The Church Fathers- Mary: Ever Virgin

“And behold, an angel of the Lord stood by [St. Anne], saying, ‘Anne! Anne! The Lord has heard your prayer, and you shall conceive and shall bring forth, and your seed shall be spoken of in all the world.’ And Anne said, ‘As the Lord my God lives, if I beget either male or female, I will bring it as a gift to the Lord my God, and it shall minister to him in the holy things all the days of its life.’ . . . And [from the time she was three] Mary was in the temple of the Lord as if she were a dove that dwelt there” (Protoevangelium of James 4, 7 [A.D. 120]).

“And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of priests, saying, ‘Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. What then shall we do with her, lest perchance she defile the sanctuary of the Lord?’ And they said to the high priest, ‘You stand by the altar of the Lord; go in and pray concerning her, and whatever the Lord shall manifest to you, that also will we do.’ . . . [A]nd he prayed concerning her, and behold, an angel of the Lord stood by him saying, ‘Zechariah! Zechariah! Go out and assemble the widowers of the people and let them bring each his rod, and to whomsoever the Lord shall show a sign, his wife shall she be. . . . And Joseph [was chosen]. . . . And the priest said to Joseph, ‘You have been chosen by lot to take into your keeping the Virgin of the Lord.’ But Joseph refused, saying, ‘I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl’” (ibid., 8–9).

“And Annas the scribe came to him [Joseph] . . . and saw that Mary was with child. And he ran away to the priest and said to him, ‘Joseph, whom you did vouch for, has committed a grievous crime.’ And the priest said, ‘How so?’ And he said, ‘He has defiled the virgin whom he received out of the temple of the Lord and has married her by stealth’” (ibid., 15).

“And the priest said, ‘Mary, why have you done this? And why have you brought your soul low and forgotten the Lord your God?’ . . . And she wept bitterly saying, ‘As the Lord my God lives, I am pure before him, and know not man’” (ibid.).

“The Book [the Protoevangelium] of James [records] that the brethren of Jesus were sons of Joseph by a former wife, whom he married before Mary. Now those who say so wish to preserve the honor of Mary in virginity to the end, so that body of hers which was appointed to minister to the Word . . . might not know intercourse with a man after the Holy Spirit came into her and the power from on high overshadowed her. And I think it in harmony with reason that Jesus was the firstfruit among men of the purity which consists in [perpetual] chastity, and Mary was among women. For it were not pious to ascribe to any other than to her the firstfruit of virginity” (Commentary on Matthew 2:17 [A.D. 248]).

“If they [the brethren of the Lord] had been Mary’s sons and not those taken from Joseph’s former marriage, she would never have been given over in the moment of the passion [crucifixion] to the apostle John as his mother, the Lord saying to each, ‘Woman, behold your son,’ and to John, ‘Behold your mother’ [John 19:26–27), as he bequeathed filial love to a disciple as a consolation to the one desolate" (Commentary on Matthew 1:4 [A.D. 354]).

“Let those, therefore, who deny that the Son is by nature from the Father and proper to his essence deny also that he took true human flesh from the ever-virgin Mary” (Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 [A.D. 360]).

“We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of all things, both visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God . . . who for us men and for our salvation came down and took flesh, that is, was born perfectly of the holy ever-virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit” (The Man Well-Anchored 120 [A.D. 374]).

“And to holy Mary, [the title] ‘Virgin’ is invariably added, for that holy woman remains undefiled” (Medicine Chest Against All Heresies 78:6 [A.D. 375]).

“[Helvidius] produces Tertullian as a witness [to his view] and quotes Victorinus, bishop of Petavium. Of Tertullian, I say no more than that he did not belong to the Church. But as regards Victorinus, I assert what has already been proven from the gospel—that he [Victorinus] spoke of the brethren of the Lord not as being sons of Mary but brethren in the sense I have explained, that is to say, brethren in point of kinship, not by nature. [By discussing such things we] are . . . following the tiny streams of opinion. Might I not array against you the whole series of ancient writers? Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men, who against [the heretics] Ebion, Theodotus of Byzantium, and Valentinus, held these same views and wrote volumes replete with wisdom. If you had ever read what they wrote, you would be a wiser man” (Against Helvidius: The Perpetual Virginity of Mary 19 [A.D. 383]).

“We believe that God was born of a virgin, because we read it. We do not believe that Mary was married after she brought forth her Son, because we do not read it. . . . You [Helvidius] say that Mary did not remain a virgin. As for myself, I claim that Joseph himself was a virgin, through Mary, so that a virgin Son might be born of a virginal wedlock” (ibid., 21).

“It helps us to understand the terms ‘first-born’ and ‘only-begotten’ when the Evangelist tells that Mary remained a virgin ‘until she brought forth her first-born son’ [Matt. 1:25]; for neither did Mary, who is to be honored and praised above all others, marry anyone else, nor did she ever become the Mother of anyone else, but even after childbirth she remained always and forever an immaculate virgin” (The Trinity 3:4 [A.D. 386]).

“Imitate her [Mary], holy mothers, who in her only dearly beloved Son set forth so great an example of material virtue; for neither have you sweeter children [than Jesus], nor did the Virgin seek the consolation of being able to bear another son” (Letters 63:111 [A.D. 388]).

“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (Letter to Bishop Anysius [A.D. 392]).

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

“We confess, therefore, that our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, born of the Father before the ages, and in times most recent, made man of the Holy Spirit and the ever-virgin Mary” (Document of Amendment 3 [A.D. 426]).

“[T]he Word himself, coming into the Blessed Virgin herself, assumed for himself his own temple from the substance of the Virgin and came forth from her a man in all that could be externally discerned, while interiorly he was true God. Therefore he kept his Mother a virgin even after her childbearing” (Against Those Who Do Not Wish to Confess That the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God 4 [A.D. 430]).

“His [Christ’s] origin is different, but his [human] nature is the same. Human usage and custom were lacking, but by divine power a Virgin conceived, a Virgin bore, and Virgin she remained” (Sermons 22:2 [A.D. 450]).

The internet is real to you? LOL!!

In my real life I interact with people face to face - and I know them and them, me. Perhaps, you hide and so posting on a screen is real life to you.

So, there is no person at all behind "presently no screen name"? Are you saying you are not real?

Ok gee, JA are you sure you want to go there - you might want to simmer down lest someone uses that as an IQ barometer for JA. Being hasty just to post anything in opposition is not wise but then, again...

Moreso, after an examination of conscience.

Yes, “the internet is real to me.”

For one thing, when FReepers post prayer requests on the RF, I take them at face value, and offer prayers for their intentions, and for them to be blessed by God according to His Holy Will. I do this on my knees. My real knees.

Do you think this is all a joke?

If you think this is all some game, well then, I think you are not real.

Since I am still working in the real world, I can’t spend much time here. This is not a fantasy game I am playing, and if you are, I feel pity for you.

For another thing, I don’t think it’s funny when someone engages in a conversation about deeply held convictions, I do not joke about abortion, I think Sarah Palin is a genuine, flesh and blood heroine for today, I really have a mastiff, I am a genuine widow,

What is that rant all about? One minute you are telling me I'm not real then next you it's all about YOU and what YOU think and speak of a genuine widow. Are their fake ones? You are all over the place - abortion, Sarah, real knees, doggies!! And are exceedingly caught up in proving you are real. Do you honestly think I care what you think or who you are? LOL!!

I don't get to see these mental gymnastics in my real life with someone trying to prove they are real!! This is all too funny.

If you think this is all some game, well then, I think you are not real.

You already said that - when I said this is not my real life. You turned it into a game to prove you are real and I'm not!

This is not a fantasy game I am playing, and if you are, I feel pity for you.

Its not a fantasy for a real person typing to a person they claim is not real? LOL!!!!!!!

BTW, save your pity and the on the knees pious attitude - and the need to speak of it. That works in the RCC. It's not needed for one that is blessed blessed blessed and has a real and eternal life.

But thanks for the laughs! You are hilarious! No one is typing this - it just appeared here. LOL!

you're welcome, as I said Jesse Duplantis is a hoax, a con-man, a fraud

his "preachings" are a joke. I watched the entire "I went to heaven and comforted Jesus" video with amazement -- that so many people believed this utterly unbelievable and unbiblical storyline (especially the bit that the Holy Spirit is not in Heaven).

How can anyone believe a guy that preaches this

“I’m going to say something that will knock your lights off. Go has the power to take life, but He can’t. He’s got the power to do it, but He won’t. He’s bound; He can’t. He says, “Death and life is in the power of” who’s tongue? Yours. You ready for this? You want something that’ll knock your lights off? You choose when you live; you choose when you die. Death and life is in the power of your tongue, not God’s.?

What's more alarming is that Jesse's been preaching the same thing about him going to heaven for 20 years now and lots of folks still send him the moolah! Really, seriously quix -- do you honestly believe this guy is not a hoax? I don't see him preaching anything but coming up with tall storylines and bad acting.

Tell me quix, do you honestly believe the non-biblical stuff from the devil that Jesse Duplantis spouts?

Here are some zingers from Jesse's time in heaven

"As I stepped out of the chariot, everything I saw was so beautiful. I had always thought that when I went to heaven I would see only a city. But the first place I saw was Paradise; it hadn't been destroyed. Paradise is a big place, completely surrounding the Holy City. It is like being on another planet."

I saw Elohim, Jehovah God, Yahweh sitting on the Throne! But I saw His feet - only His feet. . . He is so big - you can’t describe Him in a dimension. His hand is huge! His body, the form of it, is sort of like energy, spirit. There’s a wall around the Throne, but the Throne is higher than the wall - that’s why you can see the Throne from every direction, from a distance. And that power, that energy-like smoke of God, covers all around the chair of the Throne itself."

"There was a cloud that looked like smoke going up from the Throne and I heard that massive sound, "whoosh! It was power like I’ve never experienced in my life. Then I saw God’s finger barely move and when it moved, an angel that was flying near Him was thrown up against a wall. Bam! It didn’t hurt the angel."

then Jesus starts to say how He is dreading the day when He has to send some of His creation to hell, so Jesse comes to Jesus's rescue! "I wanted to reach out and comfort Him, so I put my hand on the Lord. . .I could tell that Jesus was hurting."

"I didn’t know before how much He needed me to reach out to other people. I have always thought of how much I needed Him, not how much He needs me. . .He smiled at me and said, "I chose you. No one else wanted you, and I need you Jesse."

Fantastico!

Do you actually believe that Jesse went to heaven and comforted Jesus?

What about this one -- "He [Jesus] who is righteous by choice said, 'The only way I can stop sin is by Me becoming it. I can't just stop it by letting it touch Me; I and it must become one.' Hear this! He who is the nature of God became the nature of Satan where He became sin!" (Benny Hinn, TBN, 12/1/90).

quix: Yourcheap shots about Benny are pathetic.

I’ve long made it known that Benny is not a favorite of mine.

I deplore a lot of his stuff.

If God chooses to use Benny, that’s God’s business. God used a donkey to speak to a prophet once.

So, when Benny Hinn says the following unbiblical stuff from hell you just "deplore" his "stuff"?

God has 9 parts (tri-theistic).
A. God has a body, soul and spirit.
B. Jesus has a body, soul and spirit.
C. Holy Spirit has a body, soul and spirit. (Benny Hinn, Benny Hinn broadcast, recorded 10/13/90)

and

"He [Jesus] who is righteous by choice said, 'The only way I can stop sin is by Me becoming it. I can't just stop it by letting it touch Me; I and it must become one.' Hear this! He who is the nature of God became the nature of Satan where He became sin!" (Benny Hinn, TBN, 12/1/90)

So, why do you Quix think that Benny is not a liar con-man who spouts "non-biblical stuff from hell"?

9 gods?

But Bennie Hinn sure is a hit with gorgeous pastoresses

From the Curious Presbyterian website

Televangelist Benny Hinn is being sued by Strang Communications, a publishing company that alleges that Hinn violated a morality clause in their contract when he began an “inappropriate relationship” with Without Walls pastor Paula White.
In August, The National Enquirer published photos of Hinn and White holding hands in Rome. Hinn was married to Suzanne Hinn at the time. His wife had filed for divorce in February 2010.

She's pretty good looking for someone so filled with botox

Paul White -- the botox filled preacher who sleeps around with another preacher is pretty hot, I must admit.

Presently no screen name: And that would tie in with the muzzie's koran

Do you know that well?

And strangely enough, your post above spoke of only Christ's preaching and death. We Christians on the other hand celebrate Christ's rising from the Dead and Ascension into heaven too

I know it's difficult for some to accept the fact that JEsus Christ is God and they use this to attack the Church, but if you wish to believe or not believe that, that's your choice.

Are you even a Christian, pnsm?

oh and d-fendr, do note that Presently no screeno said: Jesus Christ was persecuted and died - that is the only focus for a Christian

Actually for us Christians we believe that Jesus Christ was persecuted, died, rose from the dead and is NOW sitting at the right hand of God the Father -- because Jesus Christ IS God

We Christians realise that it is difficult for many to acknowledge that, it is the central mystery of our Christian faith which is not only that Christ DIED, but more importantly that HE TRIUMPHED OVER DEATH, He rose again from the dead, He IS/WAS/will always be GOD

Non-Christians cannot acknowledge this fact of Jesus's resurrection and that Jesus Christ is God.

d-fendr -- take note if a person refuses to acknowledge the resurrection of the Lord that signifies a non-Christian belief denying the divinity of Christ.

Rashputin: Christ is the Word and Christ comes to us in the Eucharist so that we can be a part of the body of Christ. Only then can we begin to understand Him as our Savior and as the Word. As long as it is your own understanding that you rely on you worship your own understanding, not Jesus Christ.

Iscool: Maybe you should chow down on two or three of them crackers at a time when you get in line...One don't seem to be enough...

Typical -- someone talks about Christ and Iscool's sect can't respond back in Christ but posts a reply with personal nonsense

One day . . . every last thought,

every last word,

every last deed,

every last feeling

of Cronos will be laid out for all who have had anything to do with Cronos to see.

All will see then how well Cronos compared to Jesse Du Plantis in terms of pleasing God.

We shall see then how well Cronos managed to be Biblical in all he said and thought.

We shall see then how well Cronos managed to be logical in all he said and thought.

We shall see then how well Cronos managed to be Christ-like in all he said and thought.

We shall see then how well Cronos managed to love as he wanted to be loved.

We shall see then how well Cronos judged as he wanted to be judged.

Of course . . .

The same will be true for all of us.

in fact, some of the strangest descriptions I've seen are by some folks in their churches of one who tie themselves in knots by saying that

Jesus = Father = Holy Spirit in the sense that they all share the same will besides the same substance, that they are the same hypostatis!
And then they say God is only a Spirit

So, voila, this guy then denies the Incarnation as well as the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross

Quix:

All will see then how well ... compared to Jesse Du Plantis in terms of pleasing God.

you mean like when Jesse comforted Jesus Christ?

Or the other non-biblical stuff from hell that Jesse spouts?

zingers from Jesse's time in heaven

"As I stepped out of the chariot, everything I saw was so beautiful. I had always thought that when I went to heaven I would see only a city. But the first place I saw was Paradise; it hadn't been destroyed. Paradise is a big place, completely surrounding the Holy City. It is like being on another planet."
I saw Elohim, Jehovah God, Yahweh sitting on the Throne! But I saw His feet - only His feet. . . He is so big - you can’t describe Him in a dimension. His hand is huge! His body, the form of it, is sort of like energy, spirit. There’s a wall around the Throne, but the Throne is higher than the wall - that’s why you can see the Throne from every direction, from a distance. And that power, that energy-like smoke of God, covers all around the chair of the Throne itself."
"There was a cloud that looked like smoke going up from the Throne and I heard that massive sound, "whoosh! It was power like I’ve never experienced in my life. Then I saw God’s finger barely move and when it moved, an angel that was flying near Him was thrown up against a wall. Bam! It didn’t hurt the angel."
then Jesus starts to say how He is dreading the day when He has to send some of His creation to hell, so Jesse comes to Jesus's rescue! "I wanted to reach out and comfort Him, so I put my hand on the Lord. . .I could tell that Jesus was hurting."
"I didn’t know before how much He needed me to reach out to other people. I have always thought of how much I needed Him, not how much He needs me. . .He smiled at me and said, "I chose you. No one else wanted you, and I need you Jesse."

Do you actually believe that Jesse went to heaven and comforted Jesus?

The fact that your sect, Quixo ACTUALLY BELIEVE such wholesale gross UNBiblical deceptions from hell as Jesse Duplantis and Benny Hinn is incredbile!

Let's see the zingers from Jesse's time in heaven again!

"As I stepped out of the chariot, everything I saw was so beautiful. I had always thought that when I went to heaven I would see only a city. But the first place I saw was Paradise; it hadn't been destroyed. Paradise is a big place, completely surrounding the Holy City. It is like being on another planet."
I saw Elohim, Jehovah God, Yahweh sitting on the Throne! But I saw His feet - only His feet. . . He is so big - you can’t describe Him in a dimension. His hand is huge! His body, the form of it, is sort of like energy, spirit. There’s a wall around the Throne, but the Throne is higher than the wall - that’s why you can see the Throne from every direction, from a distance. And that power, that energy-like smoke of God, covers all around the chair of the Throne itself."
"There was a cloud that looked like smoke going up from the Throne and I heard that massive sound, "whoosh! It was power like I’ve never experienced in my life. Then I saw God’s finger barely move and when it moved, an angel that was flying near Him was thrown up against a wall. Bam! It didn’t hurt the angel."
then Jesus starts to say how He is dreading the day when He has to send some of His creation to hell, so Jesse comes to Jesus's rescue! "I wanted to reach out and comfort Him, so I put my hand on the Lord. . .I could tell that Jesus was hurting."
"I didn’t know before how much He needed me to reach out to other people. I have always thought of how much I needed Him, not how much He needs me. . .He smiled at me and said, "I chose you. No one else wanted you, and I need you Jesse."

Do you actually believe that Jesse went to heaven and comforted Jesus?

Jesse's description of Paradise being a place surrounding the Holy City -- where in the Bible is that?

What about Jesse's wholesale gross UNBiblical deceptions from hell where he talks about a wall around God?

What a con-man

And let's change the name here to

We shall see then how well Quix managed to be Christ-like in all he said and thought.

We shall see then how well Quix managed to love as he wanted to be loved.

We shall see then how well Quix judged as he wanted to be judged.

Now anyone who ACTUALLY BELIEVE such wholesale gross UNBiblical deceptions from hell as Jesse Duplantis' or Benny Hinn's needs to really wonder about the above.

But this is really incredible that you, Quix, could in any way defend such a con-artist, such a fake, such a demon-possessed fraud as Jesse (God doesn't have the power of death over you) Duplantis or Benny (there are 9 gods) Hinn.

Let's see the ways in which Quix's posts are defending Benny (9 gods) hinn:

post 1125: Many folks assume that because Benny Hinn doesn't fit our notions of integrity and a lot of other truly very important factors--GOD SIMPLY COULD NOT AND WOULD NOT EVER USE HIM IN ANY WAY FOR ANY REASON IN ANY CONTEXT.

From post 589: If God chooses to use Benny, that’s God’s business.

Quix's posts defending Jesse

post 1213: compared to Jesse Du Plantis in terms of pleasing God. -- don't you mean Jesse comforting God? Saying "there, there?"

This is defending Jesse who says

"Some people don't live close to God the way they should. They know Jesus as their Savior, but they could do so much better. In heaven they will eventually be able to go to God’s Throne, but it takes more time for them." -- interesting, even in heaven?
"They almost got there; then they stopped, turned around and had to go back. It seemed as if they were depressed. I heard someone say, "There is no depression here. Just eat of the Tree of Life, smell the leaves for healing and let your spirit grow. You shall stand at the Throne of God."" --> interesting, the sanctification process isn't completed in heaven?
David tells Jesse "I think I should have allowed more of the answer to come through, instead of the complaining. " --> oh, so Jesse thinks that scripture is NOT inspired, but what David allowed to come through? -- what unbiblical words from hell spoken by the demonic possessed fraud Jesse Duplantis
"I didn’t know before how much He needed me to reach out to other people. I have always thought of how much I needed Him, not how much He needs me. . .He smiled at me and said, "I chose you. No one else wanted you, and I need you Jesse." --> ego surfing!

and defending Benny who believes in 9 Gods...

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