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The Hidden Exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants
National Catholic Reporter ^ | April 18, 2011 | Thomas Reese

Posted on 04/20/2011 12:07:28 PM PDT by AnalogReigns

The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants

Apr. 18, 2011

Article Details

Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why

By Thomas Reese

Viewpoint

The number of people who have left the Catholic church is huge.

We all have heard stories about why people leave. Parents share stories about their children. Academics talk about their students. Everyone has a friend who has left.

While personal experience can be helpful, social science research forces us to look beyond our circle of acquaintances to see what is going on in the whole church.

The U.S. Religious Landscape Survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life has put hard numbers on the anecdotal evidence: One out of every 10 Americans is an ex-Catholic. If they were a separate denomination, they would be the third-largest denomination in the United States, after Catholics and Baptists. One of three people who were raised Catholic no longer identifies as Catholic.

Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why. But the U.S. bishops have never devoted any time at their national meetings to discussing the exodus. Nor have they spent a dime trying to find out why it is happening.

Thankfully, although the U.S. bishops have not supported research on people who have left the church, the Pew Center has.

Pew’s data shows that those leaving the church are not homogenous. They can be divided into two major groups: those who become unaffiliated and those who become Protestant. Almost half of those leaving the church become unaffiliated and almost half become Protestant. Only about 10 percent of ex-Catholics join non-Christian religions. This article will focus on Catholics who have become Protestant. I am not saying that those who become unaffiliated are not important; I am leaving that discussion to another time.

Why do people leave the Catholic church to become Protestant? Liberal Catholics will tell you that Catholics are leaving because they disagree with the church’s teaching on birth control, women priests, divorce, the bishops’ interference in American politics, etc. Conservatives blame Vatican II, liberal priests and nuns, a permissive culture and the church’s social justice agenda.

One of the reasons there is such disagreement is that we tend to think that everyone leaves for the same reason our friends, relatives and acquaintances have left. We fail to recognize that different people leave for different reasons. People who leave to join Protestant churches do so for different reasons than those who become unaffiliated. People who become evangelicals are different from Catholics who become members of mainline churches.

Spiritual needs

The principal reasons given by people who leave the church to become Protestant are that their “spiritual needs were not being met” in the Catholic church (71 percent) and they “found a religion they like more” (70 percent). Eighty-one percent of respondents say they joined their new church because they enjoy the religious service and style of worship of their new faith.

In other words, the Catholic church has failed to deliver what people consider fundamental products of religion: spiritual sustenance and a good worship service. And before conservatives blame the new liturgy, only 11 percent of those leaving complained that Catholicism had drifted too far from traditional practices such as the Latin Mass.

Dissatisfaction with how the church deals with spiritual needs and worship services dwarfs any disagreements over specific doctrines. While half of those who became Protestants say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teaching, specific questions get much lower responses. Only 23 percent said they left because of the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality; only 23 percent because of the church’s teaching on divorce; only 21 percent because of the rule that priests cannot marry; only 16 percent because of the church’s teaching on birth control; only 16 percent because of the way the church treats women; only 11 percent because they were unhappy with the teachings on poverty, war and the death penalty.

The data shows that disagreement over specific doctrines is not the main reason Catholics become Protestants. We also have lots of survey data showing that many Catholics who stay disagree with specific church teachings. Despite what theologians and bishops think, doctrine is not that important either to those who become Protestant or to those who stay Catholic.

People are not becoming Protestants because they disagree with specific Catholic teachings; people are leaving because the church does not meet their spiritual needs and they find Protestant worship service better.

Nor are the people becoming Protestants lazy or lax Christians. In fact, they attend worship services at a higher rate than those who remain Catholic. While 42 percent of Catholics who stay attend services weekly, 63 percent of Catholics who become Protestants go to church every week. That is a 21 percentage-point difference.

Catholics who became Protestant also claim to have a stronger faith now than when they were children or teenagers. Seventy-one percent say their faith is “very strong,” while only 35 percent and 22 percent reported that their faith was very strong when they were children and teenagers, respectively. On the other hand, only 46 percent of those who are still Catholic report their faith as “very strong” today as an adult.

Thus, both as believers and as worshipers, Catholics who become Protestants are statistically better Christians than those who stay Catholic. We are losing the best, not the worst.

Some of the common explanations of why people leave do not pan out in the data. For example, only 21 percent of those becoming Protestant mention the sex abuse scandal as a reason for leaving. Only 3 percent say they left because they became separated or divorced.

Becoming Protestant

If you believed liberals, most Catholics who leave the church would be joining mainline churches, like the Episcopal church. In fact, almost two-thirds of former Catholics who join a Protestant church join an evangelical church. Catholics who become evangelicals and Catholics who join mainline churches are two very distinct groups. We need to take a closer look at why each leaves the church.

Fifty-four percent of both groups say that they just gradually drifted away from Catholicism. Both groups also had almost equal numbers (82 percent evangelicals, 80 percent mainline) saying they joined their new church because they enjoyed the worship service. But compared to those who became mainline Protestants, a higher percentage of those becoming evangelicals said they left because their spiritual needs were not being met (78 percent versus 57 percent) and that they had stopped believing in Catholic teaching (62 percent versus 20 percent). They also cited the church’s teaching on the Bible (55 percent versus 16 percent) more frequently as a reason for leaving. Forty-six percent of these new evangelicals felt the Catholic church did not view the Bible literally enough. Thus, for those leaving to become evangelicals, spiritual sustenance, worship services and the Bible were key. Only 11 percent were unhappy with the church’s teachings on poverty, war, and the death penalty Ñ the same percentage as said they were unhappy with the church’s treatment of women. Contrary to what conservatives say, ex-Catholics are not flocking to the evangelicals because they think the Catholic church is politically too liberal. They are leaving to get spiritual nourishment from worship services and the Bible.

Looking at the responses of those who join mainline churches also provides some surprising results. For example, few (20 percent) say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teachings. However, when specific issues were mentioned in the questionnaire, more of those joining mainline churches agreed that these issues influenced their decision to leave the Catholic church. Thirty-one percent cited unhappiness with the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality, women, and divorce and remarriage, and 26 percent mentioned birth control as a reason for leaving. Although these numbers are higher than for Catholics who become evangelicals, they are still dwarfed by the number (57 percent) who said their spiritual needs were not met in the Catholic church.

Thus, those becoming evangelicals were more generically unhappy than specifically unhappy with church teaching, while those who became mainline Protestant tended to be more specifically unhappy than generically unhappy with church teaching. The unhappiness with the church’s teaching on poverty, war and the death penalty was equally low for both groups (11 percent for evangelicals; 10 percent for mainline).

What stands out in the data on Catholics who join mainline churches is that they tend to cite personal or familiar reasons for leaving more frequently than do those who become evangelicals. Forty-four percent of the Catholics who join mainline churches say that they married someone of the faith they joined, a number that trumps all doctrinal issues. Only 22 percent of those who join the evangelicals cite this reason.

Perhaps after marrying a mainline Christian and attending his or her church’s services, the Catholic found the mainline services more fulfilling than the Catholic service. And even if they were equally attractive, perhaps the exclusion of the Protestant spouse from Catholic Communion makes the more welcoming mainline church attractive to an ecumenical couple.

Those joining mainline communities also were more likely to cite dissatisfaction of the Catholic clergy (39 percent) than were those who became evangelical (23 percent). Those who join mainline churches are looking for a less clerically dominated church.

Lessons from the data

There are many lessons that we can learn from the Pew data, but I will focus on only three.

First, those who are leaving the church for Protestant churches are more interested in spiritual nourishment than doctrinal issues. Tinkering with the wording of the creed at Mass is not going to help. No one except the Vatican and the bishops cares whether Jesus is “one in being” with the Father or “consubstantial” with the Father. That the hierarchy thinks this is important shows how out of it they are.

While the hierarchy worries about literal translations of the Latin text, people are longing for liturgies that touch the heart and emotions. More creativity with the liturgy is needed, and that means more flexibility must be allowed. If you build it, they will come; if you do not, they will find it elsewhere. The changes that will go into effect this Advent will make matters worse, not better.

Second, thanks to Pope Pius XII, Catholic scripture scholars have had decades to produce the best thinking on scripture in the world. That Catholics are leaving to join evangelical churches because of the church teaching on the Bible is a disgrace. Too few homilists explain the scriptures to their people. Few Catholics read the Bible.

The church needs a massive Bible education program. The church needs to acknowledge that understanding the Bible is more important than memorizing the catechism. If we could get Catholics to read the Sunday scripture readings each week before they come to Mass, it would be revolutionary. If you do not read and pray the scriptures, you are not an adult Christian. Catholics who become evangelicals understand this.

Finally, the Pew data shows that two-thirds of Catholics who become Protestants do so before they reach the age of 24. The church must make a preferential option for teenagers and young adults or it will continue to bleed. Programs and liturgies that cater to their needs must take precedence over the complaints of fuddy-duddies and rubrical purists.

Current religious education programs and teen groups appear to have little effect on keeping these folks Catholic, according to the Pew data, although those who attend a Catholic high school do appear to stay at a higher rate. More research is needed to find out what works and what does not.

The Catholic church is hemorrhaging members. It needs to acknowledge this and do more to understand why. Only if we acknowledge the exodus and understand it will we be in a position to do something about it.

[Jesuit Fr. Thomas J. Reese, former editor in chief of America, is a senior fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center at Georgetown University in Washington. He is working on a new book: Survival Guide for Thinking Catholics.]

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Links:
[1] http://ncronline.org/files/04152011p01phb.jpg


TOPICS: Catholic; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholic; evangelical; exodus; protestant
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To: CTrent1564
Nothing new here, Protestantism will continue to fragment and many who go to it from Catholicism will change to another form of Protestantism than the one they intitially went to. Protestantism is incapable of challenging the secular culture and will always be fragmented into thousands of competing sects and groups.

Catholics do not understand that Evangelical Protestants have small doctrinal differences ..sometimes less than one finds in members of Romanism ... we share in common those doctrines that impact on salvation and scripture..That makes us Christian family ... whether one is Charismatic or presbyterian or baptist etc.. we all share Christ as Savior and Lord..

It amuses me when Catholics think they are spitting out a dirty word when they say sects.. Christianity was considered a sect by the jews during the days of Acts..

81 posted on 04/20/2011 1:31:02 PM PDT by RnMomof7 ( "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you,)
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To: JenB
but anyone who doesn’t understand or feel that is not really going to get much out of most masses I’ve attended.

This is exactly right, which is the root of why I said it's understandable that many poorly catechized catholics leave the church for a better worship experience.

It is possible to have elevated liturgy with the Novus Ordo, it's just seldom done. How many catholics can explain what the "propers" of the mass are? I am guessing very few - maybe 0.1%.

IMHO the reason the Extraordinary form (Tridentine Latin Mass) is almost universally well celebrated today is that those who care enough to seek it out (laity) or learn to celebrate it (priests) are likely to want to have an elevated liturgy to begin with.

82 posted on 04/20/2011 1:31:46 PM PDT by jtal
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To: Campion
Evangelical Protestants think how you worship doesn’t really matter?

It depends on what you mean by how. The content certainly matters. The manner in which the content is delivered--whether you have a pastor in a suit or wearing blue jeans, for instance--is irrelevant. Faith, not works.

Incidentally, if you're so inclined, our Pastor did a sermon on this very topic not long ago. If you want to hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak, I'd be happy to send you the link.

83 posted on 04/20/2011 1:32:39 PM PDT by Publius Valerius
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To: RnMomof7

RnMomof7:

And your opinion proves there was no apostolic succession.

The opinion of St. Clement of Rome, St. Ireneaus of Lyons, St. Cyprian of Carthage, St. Jerome, St. Augustine is against you. I will side with those great theologians whose writings against the heretics of the early Church stand as a witness to legitimate and orthodox Doctrine.

On the question of Apostolic Succession, Prof. JND Kelly [Anglican-Church of England] writes:

“[W]here in practice was [the] apostolic testimony or tradition to be found? . . . The most obvious answer was that the apostles had committed it orally to the Church, where it had been handed down from generation to generation. . . . Unlike the alleged secret tradition of the Gnostics, it was entirely public and open, having been entrusted by the apostles to their successors, and by these in turn to those who followed them, and was visible in the Church for all who cared to look for it” (See Early Christian Doctrines, p. 37).

For the early Fathers, “the identity of the oral tradition with the original revelation is guaranteed by the unbroken succession of bishops in the great sees going back lineally to the apostles. . . . [A]n additional safeguard is supplied by the Holy Spirit, for the message committed was to the Church, and the Church is the home of the Spirit. Indeed, the Church’s bishops are . . . Spirit-endowed men who have been vouchsafed ‘an infallible charism of truth’” (Early Christian Doctrines).

Prof Kelly is considered one of the leading Patristic scholars of the 20th century and his work can be found at Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Early-Christian-Doctrines-J-Kelly/dp/006064334X/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1303330939&sr=8-4

So I leave all the readers of this forum to make a decision based on the testimony of the CHurch Fathers and Professor Kelly or RnMomof7 when thinking about your statement “the truth is there is no apostolic succession in the NT church”

tsk, tsk,


84 posted on 04/20/2011 1:34:37 PM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: JenB

I used to go to a mass on Saturday and a protestant service on Sundays ... Then one day I realized I believed little of Catholic doctrine anymore so why was I going to a catholic mass?? I finally left..


85 posted on 04/20/2011 1:36:12 PM PDT by RnMomof7 ( "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you,)
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To: jtal

As a non catholic who does attend mass, the old style doesn’t appeal to me either. I’ve attended Anglican Use masses which I believe are closer to the old mass except in English. They’re lovely but they don’t appeal to me at all. Again its a theology thing. Since I don’t believe in the sacrifice that you are seeing, I go to church to worship God. The traditional style is very elegant but is more like eating other people worship than participating.

Cultural bias, I’m sure, but I don’t feel properly churched without a few good rousing hymns and some improv praying.


86 posted on 04/20/2011 1:37:36 PM PDT by JenB
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To: Campion
And that true doctrine is what brings Protestants into it.

Only those that were never saved..intellectual or cultural protestants..

87 posted on 04/20/2011 1:37:37 PM PDT by RnMomof7 ( "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you,)
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To: Campion
And that true doctrine is what brings Protestants into it.

Only those that were never saved..intellectual or cultural protestants..

88 posted on 04/20/2011 1:37:51 PM PDT by RnMomof7 ( "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you,)
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To: RnMomof7

I attend with my husband. He attends the Presbyterian church with me. We both think it’d more important to attend together than to worry if one of us isn’t getting enough out of a particular service.

Of course these days I have to leave halfway through to take the toddler to the car...


89 posted on 04/20/2011 1:41:58 PM PDT by JenB
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To: Publius Valerius
The manner in which the content is delivered--whether you have a pastor in a suit or wearing blue jeans, for instance--is irrelevant.

I'm talking about considerably more than the pastor's sartorial tastes. I've also known enough Protestants, and enough Protestant pastors, to know how painstakingly pastors are judged by their congregations on every aspect of their preaching.

90 posted on 04/20/2011 1:42:28 PM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: jtal
It is possible to have elevated liturgy with the Novus Ordo, it's just seldom done. How many catholics can explain what the "propers" of the mass are? I am guessing very few - maybe 0.1%.

And most Catholics do not know Christ in a salvific way..they do not have the most basic understanding of Hermeneutics ... The word of God low in their priority... I do not think God will ask what the "propers" are.. He will ask you why you should be admitted to heaven ..what would you say to that ?

91 posted on 04/20/2011 1:43:11 PM PDT by RnMomof7 ( "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you,)
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To: RnMomof7
Only those that were never saved

Sweeping judgments much?

92 posted on 04/20/2011 1:45:22 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: JenB

How will your child be raised?


93 posted on 04/20/2011 1:45:52 PM PDT by RnMomof7 ( "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you,)
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To: RnMomof7
Only those that were never saved..intellectual or cultural protestants

LOL ... some of whom spent their "never saved, intellectual, cultural" protestant lives behind pulpits in "Bible-believing" Protestant churches.

I know some of those folks; they're friends of mine. They're anything but how you describe them to be.

94 posted on 04/20/2011 1:45:52 PM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: RnMomof7

I don’t think God will ask what your own personal “hermeneutics” are either.


95 posted on 04/20/2011 1:46:52 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Campion
You mean this paper?

Following is the text of a statement issued by Bishop Charles H. Helmsing of Kansas City - St. Joseph (Mo) Diocese. The statement pertains to the National Catholic Reporter, which is published in the diocese and is an outgrowth of its diocesan newspaper

The Catholic Reporter, formerly the official newspaper of the Kansas City - St. Joseph, was begun by my predecessor under a policy of editorial freedom. That policy of editorial freedom [I] endorsed on my appointment as bishop of Kansas City - St. Joseph. When the National Catholic Reporter was launched, that original policy of editorial freedom was announced as basic to the new publication.

At all times it was presumed that the policy of editorial freedom was none other than that legitimate liberty declared and defended by the Second Vatican Council in its Declaration on Religious Liberty, further defined in the conciliar Decree on Communications, and, likewise, defended in the Constitution on the Church in the Modern World. It could not imply that pseudo-freedom from man's obligations to his Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier in vogue under the standard of the 19th century liberalism. It could not imply, as a conciliar declaration on religious liberty clearly states, freedom in the moral order. As Cardinal Koenig pointed out in his recent address to editors, there is a legitimate freedom of opinion to be exercised by the Catholic press so long as it is absolutely loyal to the Church's teachings. If an editor is to merit the name "Catholic," he must remember "to think with the Church."

As long as the Catholic editor carries the name Catholic, he can never forget that he is a teacher of Christ's revelation. What he writes necessarily touches on faith -- that gift of the Holy Spirit which "we carry in earthen vessels" and by which we accept Christ, the Word of God Incarnate, and His revelation.

The Catholic editor must manifest a reverence which must shine through in his attitude and in his every expression. The Gospel is clear on the destructive effects of ridicule, for example, in recounting of the taunts hurled at Simon Peter: "You also were with Jesus of Nazareth," and their effects on him who, once converted, was to confirm his brethren.

As the editors of the National Catholic Reporter know, I have tried as their pastor, responsible for their eternal welfare, and that of those whom they influence, to guide them on a responsible course in harmony with Catholic teachings. When private conferences were of no avail, as is well known, I had to issue a public reprimand for their policy of crusading against the Church's teachings on the transmission of human life, and against the Gospel values of sacred virginity and dedicated celibacy as taught by the Church.

NOW, AS a last resort, I am forced as bishop to issue a condemnation of the National Catholic Reporter for its disregard and denial of the most sacred values of our Catholic faith. Within recent months the National Catholic Reporter has expressed itself in belittling the basic truths expressed in the Creed of Pope Paul VI; it has made itself a platform for the airing of heretical views on the Church and its divinely constituted structure, as taught by the First and Second Vatican Councils. Vehemently to be reprobated was the airing in recent editions of an attack on the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary and the virgin birth of Christ, by one of its contributors.
Finally, it has given lengthy space to a blasphemous and heretical attack on the Vicar of Christ. It is difficult to see how well instructed writers who deliberately deny and ridicule dogmas of our Catholic faith can possibly escape the guilt of the crime defined in Canon 1325 on heresy, and how they can escape the penalties of automatic excommunication entailed thereby.

In fairness to our Catholic people, I hereby issue an official condemnation of the National Catholic Reporter. Furthermore, I send this communication to my brother bishops, and make known to the priests, religious and laity of the nation my views on the poisonous character of this publication.

As a bishop, a member of the college of bishops, and one in union with the head of the college, Christ's Vicar on earth, I proclaim with my brother bishops that the Church is, indeed, always in need of reform. This reform is a matter of putting on the mind of Christ, as St. Paul declared, through our contemplation of Christ in His teachings and through our loyalty to the teachings of the Church so painstakingly expressed in recent years in the constitutions, decrees and declarations of the Second Vatican Council.

The status of the world when our Lord came was a deplorable one. We are not surprised that the status of man, wounded by original sin, remains deplorable as long as he does not heed the voice of Christ and his authoritative teacher, his Church. Sociological studies, according to modern techniques, can help us appreciate the status quo -- the exact thinking and acting and attitudes of our people. For this we are grateful. But it is a total reversal of our Divine Lord's policy to imagine for a moment that the disclosure of attitudes through such surveys becomes the norm of human conduct or thinking.

Christ and His apostles preached first and foremost penance, metanoia, the change of mind and heart. The Church continues to do so today, but it finds itself increasingly more frustrated in its teaching of the ideals of our Lord by the type of reporting, editorializing and ridicule that have become the week-after-week fare of the National Catholic Reporter.

IN AS MUCH as the National Catholic Reporter does not reflect the teaching of the Church, but on the contrary, has openly and deliberately opposed this teaching. I ask the editors in all honesty to drop the term "Catholic" from their masthead. By retaining it they deceive their Catholic readers and do a great disservice to ecumenism by being responsible for the false irenicism of watering down Catholic teachings.

I further ask the editors and the board of directors, for the love of God and their fellow men, to change their misguided and evil policy; for it is evident to me that they have already caused untold harm to the faith and morals not only of our laity, but of too many of our priests and religious.

I make this statement with apostolic freedom as given by our Lord to His followers; I make it conscious of the heavy burden that is mine as a bishop, as one enjoined by the Holy Spirit through the pen of St. Paul: "Reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine; for there will come a time when they will not endure the sound doctrines; but having itching ears, will heap up to themselves teachers according to their own lust, and they will turn away their hearing from the truth and will turn aside rather to fables." (2 Tim. 4:2-4)

96 posted on 04/20/2011 1:47:10 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good-Pope Leo XIII)
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To: AnalogReigns
This author speaks to BOTH the liberal and the conservative Roman Catholic explanations...finding them BOTH inadequate, when people who’ve left are actually asked.

I think the author misses the point entirely. The liturgy is the expression of belief. As they say: "lex credendi est lex orandi." We must simply acknowledge that those who left do so because they do not believe what is professed in the liturgy. Simply keeping Catholics in the pews is rather pointless if they don't believe the faith professed in the liturgy. Making the litury more "fun" and "interesting" is beside the point if it does not ultimately express the ancient faith of the Church - which seems to be what many Catholic liberals want.

It is no wonder fewer Catholics believe in transubstantiation today, and it is probably the case that those who left did not; for if those who left had and did, they never would have left the Catholic Church - no matter how bad they perceived the liturgy to be - for the empty, merely symbolic passing of bread in protestant churches.

There are probably multiple reasons for this apostasy, some of the causes the author of the article seems to deny - but I suggest poor catechesis is near the top, if not at the top. The very argument over good Latin translations into English is an important, needed step to insure the maxim" already quoted - "lex credendi est lex orandi." Thus, it goes to the heart of the problem the author does not seem to comprehend, having gotten lost in statistics.

97 posted on 04/20/2011 1:47:10 PM PDT by Miles the Slasher
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To: RnMomof7
I do not think God will ask what the "propers" are.. He will ask you why you should be admitted to heaven

Nowhere in Scripture do you find God asking anyone that question. Salvation is not based on answering a quiz correctly.

98 posted on 04/20/2011 1:47:15 PM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: tiki
That is a bogus quote, if they were really the best then they’d have understood that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ our Savior and they couldn’t have been pulled away by a team of horses.

Yes, that's the party line.

99 posted on 04/20/2011 1:52:41 PM PDT by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends listen to dispensationalists.")
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To: RnMomof7

Well we’re homeschooling so her religious education will be from us and not any church. Probably we’ll do Sunday School when she’s that age.... And we had long long talks about baptism before choosing the PCA church we attend. All in all religious upbringing was something we’ve discussed white a bit before getting married.... We were aware that it wouldn’t be exactly easy....


100 posted on 04/20/2011 1:52:47 PM PDT by JenB
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