Posted on 05/31/2011 11:53:33 AM PDT by marshmallow
The Protoevangelium of James
“And behold, an angel of the Lord stood by [St. Anne], saying, ‘Anne! Anne! The Lord has heard your prayer, and you shall conceive and shall bring forth, and your seed shall be spoken of in all the world.’ And Anne said, ‘As the Lord my God lives, if I beget either male or female, I will bring it as a gift to the Lord my God, and it shall minister to him in the holy things all the days of its life.’ . . . And [from the time she was three] Mary was in the temple of the Lord as if she were a dove that dwelt there” (Protoevangelium of James 4, 7 [A.D. 120]).
“And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of priests, saying, ‘Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. What then shall we do with her, lest perchance she defile the sanctuary of the Lord?’ And they said to the high priest, ‘You stand by the altar of the Lord; go in and pray concerning her, and whatever the Lord shall manifest to you, that also will we do.’ . . . [A]nd he prayed concerning her, and behold, an angel of the Lord stood by him saying, ‘Zechariah! Zechariah! Go out and assemble the widowers of the people and let them bring each his rod, and to whomsoever the Lord shall show a sign, his wife shall she be. . . . And Joseph [was chosen]. . . . And the priest said to Joseph, ‘You have been chosen by lot to take into your keeping the Virgin of the Lord.’ But Joseph refused, saying, ‘I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl’” (ibid., 8–9).
“And Annas the scribe came to him [Joseph] . . . and saw that Mary was with child. And he ran away to the priest and said to him, ‘Joseph, whom you did vouch for, has committed a grievous crime.’ And the priest said, ‘How so?’ And he said, ‘He has defiled the virgin whom he received out of the temple of the Lord and has married her by stealth’” (ibid., 15).
“And the priest said, ‘Mary, why have you done this? And why have you brought your soul low and forgotten the Lord your God?’ . . . And she wept bitterly saying, ‘As the Lord my God lives, I am pure before him, and know not man’” (ibid.).
Origen
“The Book [the Protoevangelium] of James [records] that the brethren of Jesus were sons of Joseph by a former wife, whom he married before Mary. Now those who say so wish to preserve the honor of Mary in virginity to the end, so that body of hers which was appointed to minister to the Word . . . might not know intercourse with a man after the Holy Spirit came into her and the power from on high overshadowed her. And I think it in harmony with reason that Jesus was the firstfruit among men of the purity which consists in [perpetual] chastity, and Mary was among women. For it were not pious to ascribe to any other than to her the firstfruit of virginity” (Commentary on Matthew 2:17 [A.D. 248]).
Hilary of Poitiers
“If they [the brethren of the Lord] had been Mary’s sons and not those taken from Joseph’s former marriage, she would never have been given over in the moment of the passion [crucifixion] to the apostle John as his mother, the Lord saying to each, ‘Woman, behold your son,’ and to John, ‘Behold your mother’ [John 19:26–27), as he bequeathed filial love to a disciple as a consolation to the one desolate" (Commentary on Matthew 1:4 [A.D. 354]).
Athanasius
“Let those, therefore, who deny that the Son is by nature from the Father and proper to his essence deny also that he took true human flesh from the ever-virgin Mary” (Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 [A.D. 360]).
Epiphanius of Salamis
“We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of all things, both visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God . . . who for us men and for our salvation came down and took flesh, that is, was born perfectly of the holy ever-virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit” (The Man Well-Anchored 120 [A.D. 374]).
“And to holy Mary, [the title] ‘Virgin’ is invariably added, for that holy woman remains undefiled” (Medicine Chest Against All Heresies 78:6 [A.D. 375]).
Jerome
“[Helvidius] produces Tertullian as a witness [to his view] and quotes Victorinus, bishop of Petavium. Of Tertullian, I say no more than that he did not belong to the Church. But as regards Victorinus, I assert what has already been proven from the gospel—that he [Victorinus] spoke of the brethren of the Lord not as being sons of Mary but brethren in the sense I have explained, that is to say, brethren in point of kinship, not by nature. [By discussing such things we] are . . . following the tiny streams of opinion. Might I not array against you the whole series of ancient writers? Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men, who against [the heretics] Ebion, Theodotus of Byzantium, and Valentinus, held these same views and wrote volumes replete with wisdom. If you had ever read what they wrote, you would be a wiser man” (Against Helvidius: The Perpetual Virginity of Mary 19 [A.D. 383]).
“We believe that God was born of a virgin, because we read it. We do not believe that Mary was married after she brought forth her Son, because we do not read it. . . . You [Helvidius] say that Mary did not remain a virgin. As for myself, I claim that Joseph himself was a virgin, through Mary, so that a virgin Son might be born of a virginal wedlock” (ibid., 21).
Didymus the Blind
“It helps us to understand the terms ‘first-born’ and ‘only-begotten’ when the Evangelist tells that Mary remained a virgin ‘until she brought forth her first-born son’ [Matt. 1:25]; for neither did Mary, who is to be honored and praised above all others, marry anyone else, nor did she ever become the Mother of anyone else, but even after childbirth she remained always and forever an immaculate virgin” (The Trinity 3:4 [A.D. 386]).
Ambrose of Milan
“Imitate her [Mary], holy mothers, who in her only dearly beloved Son set forth so great an example of material virtue; for neither have you sweeter children [than Jesus], nor did the Virgin seek the consolation of being able to bear another son” (Letters 63:111 [A.D. 388]).
Pope Siricius I
“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (Letter to Bishop Anysius [A.D. 392]).
Augustine
“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).
“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).
“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).
Leporius
“We confess, therefore, that our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, born of the Father before the ages, and in times most recent, made man of the Holy Spirit and the ever-virgin Mary” (Document of Amendment 3 [A.D. 426]).
Cyril of Alexandria
“[T]he Word himself, coming into the Blessed Virgin herself, assumed for himself his own temple from the substance of the Virgin and came forth from her a man in all that could be externally discerned, while interiorly he was true God. Therefore he kept his Mother a virgin even after her childbearing” (Against Those Who Do Not Wish to Confess That the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God 4 [A.D. 430]).
Pope Leo I
“His [Christ’s] origin is different, but his [human] nature is the same. Human usage and custom were lacking, but by divine power a Virgin conceived, a Virgin bore, and Virgin she remained” (Sermons 22:2 [A.D. 450]).
Evidently only
in YOUR construction on reality.
Not in mine.
Understood.
Thank You.
De nada.
Bu Xie.
You’re Welcome.
. . . Except of course . . .
when
you write a brilliant 1-3 starkly brief summary and I was wanting a 3 paragraph or 3 page treatise. Harumph! LOL.
LOLOL! I’m a math geek at heart - simplify, simplify, simplify.
Am deeply humbled by your kind words.
BLESSED BE THE LORD GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB.
BLESSED BE THE WORD OF THE LORD.
BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
BLESSED BE THE RETURN OF THE KING.
ALL TRUE HOBBITS OF AUTHENTICALLY FURRY FEET AND FURRY HEARTS EAGERLY AWAIT AND CHEER HIS RETURN.
If one says “proddy’s don’t do that” when that is exactly what a “proddy” did, what alternative is there...?
If one says “proddy’s don’t do that” when that is exactly what a “proddy” did, what alternative is there...?
And because the
Magicsterical Committee of self-serving political power-mongers 300-400 years later said so.
barf.
There have been countless pages posted where it is shown that many Catholics, clergy included pray to Mary and ask her to provide Grace, Salvation, health, wealth and healing and many numbers of things which can only come from God...
So how could you make such a statement that all you ask of Mary is to convey a prayer to Jesus???
Unbiblical my patoot. “Pray thee” is straight out of the Bible.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=pray&t=KJV
Is Abram an idolater “praying to” Lot? Sarah an idolatress “praying to” Abram?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You’re insisting I’m at fault because, for lack of extraordinary proof, I dare deny the extraordinary claim.
Fair disclosure: I contend that proper doctrine is explainable and sensible thru mundane interpretations.
For example: Occam’s Razor indicates that Mary was just what we would consider a “good girl”, seeking a normal and proper relationship with Joseph, and by Biblical miracle conceived before *ahem* knowing Joseph, then indeed did so after birth (as there are references to their other children); in order to achieve this thread’s claim, every single factor would have to be extraordinarily different - hence my previous comment, which Quix nicely rendered. The extraordinary claim is not essential, therefore the claim of extraordinary supporting factors is in severe doubt as the mundane explanation provides a sensible conclusion, to wit: the extraordinary claim is incorrect.
What makes you think Y is true? There is no evidence. X is an assertion without basis.
Hello vladimir998
I love your passion. This is a Catholic post and you are convinced the Catholics are the true church and others have strayed. I have no quarrel with your heart felt convictions on that.
The root meaning for “church” is a called out assembly. As for the Christ-made church, she is composed of those Christ has called out to Himself - His body. And believers have affliliated themselves as Catholics (Greek, Roman), Lutherans, Baptists, Methodist, ... and even Presbyterians.
In the Old Testament, God’s people were saved by faith - looking forward to Christ. (Jesus said Abraham saw His day and was glad.) In the first century to the twenty-first, we look back to Christ and are saved by faith in him.
Our doctrine is indeed based on Christ and the Apostles. And as one who takes authority from Holy Scriptures, we all can thank the Catholics for putting it all together for us.
If we all were perfect, we wouldn’t be so divided and quarrel like we do. But in Heaven ... we all with agree and be with Jesus forever.
Dude, read a bible once in a while.
I'm constantly amazed by the idiotic prattle that is directly contrary to scripture one can get away with by claiming ones own interpretation of scripture to be authoritative.
And I’m a Mars Hill Pauline addict at heart . . . sort of . . . not really . . . in spiritual terms . . . just in rambling complex sentences ad nauseum and all over the country-side sense.
I love to tease things out to the nth degree to be sure it’s all covered slightly to much more adequately LOL
. . . such that . . . the reader is left with few lingering questions . . . LOL or with niggling questions which will provoke fruitful thinking.
I do appreciate you saying that. I should keep that in mind.
Sometimes my insecurities convince me you were being terse for some stern warranted reason on my part. Sigh.
It is brash and all inclusive of me to say Proddys don’t do XYZ ever at all.
However, on that score, in general, Proddys don’t do that.
I realize that Vatican Cult members construe reality very differently routinely.
They construe Scripture in absurd ways. Why wouldn’t they twist and distort Proddy and other realities!
They are so well practiced at the dark art—it’s automatic—probably barely conscious at times.
There have been countless pages posted where it is shown that many Catholics, clergy included pray to Mary and ask her to provide Grace, Salvation, health, wealth and healing and many numbers of things which can only come from God...
So how could you make such a statement that all you ask of Mary is to convey a prayer to Jesus???
ABSOLUTELY INDEED.
LOL.
Welllllllll, even Proddy KJV addicts don’t go running around saying that to their children. At least not in public! LOL.
Sheesh . . . grope grope.
Moved??? From where??? Syria, of course...And Antioch in particualar...Which means I am utterly right...And you are definately wrong...
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