where is that healing? If you break this covenant with me, you'll have to cease to be God! You must keep covenant with me. You must obey your Word!"

[Cronos]

how can anyone say Jesse Duplantis’ Heaven visit revealed a visual experience at The Throne vis a vis Christ being in The Father and The Father being in Christ that portrayed it about as well as I’d ever heard of.

when Jesse, the demonic con-man Duplantis gives a new revelation that God is a mile-high and surrounded by a huge wall and actually in the shape of a man, is that what you would consider "revealed to us"? Is it a new revelation?

[Cronos]

do note -- the question was does Jesse Duplantis' revelation that God is a mile-high and surrounded by a huge wall and actually in the shape of a man, is that what you would consider "revealed to us"? Is it a new revelation?

for instance, Jesse says

I saw Him! I saw Elohim, Jehovah God, Yahweh sitting on the Throne! But I saw His feet - only His feet. . . He is so big - you can’t describe Him in a dimension. His hand is huge! His body, the form of it, is sort of like energy, spirit. There’s a wall around the Throne, but the Throne is higher than the wall - that’s why you can see the Throne from every direction, from a distance. And that power, that energy-like smoke of God, covers all around the chair of the Throne itself."

besides the fact that this contradicts I Tim. 6:16 16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. -- is this what "He has revealed to us"? Should Jesse's revelations be taken as true?

Why do you believe him?

[Cronos]

Don't you see the sheer blasphemy in the following statements?

By Jesse Duplantis

God has the power to take life, but He can’t.
He’s got the power to do it, but He won’t. He’s bound; He can’t.
He says, “Death and life is in the power of” who’s tongue? Yours. You ready for this? You want something that’ll knock your lights off?
You choose when you live; you choose when you die. Death and life is in the power of your tongue, not God’s.

"Adam (not God) breathed life into animals"

“The very first thing on Jesus’ agenda was to get rid of poverty!

"With fierce prayers and determination to see my mother healed, I started talking to God. "What is going on here?! I'm praying! Dad's praying! Why isn't she healed? You cannot allow death to defeat me, God. You made a covenant with me through Jesus' blood! And that covenant says by His stripes we were healed! Where is that healing? If you break this covenant with me, you'll have to cease to be God! You must keep covenant with me. You must obey your Word!"

God tells Jesse: "You have Me in a hard place, Jesse. Someone has got to give in. Get yourselves together and tell Me what I am to do!" --> So God needs Jesse to tell Him what to do?

By benny hinn

God has 9 parts (tri-theistic).
A. God has a body, soul and spirit.
B. Jesus has a body, soul and spirit.
C. Holy Spirit has a body, soul and spirit. (Benny Hinn, Benny Hinn broadcast, recorded 10/13/90)

"He [Jesus] who is righteous by choice said, 'The only way I can stop sin is by Me becoming it. I can't just stop it by letting it touch Me; I and it must become one.' Hear this! He who is the nature of God became the nature of Satan where He became sin!" (Benny Hinn, TBN, 12/1/90).

[Cronos]

What's weird, jla is that some take their childhood pscyhological problems to use as hatred for Mary.

Deep rooted problems

yet these same folks can say Benny Hinn teaches Christian thought? Now some may defend Benny saying He affirms all the cardinal doctrines of the faith AND that Christ came in the flesh. I'm not at all convinced he's a false prophet. Excessive in a list of ways, probably.

but Benny's own preaching shows that as a false statement

• Christians are little messiahs. Christians are little gods. (Benny Hinn, Praise-a-thon (TBN), recorded November 1990)
• God has 9 parts (tri-theistic).
  A. God has a body, soul and spirit.
  B. Jesus has a body, soul and spirit.
  C. Holy Spirit has a body, soul and spirit. (Benny Hinn, Benny Hinn broadcast, recorded 10/13/90)
• "What was the appearance of God the Father? Like that of a man...God has the likeness of fingers and hands and a face." (Good Morning Holy Spirit, (Benny Hinn, Word, 1991) p. 82)
• "What does God the Father look like? Although I've never seen Him, I believe - as with the Holy Spirit - He looks like Jesus looked on earth." (Benny Hinn, Good Morning Holy Spirit, (Word, 1991) p.87)
• "Had He (Jesus) not offered Himself through the Holy Ghost, He would not be accepted in the eyes of God the Father. Nor would He have endured the sufferings of the cross. Had He not presented Himself through the Holy Ghost, His blood would not have remained pure and spotless. And let me add this: Had the Holy Spirit not been with Jesus, He would have sinned." (Benny Hinn, Good Morning Holy Spirit, (Word, 1991) p.135)
• "I am a 'little messiah' walking the earth" (Benny Hinn, Praise-a-Thon" on TBN, November 6, 1990).
• "Are you ready for some real revelation knowledge....you are god" (Benny Hinn, "Our Position In Christ", tape # AO31190-1)
• "You are a little god on earth running around". (Benny Hinn, "Praise-a-thon" broadcast on TBN, November, 1990)
• " . . . the anointing is dependent upon my words. God will not move unless I say it. Why? because He has made us coworkers with Him. He set things up that way." (Benny Hinn, The Anointing. Nashville: Thomas Nelson. 1992. 82.)

I have no idea how folks can read the above and say about Benny that he " affirms all the cardinal doctrines of the faith AND that Christ came in the flesh. I'm not at all convinced he's a false prophet" -- to me it's obvious he IS a false prophet.

But the sheer inconsistencies in attacking Mary and yet believing in such conmen as shown above doesn't strike them

any idea what could be the reason, aruanan? May some deep-rooted problem with the pscyhe? abandonment or worse?

[jacknhoo]

When reading the ridiculous writings, like the one posted, I get a great sense of gratefulness to the Catholic Church for being the rock that it is. Our house has not fallen and it will never fall.

I see all the questions and uncertainty that flows through all other Christian denominations and it is truly sad that there is no real authority. A kind of by-the-seat-of-your pants doctrine and dogma. Everyone outside of the Catholic church is left to their own limited and insufficient devices for their understandings and enlightenment. To compound the error is the democratic appeals to the acceptance of perversities and abominations - that ain't love that is enabling.

When we look to the foundings of other Christian denominations, it is evident why they are so lacking in authority. They have no “real” authority. They are allowed to fit their teachings to their feelings and their conscience. When, in truth, the conscience is to be formed to the teachings of the authoritative church established by God.

Articles written, like the one posted here, with the intent of throwing all of Christianity under the bus in an effort to discredit other Christian denominations and to reject the authority of the Catholic church, is a deceitful and antagonistic attack. It does nobody any good at all. It, if believed, discredits all of Christianity. It raises the question, what exactly is the intent of these writers? Suspicions arise that quite possibly they prefer a discredited Christianity. One that is preferred by man, rather than God. An underhanded effort, again, to form the authority of the church to the beliefs and feelings of man in this fallen worldly condition.

Those outside of the Catholic church would do well, to research and understand the foundation of their own authority. If they would successfully accomplish this research and not listen in denial, then they would go a great distance toward understanding the truth...the hard truth that the Word of God is transferred orally and that we must obey oral tradition that was handed down to us from the apostles and Jesus, because Jesus and the Apostles relied on oral tradition as the Word of God. Without oral tradition, the Word of God is not complete. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX “And indeed it was a virgin, about to marry once for all after her delivery, who gave birth to Christ, in order that each title of sanctity might be fulfilled in Christ's parentage, by means of a mother who was both virgin, and wife of one husband. Again, when He is presented as an infant in the temple, who is it who receives Him into his hands? Who is the first to recognize Him in spirit? A man just and circumspect,' and of course no digamist, (which is plain) even (from this consideration), lest (otherwise) Christ should presently be more worthily preached by a woman, an aged widow, and the wife of one man;' who, living devoted to the temple, was (already) giving in her own person a sufficient token what sort of persons ought to be the adherents to the spiritual temple,--that is, the Church. Such eye-witnesses the Lord in infancy found; no different ones had He in adult age." Tertullian, On Monogamy, 8 (A.D. 213).

[MarkBsnr]

Another posting of the UNBIBLICAL fantasized fables of the Vatican Cult...

I could see how that young lady was in such tremendous pain, full of anguish and crying. She said, “No! No! Do not worship me! Why do you bow before me? I don’t do anything!” You see dear brothers, it was a tremendous thing to look at this young lady, how she was crying with such pain and sadness.

Then stop posting your cult's fables.

[HossB86]

seeing your failure to point out at least two problems with the analogy....

Thanks for picking up the slack. Yet, I think the failure of Salvation's analogy is obvious, regardless of whether a simple query for scripture is asked for, or a more in-depth analysis is performed.

:D

Hoss

[HossB86]

seeing your failure to point out at least two problems with the analogy....

Thanks for picking up the slack. Yet, I think the failure of Salvation's analogy is obvious, regardless of whether a simple query for scripture is asked for, or a more in-depth analysis is performed.

:D

Hoss