Posted on 04/14/2011 9:21:51 AM PDT by marshmallow
Correct, my friend. Their very identity, indeed the label from Reformational times is Protestant - ones who protest. Protest against what? God and the Church. Are any of these folks any different than, say, Marion, or Nestorius, or even Origen? Well, they're a whole lot less educated, for one thing. Even those of them that profess doctorates in theology - let's compare them with the current Pope, for instance.
The Vatican says that:
From 1946 to 1951 he studied philosophy and theology in the Higher School of Philosophy and Theology of Freising and at the University of Munich. He received his priestly ordination on 29 June 1951. A year later he began teaching at the Higher School of Freising. In 1953 he obtained his doctorate in theology with a thesis entitled "People and House of God in St Augustine’s Doctrine of the Church". Four years later, under the direction of the renowned professor of fundamental theology Gottlieb Söhngen, he qualified for University teaching with a dissertation on: "The Theology of History in St Bonaventure". After lecturing on dogmatic and fundamental theology at the Higher School of Philosophy and Theology in Freising, he went on to teach at Bonn, from 1959 to 1963; at Münster from 1963 to 1966 and at Tübingen from 1966 to 1969. During this last year he held the Chair of dogmatics and history of dogma at the University of Regensburg, where he was also Vice-President of the University.
Doctorate in 1953. Full professorship in 1957. At real universities and not mail order diploma mills. Let us see the educational qualifications of his purported contemporaries on the Protestant side.
Oral Roberts was without education, so he founded his own degree mill, named, humbly, after himself. He awarded doctorates to Creflo Dollar and Kenneth Hagin, for instance. The list of real educational qualifications for televangelists and Protestant preachers is quite thin, once one wades into the swamp.
Regent University, Liberty University, Rochville University, Hamilton University, University of Newcastle, and so on, offer doctorates in theology for a few thousand dollars. Billy Blanks (of Tae Bo fame) has a doctorate in theology from Friendship International Christian University.
Ted Haggard is an Oral Roberts University grad. Jimmy Swaggart, with at most a diploma mill degree himself, founded the World Bible College. John Hagee, on the other hand has bachelor and master degrees in mechanical engineering. Ken Hagin is uneducated, and therefore founded his own college. Ken Copeland is another Oral Roberts alumnus - his qualifications were that he was a recording artist on the Imperial Records label and had a top 40 hit in 1957.
Okay, you see the difference. Friesing, Regensburg, Munich, Bonn, Munster, and Tubingen, versus Oral Roberts and Liberty Universities. The thing is, do any of our separated brethren see it?
You make that statement and then you post this:
“[T]he Lord said to his Mother, ‘Let your heart rejoice and be glad, for every favor and every gift has been given to you from my Father in heaven and from me and from the Holy Spirit. Every soul that calls upon your name shall not be ashamed, but shall find mercy and comfort and support and confidence, both in the world that now is and in that which is to come, in the presence of my Father in the heavens’” (The Falling Asleep of Mary [A.D. 400]).
Is this a serious thread???
Great...An authority...What does the master of time and space mean when it comes to Mary being forever sinless???
No, it wouldn’t. It would cause one to be incredibly humbled and grateful to a gracious God who despite our sin was willing to lovingly take our sin on Himself in spite of our being totally unworthy.
Gee - kinda like those dumb fishermen that Jesus surrounded himself with while eschewing the “learned.” I became a Christian in 1973 at the age of 20, was in the top 1% on the SAT, top 3% on the LSAT and graduated from two of the “best” schools in America. Like Paul, I count it all “dung” for the excellency of knowing Christ. Also, like Paul, I “am glad that I speak in tongues more than you all.” I am surprised that with all of the Catholic doctrine that is out there, almost all Catholics that I run in to are very uninformed when it comes to the elementary teachings concerning Christ as set forth in Hebrews 6:1-2 - namely, repentance from dead works, faith towards God, baptisms, the laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. I will gladly tell you my beliefs. I will never obfuscate. My five children have attended some of the best secular universities, evangelical universities and Catholic universities in the country. They can tell you first hand where Christ was being exalted and where he wasn’t. I don’t care how educated someone is, the words of Jesus to the extremely well educated Jewish ruler, Nicodemus, still apply: “Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Even that doesn't really fix it, though; it just shifts the perceived 'problem' back one generation.
It's not a problem for me in the first place, since I reject the concept of original sin. So yeah, both Mary and Jesus were born without sin, but so was I and so were you.
Lets say a humble saved person commits a mortal sin - what then?
If original sin doesn’t exist, then why did Jesus come at all?
I am an atheist...
Is Reginald Firehammer a real person or is he a creation to make anti-Catholics look stupid?
Perhaps "sowing discord" has become an atheist tactic.
To offer an avenue of salvation for people to escape condemnation for the sins they actually commit. See Ezekiel 18 for discussion of actual sin vs. the false idea of ‘inherited’ sin.
No more prone to pride that someone who thinks their own good works that they do themselves are good enough to earn them a place in heaven.
God tells us that our good works are as filthy rags in His sight and yet Catholics by the score depend on them to please God.
That seems like a pretty good bit of pride to think that their own good works are good enough to be exempt from God's judgment on them.
It's no more a matter of being subject to pride than someone who presents others a laundry list of do's and don't's and ceremonies and sacraments which they've performed to show how holy or righteous or devout they are.
And in answer to your question. Possibly, but that would be wrong for them to think that way. However, it does not change what God's Word says about the security of the believer, and someone trusting God to do what He says is not a matter of pride.
No one is exempt from pride. There are many things that can cause people to be proud but that doesn't reflect on the thing itself, but the person involved. Just because some may display pride and arrogance about their security doesn't change the fact of it. It just means they're wrong.
Is that because you are stuck on works based salvation?
>>Lets say a humble saved person commits a mortal sin - what then?<<
Again, works based? You see, when Jesus paid the price it was paid in total. We are not yet in our perfected bodies.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
What then? We have been forgiven. That is not to say that we do not strive to refrain from sin but we do understand that we are still in our carnal body. Once again, a reason for total humility understanding it is not we who earn our salvation in any way.
Eph 2:8-9 pretty much says it all. We have nothing to boast about because it isn’t of anything we have done, so why would anyone be “smug”?
Eph 2
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Well, if Mary’s blood had to be clean and pure so Jesus blood was clean and pure, how did Mary be born of a sinful mother? Would not Mary’s mother’s blood had to have been pure and clean so that Mary’s would have been, and so on back?
Now if God could do that kind of miracle for Mary so that she was born of a sinful mother sinless herself (presuming that to be the case), then why couldn’t God have done the same thing for Jesus that Catholics claim He did for Mary?
Do you understand where the sin nature comes from anyway?
Here is where non Catholics chide Catholics for saying “all” doesn’t mean “all”. Well, either the statements from Romans you posted are indeed a form if hyperbole, or else you and all the others who simply (seemingly) LOVE to go to those verses are claiming not only do people who are severely mentally retarded commit sin, but Jesus Christ Himself was a sinner.
Is the Bible the word of God???
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
Of course Jesus did not sin...But the scriptures say that ALL (others) have sinned...The fact that your religion says otherwise is meaningless to me and those who believe God...
The “mortal sin” that the “saved person” commits was “already” paid for by the Alpha and Omega.
And he will be forgiven it if he repents.
Can you please show us from Scripture the distinction between mortal and venial sin?
My understanding of the Catholic faith is that the bible is the word of God only as interpreted through the Priesthood/RCC.
LeGrande is still with us......
I’m sure your point is that all sin is abhorrent to God, and excludes the sinner from His eternal presence,
correct?
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