Posted on 04/20/2011 12:07:28 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
Apr. 18, 2011
Article Details
Viewpoint
The number of people who have left the Catholic church is huge.
We all have heard stories about why people leave. Parents share stories about their children. Academics talk about their students. Everyone has a friend who has left.
While personal experience can be helpful, social science research forces us to look beyond our circle of acquaintances to see what is going on in the whole church.
The U.S. Religious Landscape Survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life has put hard numbers on the anecdotal evidence: One out of every 10 Americans is an ex-Catholic. If they were a separate denomination, they would be the third-largest denomination in the United States, after Catholics and Baptists. One of three people who were raised Catholic no longer identifies as Catholic.
Any other institution that lost one-third of its members would want to know why. But the U.S. bishops have never devoted any time at their national meetings to discussing the exodus. Nor have they spent a dime trying to find out why it is happening.
Thankfully, although the U.S. bishops have not supported research on people who have left the church, the Pew Center has.
Pew’s data shows that those leaving the church are not homogenous. They can be divided into two major groups: those who become unaffiliated and those who become Protestant. Almost half of those leaving the church become unaffiliated and almost half become Protestant. Only about 10 percent of ex-Catholics join non-Christian religions. This article will focus on Catholics who have become Protestant. I am not saying that those who become unaffiliated are not important; I am leaving that discussion to another time.
Why do people leave the Catholic church to become Protestant? Liberal Catholics will tell you that Catholics are leaving because they disagree with the church’s teaching on birth control, women priests, divorce, the bishops’ interference in American politics, etc. Conservatives blame Vatican II, liberal priests and nuns, a permissive culture and the church’s social justice agenda.
One of the reasons there is such disagreement is that we tend to think that everyone leaves for the same reason our friends, relatives and acquaintances have left. We fail to recognize that different people leave for different reasons. People who leave to join Protestant churches do so for different reasons than those who become unaffiliated. People who become evangelicals are different from Catholics who become members of mainline churches.
Spiritual needs
The principal reasons given by people who leave the church to become Protestant are that their “spiritual needs were not being met” in the Catholic church (71 percent) and they “found a religion they like more” (70 percent). Eighty-one percent of respondents say they joined their new church because they enjoy the religious service and style of worship of their new faith.
In other words, the Catholic church has failed to deliver what people consider fundamental products of religion: spiritual sustenance and a good worship service. And before conservatives blame the new liturgy, only 11 percent of those leaving complained that Catholicism had drifted too far from traditional practices such as the Latin Mass.
Dissatisfaction with how the church deals with spiritual needs and worship services dwarfs any disagreements over specific doctrines. While half of those who became Protestants say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teaching, specific questions get much lower responses. Only 23 percent said they left because of the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality; only 23 percent because of the church’s teaching on divorce; only 21 percent because of the rule that priests cannot marry; only 16 percent because of the church’s teaching on birth control; only 16 percent because of the way the church treats women; only 11 percent because they were unhappy with the teachings on poverty, war and the death penalty.
The data shows that disagreement over specific doctrines is not the main reason Catholics become Protestants. We also have lots of survey data showing that many Catholics who stay disagree with specific church teachings. Despite what theologians and bishops think, doctrine is not that important either to those who become Protestant or to those who stay Catholic.
People are not becoming Protestants because they disagree with specific Catholic teachings; people are leaving because the church does not meet their spiritual needs and they find Protestant worship service better.
Nor are the people becoming Protestants lazy or lax Christians. In fact, they attend worship services at a higher rate than those who remain Catholic. While 42 percent of Catholics who stay attend services weekly, 63 percent of Catholics who become Protestants go to church every week. That is a 21 percentage-point difference.
Catholics who became Protestant also claim to have a stronger faith now than when they were children or teenagers. Seventy-one percent say their faith is “very strong,” while only 35 percent and 22 percent reported that their faith was very strong when they were children and teenagers, respectively. On the other hand, only 46 percent of those who are still Catholic report their faith as “very strong” today as an adult.
Thus, both as believers and as worshipers, Catholics who become Protestants are statistically better Christians than those who stay Catholic. We are losing the best, not the worst.
Some of the common explanations of why people leave do not pan out in the data. For example, only 21 percent of those becoming Protestant mention the sex abuse scandal as a reason for leaving. Only 3 percent say they left because they became separated or divorced.
Becoming Protestant
If you believed liberals, most Catholics who leave the church would be joining mainline churches, like the Episcopal church. In fact, almost two-thirds of former Catholics who join a Protestant church join an evangelical church. Catholics who become evangelicals and Catholics who join mainline churches are two very distinct groups. We need to take a closer look at why each leaves the church.
Fifty-four percent of both groups say that they just gradually drifted away from Catholicism. Both groups also had almost equal numbers (82 percent evangelicals, 80 percent mainline) saying they joined their new church because they enjoyed the worship service. But compared to those who became mainline Protestants, a higher percentage of those becoming evangelicals said they left because their spiritual needs were not being met (78 percent versus 57 percent) and that they had stopped believing in Catholic teaching (62 percent versus 20 percent). They also cited the church’s teaching on the Bible (55 percent versus 16 percent) more frequently as a reason for leaving. Forty-six percent of these new evangelicals felt the Catholic church did not view the Bible literally enough. Thus, for those leaving to become evangelicals, spiritual sustenance, worship services and the Bible were key. Only 11 percent were unhappy with the church’s teachings on poverty, war, and the death penalty Ñ the same percentage as said they were unhappy with the church’s treatment of women. Contrary to what conservatives say, ex-Catholics are not flocking to the evangelicals because they think the Catholic church is politically too liberal. They are leaving to get spiritual nourishment from worship services and the Bible.
Looking at the responses of those who join mainline churches also provides some surprising results. For example, few (20 percent) say they left because they stopped believing in Catholic teachings. However, when specific issues were mentioned in the questionnaire, more of those joining mainline churches agreed that these issues influenced their decision to leave the Catholic church. Thirty-one percent cited unhappiness with the church’s teaching on abortion and homosexuality, women, and divorce and remarriage, and 26 percent mentioned birth control as a reason for leaving. Although these numbers are higher than for Catholics who become evangelicals, they are still dwarfed by the number (57 percent) who said their spiritual needs were not met in the Catholic church.
Thus, those becoming evangelicals were more generically unhappy than specifically unhappy with church teaching, while those who became mainline Protestant tended to be more specifically unhappy than generically unhappy with church teaching. The unhappiness with the church’s teaching on poverty, war and the death penalty was equally low for both groups (11 percent for evangelicals; 10 percent for mainline).
What stands out in the data on Catholics who join mainline churches is that they tend to cite personal or familiar reasons for leaving more frequently than do those who become evangelicals. Forty-four percent of the Catholics who join mainline churches say that they married someone of the faith they joined, a number that trumps all doctrinal issues. Only 22 percent of those who join the evangelicals cite this reason.
Perhaps after marrying a mainline Christian and attending his or her church’s services, the Catholic found the mainline services more fulfilling than the Catholic service. And even if they were equally attractive, perhaps the exclusion of the Protestant spouse from Catholic Communion makes the more welcoming mainline church attractive to an ecumenical couple.
Those joining mainline communities also were more likely to cite dissatisfaction of the Catholic clergy (39 percent) than were those who became evangelical (23 percent). Those who join mainline churches are looking for a less clerically dominated church.
Lessons from the data
There are many lessons that we can learn from the Pew data, but I will focus on only three.
First, those who are leaving the church for Protestant churches are more interested in spiritual nourishment than doctrinal issues. Tinkering with the wording of the creed at Mass is not going to help. No one except the Vatican and the bishops cares whether Jesus is “one in being” with the Father or “consubstantial” with the Father. That the hierarchy thinks this is important shows how out of it they are.
While the hierarchy worries about literal translations of the Latin text, people are longing for liturgies that touch the heart and emotions. More creativity with the liturgy is needed, and that means more flexibility must be allowed. If you build it, they will come; if you do not, they will find it elsewhere. The changes that will go into effect this Advent will make matters worse, not better.
Second, thanks to Pope Pius XII, Catholic scripture scholars have had decades to produce the best thinking on scripture in the world. That Catholics are leaving to join evangelical churches because of the church teaching on the Bible is a disgrace. Too few homilists explain the scriptures to their people. Few Catholics read the Bible.
The church needs a massive Bible education program. The church needs to acknowledge that understanding the Bible is more important than memorizing the catechism. If we could get Catholics to read the Sunday scripture readings each week before they come to Mass, it would be revolutionary. If you do not read and pray the scriptures, you are not an adult Christian. Catholics who become evangelicals understand this.
Finally, the Pew data shows that two-thirds of Catholics who become Protestants do so before they reach the age of 24. The church must make a preferential option for teenagers and young adults or it will continue to bleed. Programs and liturgies that cater to their needs must take precedence over the complaints of fuddy-duddies and rubrical purists.
Current religious education programs and teen groups appear to have little effect on keeping these folks Catholic, according to the Pew data, although those who attend a Catholic high school do appear to stay at a higher rate. More research is needed to find out what works and what does not.
The Catholic church is hemorrhaging members. It needs to acknowledge this and do more to understand why. Only if we acknowledge the exodus and understand it will we be in a position to do something about it.
[Jesuit Fr. Thomas J. Reese, former editor in chief of America, is a senior fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center at Georgetown University in Washington. He is working on a new book: Survival Guide for Thinking Catholics.]
Links:
[1] http://ncronline.org/files/04152011p01phb.jpg
A Pastor should be judged on the content of his message. If he is being judged by the congregation on another basis, that, in my mind, is a failing of the congregation (and, ironically, the Pastor, for allowing his congregation to fall into that trap) and--more importantly--unChristian.
Then answer the question.
Where’s the Bible for it? With your next dodge, it can be safely concluded that there is none. Right?
I’m married to a former Catholic and you hit the nail on the head. We go to an Evangelical nondenominational church and every week we leave on Sunday inspired (and convicted) by the message to apply Biblical teachings to our daily lives.
This relevancy is appealing in such a lost world.
You should have made that 10 seconds. ;O)
Rather interesting article. I'm rather surprise a large percentage ends up attending evangelical churches.
Wrong. It's a straight forward question that you refuse to answer. I can only guess it's out of ignorance.
The question was: "He is going to ask why He should admit you into heaven.. What would you as a catholic say?"
Instead of an answer it's the typical 2 step. It's alright, our churches are gaining members seeking the answer.
So. The question is not in the Bible. It's just made up by some preacher.
Sorry, I must be on the wrong website. Somehow I thought I was on Free Republic.
"The enemy has, indeed, long been prowling about the fold and attacking it with such subtle cunning that now, more than ever before, the prediction of the Apostle to the elders of the Church of Ephesus seems to be verified: "I know that . . . fierce wolves will get in among you, and will not spare the flock."[1] Those who still are zealous for the glory of God are seeking the causes and reasons for this decline in religion. Coming to a different explanation, each points out, according to his own view, a different plan for the protection and restoration of the kingdom of God on earth. But it seems to Vs, Venerable Brethren, that while we should not overlook other considerations, We are forced to agree with those who hold that the chief cause of the present indifference and, as it were, infirmity of soul, and the serious evils that result from it, is to be found above all in ignorance of things divine. This is fully in accord with what God Himself declared through the Prophet Osee: "And there is no knowledge of God in the land. Cursing and lying and killing and theft and adultery have overflowed: and blood hath touched blood. Thereafter shall the land mourn, and everyone that dwelleth in it shall languish."
2. It is a common complaint, unfortunately too well founded, that there are large numbers of Christians in our own time who are entirely ignorant of those truths necessary for salvation. And when we mention Christians, We refer not only to the masses or to those in the lower walks of life - for these find some excuse for their ignorance in the fact that the demands of their harsh employers hardly leave them time to take care of themselves or of their dear ones - but We refer to those especially who do not lack culture or talents and, indeed, are possessed of abundant knowledge regarding things of the world but live rashly and imprudently with regard to religion. It is hard to find words to describe how profound is the darkness in which they are engulfed and, what is most deplorable of all, how tranquilly they repose there"
---------------------------------------------
“They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would no doubt have remained with us; but that they may be manifest, that they are not all of us”. (1 John 2-9)
----------------------------------------------------
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra:
“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia productive of eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”
"The enemy has, indeed, long been prowling about the fold and attacking it with such subtle cunning that now, more than ever before, the prediction of the Apostle to the elders of the Church of Ephesus seems to be verified: "I know that . . . fierce wolves will get in among you, and will not spare the flock."[1] Those who still are zealous for the glory of God are seeking the causes and reasons for this decline in religion. Coming to a different explanation, each points out, according to his own view, a different plan for the protection and restoration of the kingdom of God on earth. But it seems to Vs, Venerable Brethren, that while we should not overlook other considerations, We are forced to agree with those who hold that the chief cause of the present indifference and, as it were, infirmity of soul, and the serious evils that result from it, is to be found above all in ignorance of things divine. This is fully in accord with what God Himself declared through the Prophet Osee: "And there is no knowledge of God in the land. Cursing and lying and killing and theft and adultery have overflowed: and blood hath touched blood. Thereafter shall the land mourn, and everyone that dwelleth in it shall languish."
2. It is a common complaint, unfortunately too well founded, that there are large numbers of Christians in our own time who are entirely ignorant of those truths necessary for salvation. And when we mention Christians, We refer not only to the masses or to those in the lower walks of life - for these find some excuse for their ignorance in the fact that the demands of their harsh employers hardly leave them time to take care of themselves or of their dear ones - but We refer to those especially who do not lack culture or talents and, indeed, are possessed of abundant knowledge regarding things of the world but live rashly and imprudently with regard to religion. It is hard to find words to describe how profound is the darkness in which they are engulfed and, what is most deplorable of all, how tranquilly they repose there"
---------------------------------------------
“They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would no doubt have remained with us; but that they may be manifest, that they are not all of us”. (1 John 2-9)
----------------------------------------------------
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra:
“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia productive of eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”
Liberals may quote Rasmussen polls to try to make a point. It doesn't make the statistics wrong. What solutions they conclude may (and often are) incorrect.
Don-o, it sounds a lot like Gnosticism to me. The Mormons think you have to have the special handshakes and the Five Points of Fellowship of the Melchizedek Priesthood to get into heaven. Maybe the Evangelicals think you have to be able to glibly recite a "testimony" of their "Gospel".
Neither one is Scriptural.
wmfights, I don't believe God is going to be asking me any questions when I die. He has all the answers already.
But if I'm wrong, here's a picture of my defense attorney. All questions should be addressed to him:
You're the one who said he was being smeared, not me.
If Catholics are leaving to become evangelicals then there must be a problem.
Never said otherwise. But the problem was caused precisely by some of the things Reese identifies as the solutions. Lorica's post #114 identifies exactly what I'm talking about.
Compare the dogmatic decree of 1441 Pope Eugene IV’s, Council of Florence, Cantate Domino, AND and “Christ Among Us”, by Fr. Anthony Wilhelm, the major religious text for Catholic High School students and for adult education in America. First published in 1967 by Paulist Press, it has sold over 2,000,000 copies)
Oil and Vinegar, the two will never mix.
Olive Oil Catholicism
Among adults there are few saved, because of the sins of the flesh....With exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned. (St. Remigius of Rheims)
If you only knew the women who will go to Hell because they did not bring into the world the children they should have given to it. ( St. John Vianney)
They who are to be saved as Saints, and wish to be saved as imperfect souls, shall not be saved. (Pope St. Gregory the Great)
A multitude of souls fall into the depths of Hell. (St. Anthony Mary Claret - It has been revealed that on the day St. Bernard their also died 79,999 other people, and of this total of 80,000 who died, only St. Bernard and two other monks were saved. So out of 80,000 dead, 79,999 went to Hell.
So vast a number of miserable souls perish, and so comparatively few are saved! (St. Philip Neri)
Scarcely anyone is saved. (St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori)
_________________________________________________________
Vinegar Catholicism
“There are other ways of being united to God besides baptism. Most of the human race has never heard of or cannot believe in Christ or baptism. As the world population increases, Christians become proportionately less. The Christian life begun by baptism is becoming more and more the privilege and responsibility of a few. Most of humanity is united with God in other ways. (op. cit., p. 199).
Many men come to God in this way through other, nonChristian religions ... So, too, one who cannot believe in a personal God, through no fault of his own, but is committed to following his conscience, receives God’s grace pre sence God lives within many unbelievers, though they may oppose him or those who try to work for him. (p.200).
Theology has no complete answer as to how, or even whether anyone may be damned forever.
(p. 289, Christ Among Us, by Fr. Anthony Wilhelm. The major religious text for Catholic High School students and for adult education in America. First published in 1967 by Paulist Press, it has sold over 2,000,000 copies)
unedited original:
DESIRE AND DECEPTION 119
The major religious text for Catholic High School students and for adult education in America was Christ Among Us, by the then Fr. Anthony Wilhelm, C.S.P. First published in 1967 by Paulist Press (ah, our old friends!), it has sold over 2,000,000 copies, although publication was switched to the secular firm of Harper and Row after the Vatican insisted Archbishop Gerety’s imprimatur be removed a few years ago. Your author will now share with his readers its insights on the question of salvation:
There are other ways of being united to God besides baptism. Most of the human race has never heard of or cannot believe in Christ or baptism. As the world population increases, Christians become proportionately less. The Christian life begun by baptism is becoming more and more the privilege and responsibility of a few. Most of humanity is united with God in other ways. (op. cit., p. 199).
Many men come to God in this way through other, nonChristian religions ... So, too, one who cannot believe in a personal God, through no fault of his own, but is committed to following his conscience, receives God’s grace pre
sence God lives within many unbelievers, though they may
oppose him or those who try to work for him. (p.200).
Theology has no complete answer as to how, or even whether anyone may be damned forever. (p. 289).
This heretical viewpoint, as even Rahner observed, has no basis in
Revelation. It is therefore all. Yet it is
dominant in most sectors of the Church today. It is an error which has
slithered all the way to the top, and carried in its train either denial or
trivialization of all other dogmas. So complete is its hold that most
Catholic commentary on earlier writers is informed by it, 6 la Brodrick.
Your author cites as a case in point the edition of Ven. Walter
Hilton quoted earlier, which, you may recall, records Hilton’s
opposition to the then novel notion that belief did not matter with
regard to salvation. Translator M. L. Del Masto’s footnotes on p. 350
to that section quoted are most revealing:
1. The position Hilton refutes here is now the orthodox one and goes under the name Baptism of Desire, though in his own time it was, at best, a probable opinion [probable? Your author must beg leave to differ considering the weight of the quoted authorities in the earlier chapters of this book]. I
Catholic Doctrine on Grace
Outside of the Catholic Church there is no sanctifying grace:
Although, predisposing or prevenient graces are given to anyone of those outside the Catholic Church, so that they can turn to God, change their lives and enter the Catholic Church, for without these graces no one would ever convert. However, outside the Catholic Church no sinner can attain sanctifying grace, the state justice wherein one can receive in their soul the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. They can't receive sanctifying grace because they are in a perpetual state of mortal sin, since there is no way for them to receive remission of sin outside of the Church.
DOGMA:
Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, Nov. 18, 1302, ex cathedra: “With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this Church outside of which there is no salvation NOR REMISSION OF SIN…”
The Council of Trent taught dogmatically that either baptism or the desire of it was required for salvation. (The Latin of the decree is aut voto eius. A Feeneyite gentleman of my acquaintance tried to tell me that aut voto eius meant "and the desire of it". That's false; any Latin dictionary proves it quickly.)
Catholic Doctrine on Grace
Outside of the Catholic Church there is no sanctifying grace:
Although, predisposing or prevenient graces are given to anyone of those outside the Catholic Church, so that they can turn to God, change their lives and enter the Catholic Church, for without these graces no one would ever convert. However, outside the Catholic Church no sinner can attain sanctifying grace, the state justice wherein one can receive in their soul the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. They can't receive sanctifying grace because they are in a perpetual state of mortal sin, since there is no way for them to receive remission of sin outside of the Church.
DOGMA:
Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, Nov. 18, 1302, ex cathedra: “With Faith urging us we are forced to believe and to hold the one, holy, Catholic Church and that, apostolic, and we firmly believe and simply confess this Church outside of which there is no salvation NOR REMISSION OF SIN…”
Who is Hilton?
Here's the thing: If the Church had not had to deal with bishops and priests who have worked to weaken the Church from within for decades, you would not see the numbers leaving the Church from then till now.
The lack of nuts-and-bolts catechetical instruction (including scriptural), the loss of reverence in the liturgy, and those who, like Reese, wanted, and got, "flexibility" have left generations of Catholics unsure of what they believe. You may think it's a blessing. I think it's a tragedy.
And regarding your seeming lack of interest in whether he's a liberal: Liberals are only detested in news/activism. On the religion forum they're useful tools to some.
Trent taught that either baptism or the desire of it was required for justification (not salvation as you wrote).There's a big difference.
The problem with baptism of desire, is that it splitting hairs, asking the question: What happens to a person who is pre-justified before receiving the water of baptism, and dies in that condition? St. Augustine called it the vortex of confusion, to think that God could give the grace for conversion of the hardened sinner, then could not keep the person alive long enough to have any passerby pour the water and say the few words.
Anyhow, baptism of desire does not apply here to this thread, since we are talking about baptized Catholics who have left the Church
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