[presently no screen name]

In any case non of the traditional Christian bodies ever decided that what the Father’s wrote was to be sneeringly set aside and regarded as inferior to one’s own private on retainer Holy Ghost.

Everything is secular with you - what this one or that one says. Your comment on the HS is noted and God sees all. You'll bear that one. Your concerns on who was martyred and lifting them up as some authority when Christianity is about CHRIST, not man. His Word is THE FINAL AUTHORITY. If one doesn't agree to that - they have nothing.

Jesus Christ was persecuted and died - that is the only focus for a Christian but for a catholic - it's about man man man and then digging them up to honor them and blaspheming Mary with godlike titles and crowning her. PAGAN worship! Idolatry! Disobedience!

[Cronos]

pnsm: Jesus Christ was persecuted and died - that is the only focus for a Christian

Actually for us Christians we believe that Jesus Christ was persecuted, died, rose from the dead and is not sitting at the right hand of God the Father -- because Jesus Christ IS God

Now, I realise that it is difficult for many to acknowledge that, it is the central mystery of our Christian faith which is not only that Christ DIED, but more importantly that HE TRIUMPHED OVER DEATH, He rose again from the dead, He IS/WAS/will always be GOD

Non-Christians cannot acknowledge this fact of Jesus's resurrection and that Jesus Christ is God.

laschance -- let's leave the non-Christians here to debate with the non-Trinitarian non-Catholics and the Trinitarian non-Catholics. Judith anne is correct, there is a point beyond which the other posters do not show any propensity to sensibly discuss and here we have the normal suspects that spout bile and will not acknowledge Jesus Christ as God -- let's not waste time on this any more

[lastchance]

A little comprehension would be a good thing for you. I was not sneering at the Holy Ghost I was sneering at the presumption you have regarding the Holy Ghost giving you superior knowledge in matters of Scripture over the faithful Fathers of the Church.

You are not the Church. I am not the Church. Jesus promised the Church would be protected from all error by the Holy Spirit. Individuals can and do make mistakes regarding Biblical meanings. You are not safe from such error. I am not safe from such error.

The Bible is meant to be read and studied and understood and taught within the community of faith. I am not just speaking of Catholicism now but include Protestantism as well. It is not an “every man for himself” task but is a way of building up the Body of Christ.

I do believe that the separated sects are in some part protected from error as God’s grace and the Holy Spirit are certainly not absent from them.

The Holy Spirit certainly gives you an understanding of the Bible in its plain meaning. But yours is not the charism of infallibility. Nor was it the charism of the Fathers. They however had a great advantage over you. They either knew the Apostles or learned from those who got their teachings from the students of the Apostles. So you’ll forgive me if I take their opinion over yours.

The cry of the heretic is Eureka!!! They all believe they have discovered a previously unknown revelation from God to be made binding upon the faithful for the sake of their salvation.

You are in good company as ever heretic comes to this Eureka from his own private understanding of Scripture. The Church Eastern and Western stands against this. I will stand with her.

[Cronos]

Presently no screed name (post 431): Jesus Christ was persecuted and died - that is the only focus for a Christian

Actually for us Christians we believe that Jesus Christ was persecuted, died, rose from the dead and is not sitting at the right hand of God the Father -- because Jesus Christ IS God

Now, I realise that it is difficult for many to acknowledge that, it is the central mystery of our Christian faith which is not only that Christ DIED, but more importantly that HE TRIUMPHED OVER DEATH, He rose again from the dead, He IS/WAS/will always be GOD

Non-Christians cannot acknowledge this fact of Jesus's resurrection and that Jesus Christ is God

[Cronos]

Christians acknowledge the fact that Jesus ROSE from the dead, ASCENDED into heaven and is GOD.

If non-Christian deniers of Christ would only have the honesty tell the world what they are -- we Christians (Lutherans, Orthodox, Presbyterians, Catholics, Pentecostals etc. etc) freely acknowledge that we consider Jesus Christ to be God.

[Cronos]

Some can't bring themselves to say Christ is their one Lord and God.

I shout it out.

All Christians believe it.

: Jesus Christ is my Lord, God and Savior.