The Church Fathers- Mary: Ever Virgin

The Church Fathers ^ | 120AD-450AD

[dartuser]

but the weight that Catholicism puts on Mary’s perpetual virginity points to the fact that they see sex between husbands and wives as dirty

BINGO !! (pun intended) lol.

[marbren]

And now from the same people who gave us replacement theology we have this teaching. Maybe one lie fed the other? How many other lies are floating out there being called doctrine?

[Salvation]

Virgin Birth—or Prophetic Slip?
The Perpetual Virginity of Blessed Mary
Aeiparthenos (An Anglo-Catholic Priest on Mary's Perpetual Virginity)
[Why I Am Catholic]: Because of the Protestant Reformers Beliefs On Mary
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Mary: Virgin and Ever Virgin
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
The Protestant Reformers on the Virgin Mary
Zwingli’s’ Mariology: On Mary “Full of Grace”

[marbren]

You both are so quick to believe the teaching of the church fathers about replacement theology. Why do you discount this teaching by the same church fathers if in fact you do?

On second thought Maybe you should not discount it. I think Martin Luther believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary IIRC. The LCMS does not however. How did that happen?

[RnMomof7]

Judging by the energy which many non-Catholics invest in trying to undermine the doctrine of Mary's perpetual virginity, quite a lot apparently. It's not simply an attitude of....."I don't care if she was a perpetual virgin"...........rather, it's ........no, she was not a perpetual virgin". IOW, they appear to be as heavily invested in the idea that Mary's virginity was not perpetual, as the Church is invested in the teaching that it is perpetual.

Why did her virginity need to be eternal ?

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“Then your aggressive behavior is simply inexplicable. So be it.”

Nothing I said was aggressive.

[RnMomof7]

“So would you say the Holy Spirit had sex with Mary.. that is how a marriage is consummated”
Not all marriages need be consummated - hence the term josephite marriage.

Is it not true that the Catholic church will grant an annulment based on a marriage not being consummated?

[vladimir998]

I’ll simply post what is better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y3WC6LCZT0&feature=related

[RnMomof7]

I asked first ...how do you know if a non scriptural doctrine is true?

I will say all spiritual truths can be tested for truth by the scriptures.. they revel all that God has desired to reveal of Himself to men

[vladimir998]

Again.

[RnMomof7]

Because it highlights the uniqueness of the Incarnation of Jesus. The womb which bore Jesus, bore no other. It emphasizes the fullness of God's plan of salvation and Mary's place in it. This womb which bore God made man, remained forever a shrine to He who dwelt there for nine months. Inviolate and pure.

If it pointed to Christ why was i never taught in the scriptures?

Does giving birth "soil" the womb" Is it a sin to give birth?

Poor Joseph, he has an adulteress wife that refuses to fulfill his marital rights

[vladimir998]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgoCa9Hhkzo&feature=related

[vladimir998]

And again.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“Is it not true that the Catholic church will grant an annulment based on a marriage not being consummated?”

Depends on the type of marriage, but that has happened. That does not happen with Josephite Marriages and that’s what Mary and Joseph had - hence the name.

[vladimir998]

you wrote:

“I asked first”

9 comes before 40. Thus, I asked first. Look back at the posts.

[RnMomof7]

Catholicism has so much in common with mormonism..they think their president is a prophet like the pope....all cults have prophets..

Not one of your scriptures point to extra biblical teachings .... nice try though

Remember that the disciples and apostles always pointed back to the scriptures to verify their words and teaching ,not one extra biblical teaching in the record of the the epistles to the church ...

A scripture that supports my words to you is this.. Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Catholics are as deceived as the JWs, the Mormons, the adventists etc

[vladimir998]

How does anyone fullfill someone else’s marital rights?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

what does her sex life have to do with my salvation?

Bingo.

For that matter, what does Mary have to do with anyone's salvation other than her own?

Nada.

[NEWwoman]

Sorry to leave and jump back in again - saw this great article, that is so timely for Christian debates - especially on threads like this.

Five Words That Could Save the Church

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/05/31/words-save-church/

[RnMomof7]

“but the weight that Catholicism puts on Mary’s perpetual virginity points to the fact that they see sex between husbands and wives as dirty .. It seems the only woman that has value is the one that is a virgin”

That’s an incredibly bizarre statement. First of all, Jesus Himself valued virginity (Matthew 19:11-12) so there’s nothing wrong with His followers doing it as well.

Marys womb was just a womb after the birth of Jesus ... she , like all Jewish women observed the rites of purification following the birth ...so she was able to have sex with her husband ..The Son of Man was to be fully human, have a complete human experience which would have included parents that loved one and other.. had marital relations and had brothers and sisters.. Mary is not a goddess ...to make her one blasphemes God. If her sexual life was ordered by God to be different that the other women of her day.. that would have been made clear in the scriptures.. instead we read this..

Mat 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Would Mary having a sexual relationship with her husband made her a sinner?Would it have soiled her? Would Jesus not have loved her?

The only reason for this doctrine is the Misogyny of the men in those days, and apparently Catholic men today