Posted on 04/12/2011 7:55:27 AM PDT by bkaycee
Looks like an interesting read.
Rn makes some good points in 1902.
The extent of the problem seems to indicate that there is a common form of rationalization going on with these predators.
metmom makes the good point that the parishoners apathy towards it gives these predators the liberty to proceed with their perversions.
I found the rationalization of the priest from Belgium to show that they have rationalized their evil behavior as a good.
One would think that those involved in this Church, if they were serious about promoting the good instead of the sanctimony proffered, would get down to the root of the problem.
No, I didn’t say your Church was a collective?
The Catholic church treats sex as if it’s something dirty and corrupt.
God created sex and told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply.
But the Catholic church demands that it’s priests and nuns be celibate, that Mary be ever virgin, and with that the implication that to be sinless, she needed to be ever virgin, as if sex with her husband would have been sin, and that the RCC calls sex between a husband and wife as *carnal* relations, as if sex is something dirty and wrong.
It takes something God created and blessed and twisted it and put unnatural and unscriptural demands on people over it.
WELL PUT
That's assuming they don't like the "root of the problem."
After all the pederasty scandals and all the denials and deflections and idiotic defenses of satanic evil perpetrated on their own children, it becomes pretty clear that things are the way they are in Rome because Rome LIKES it this way.
This isn't rocket science. It's criminal abuse of minors by rapist priests who are being protected by Rome at all costs.
For centuries.
| The OPC (OrthodoPresbyterian C) and PCA (Presbyterian C in America) attack on America and Christianity | ||||||||||||||
|
Let us take the Nicene Creed and compare with the OPC's beliefs:We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all that is, seen and unseen.
So far, the OPC is on track.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Well, not really; they think of Jesus as a lesser God than the Father. The OPC says that:
Jesus is God's doorway through the wall. God appointed his Son to be the substitute for those whom he would save. Jesus loved the Father with every fiber of his being. He obeyed the Father's holy will completely. He died on Calvary's cross as the atoning sacrifice, bearing all the sins of his people. He rose again from the dead and was exalted to the place of glory at the Father's side.
For the OPC, Jesus is a lesser or messenger god to God the Father, much like Mercury was the messenger of Jupiter in the Roman Pantheon of gods. This is not Christian.
As well, The OPC says that:
Christ is, in reality, the one true worshiper.[5] Our worship is a participation in his. Further, our worship in Christ is by the Holy Spirit.
Here, the OPC says that Christ worships God the Father, and the Holy Spirit worships Christ. Not Trinitarian, but polytheist.
Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary,
Here, they more or less agree with Christianity.
and became man.
Here, they depart from Christianity inasmuch as Christianity believes that Jesus is fully God and fully man at the same time.
"The Son of Man"
Jesus affirms that he is "the Son of Man." This was his favorite self-designation. The Gospels mention his calling himself the Son of Man some eighty times. William White, Jr., explains that this title reflects Daniel 7:13, where the "Son of Man" is one to whom is given universal and eternal authority, glory, and sovereign dominion. He is one from among men to whom is given divine prerogatives. Since only God can receive such prerogatives, the Son of Man is a God-man (Daniel 10:16). Thus, the Son of Man, Jesus, descended from heaven (John 3:13) and was dependent on God, as He had nowhere to lay His head (Matt. 8:20). He exercises an authoritative and redemptive mission (John 3:14). He is the universal Lord (Matt. 28:18; cf. Dan. 7:13-14) and has total responsibility and authority for judging the world (Matt. 13:41-42; 19:28). (Theological and Grammatical Phrasebook of the Bible, p. 102 [Moody Press, 1984]. Cf. Geerhardus Vos, The Self-Disclosure of Jesus [Eerdmans, 1954].)
So when Jesus calls himself the Son of Man, he does much more than identify himself as having a human nature. He reveals himself as God incarnated as the Last Adam, the true Man, the Man of God's right hand, the Messiah, the King, the Savior, Lord, and Judge! Compare Daniel 7:9-14 and Revelation 1:12-18. It's an amazing claim.
It sure is. It affirms that the OPC believes that Jesus is a lesser God - is totally dependent upon God and therefore is not the God of Christianity, but a messenger or harbinger, much like John the Baptist was for Jesus.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
Okay in this section.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
Here we come to a major parting of the ways between the OPC and Christianity. The OPC says that:
The resurrection of the dead in general, therefore, is primarily a judicial act of God."[13] Stated simply, the resurrection is not the penultimate event prior to the final judgment; the resurrection is the final judgment.
This little piece of paganism is the source for so many of the nonChristian pronouncements of OPC adherents. Can you imagine a greater departure from the Gospel message of Jesus? Resurrection is a replacement for Judgement and if you are resurrected, you will not go to hell!!!! Now, what about those going to hell? More on that later...
and his kingdom will have no end.
They do agree that Jesus will reign forever.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
See above. The OPC believes that Jesus worships God the Father and the Holy Spirit worships Jesus.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
The OPC really likes its Prophets - if it weren't for Paul, their theology would consist of Isaiah with a splash of Jeremiah.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
Absolutely not. "Catholic" is redefined as Calvinist, and the Apostles are irrelevant since they are all long dead.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
The OPC touches on it in several articles on their site, blathering on, and talking around the point, rather than to it, but the final conclusion is that they do not believe that baptism is in any way connected with the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
There are several articles on the OPC website which affirm the resurrection of the dead, and then speak as if it weren't there or it didn't matter. Of course, it might just be the writers' confusion over just who is going to be resurrected (prejudged to salvation) and who isn't (see above). After all if the Calvinists believe that the act of resurrection is a substitute for the Judgement of God, then nobody in hell gets Judged in the Calvinist universe, right? And nowhere in Christianity does it state anything about the resurrection of those Judged to Heaven versus the non resurrection of those Judged to hell. In Calvinism, those prejudged to hell do not get resurrected at all. Cronos, my friend, you are absolutely spot on in that the OPC on its own website brags about its nonChristian beliefs. And its followers would have us believe that it is Christian. Based on what?
For a Christian to join the OPC, he must reject all of God's teachings and stop being a follower of Christ and become a follower of Calvin.
For Calvin teaches that one does not need to believe in Christ but one is part of an elite brahmin caste.
To become a member of the OrthodoPresbyterian Cult, one must throw out scripture and adopt the 14-page excerpted version of scripture with the colored pictures that the OPC believes in.
To become a member of the Orthodo PresbyterianCult, one must Acording to the OPC OrthoPresbyterianC: "Christians should not celebrate the Seder or other Jewish festivals. "
The followers of Machen, the OPC, disregard scripture where it calls men to repent, have faith, convert, and persevere. Instead they insist on some kind of non-scriptural preservation which is not only non-scriptural but also disagrees with the beliefs of their hero, St. Augustine who believed in perseverance of the saints, not preservation. Augustine did not believe in Calvin's understanding of the "perseverance of the saints,"
the OPC's theory that man can never lose his salvation, no matter what he does, so when they read 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and Galatians 5:19-21 the OPC believes that if anyone commits any such sin, there is no repentence for the followers of Calvin. Their deity will not take repentence, so the followers of Calvin will say that the person never was Christian at all!
To answer, they twist their weasel-words as
First between true and false conversion. The Bible recognizes that not everyone who says he believes in Christ really doesVoilą! (by the way, that means "see there" in French) -- the followers of Calvin-Machen use their rubber dictionaries to say "Oh, they never were Christian in the first place!"
Salvation of Infants Who DieThe OPC believes that God pre-damns infants to eternal hell. This isn't the Christian God of Love.
The Confession entertains the idea that at least some infants who die in infancy and some others "who are incapable of being outwardly called" are among the elect.
However, the Confession does not say that all such infants, etc., are saved.
| 12 “Therefore, son of man, say to your people, ‘If someone who is righteous disobeys, that person’s former righteousness will count for nothing. And if someone who is wicked repents, that person’s former wickedness will not bring condemnation. The righteous person who sins will not be allowed to live even though they were formerly righteous.’ 13 If I tell a righteous person that they will surely live, but then they trust in their righteousness and do evil, none of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered; they will die for the evil they have done. 14 And if I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ but they then turn away from their sin and do what is just and right— 15 if they give back what they took in pledge for a loan, return what they have stolen, follow the decrees that give life, and do no evil—that person will surely live; they will not die. 16 None of the sins that person has committed will be remembered against them. They have done what is just and right; they will surely live. |
| John 4:42 describes Christ as "the Savior of the world," 1 John 2:2 Christ "is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." 1 Timothy 4:10 God is "the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." |
Thanks for the link. It’s good to see those former catholics saw the light, discovered the Truth for themselves and left. I was touched by the nuns and priest that left since I have family members who did the same. Everything we’ve been saying all along they addressed. Part 4 still needs to be viewed. I have a few in mind that may benefit from this link, so thanks, again.
hmmm... so does PNSM's group only love god and their manly neighbours? No women?
Does your group have it's weekly song as Y.M.C.A?
Notwithstanding -- you are correct, once they try out crazy sects, they just go to baser and baser and more disgusting sects. It's just bad and evil sects that they join. Though even the term sect can be an exaggeration as these guys argue about who gets jam and who gets marmalade and form their own group based on that.
Isn’t it a fact that your own cult, the OPC has a higher pederast rate among it’s pastors? greater than 2% and closer to 10%? What does your cult do about the vast numbers of pederasts in it?
you can ask him do you believe in
Does your group believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
and they don't agree on the fundamentals (Trinity or Unitarian, True Presence or not, Double predestination or not, Miracles happen today or not,)either!
They can't agree on any of the points above, and will say THEIR version, THEIR interpretation is correct as opposed to others. This breaks down to utter chaos and sects of one (as in pnms's case) -- as Notwithstanding would say they belong to self-sects!
Which of these is true? All three can't be at the same time true as they are contradictory
Jesus would have explained what He meant to His disciples and Nicodemus who would have explained it down to THEIR disciples and so on and so forth ("ok, Druselius, now I was taught by Antonicus who was taught by Marius who was taught by Ignatius who was taught by Polycarp who was taught by John the Apostle who was taught by Jesus that this passage here means.....").
There is no doubt that Christ taught His disciples, scripture even points out that He taught them post His resurrection, yet those points are not in scripture, so what are they? Maybe a detailed set of what the words given earlier really meant? Most likely because the Apostles and the ones following them were always clear to say that they learnt from so-and-so Apostle
Paul made it clear when he says not to say "I am of Apollo, I am of Paul but of Christ" that the focus should be on the ultimate teacher of the teachers, not that he is against people sticking to the rule of what was taught by their teachers. In fact he urges people to stick to what they were taught and to hand that down to others. That is the basic definition of Holy Tradition -- the teachings from the Ultimate Teacher through a succession of teachers, all lesser -- it doesn't matter about the character of the intervening teachers, what matters is the Truth is pure and it is pure because it comes from the Ultimate Teacher who is pure.
When X posts that he participates in a religious community but does not disclose that group’s affiliation or denomination or non-denominational status,well put
And then X posts insults and smears aimed at the doctrine and beliefs of Y’s declared group,
It seems quite sensible and prudent for Y to refer to “your sect” when criticizing (in like manner) the doctrine and beliefs found in X’s posts.
Marbren -- then your group would be a sect of one, with it's own beliefs and non-beliefs.
What is your interpretation of some of the dicey stuff like the Trinity, the divinity of Jesus Christ, the humanity of Jesus Christ, the True Presence, Baptism for the Remission of Sins (note that each of the different non-orthodoxy groups have their own intrepretation)?
Let's just take the point of John 3:5 where Jesus tells Nicodemus that he must be "born of the water and of the spirit" -- does that mean:
Which of these is true? All three can't be at the same time true as they are contradictory
Which one do you hold to?
It would be good for more folks to get easily offended by the antics of your group, the anti-Christian OPC. The OPC pretends to be Christian while attacking all us Christians
Why doesn't your group, the OPC stop the pretence? One of the OPC, Hank Kerchief admitted that he was a communist and still kept posting his attempts to foment intra-Christian fights
It's surprising that the rest of the OPC group hasn't had the guts to admit their group's communist nature yet.
That goes in the saved response list. It's excellent, Notwithstanding.Eckelsberg,
It’s pretty clear
to anyone reading this thread
that when the Church
criticizes your sect,
those criticisms decry
your sect’s perversions and
your sect’s practices
and beliefs
that are anti-Scriptural,whereas the “strong language”
you seem to employ is simply name-calling.There’s never ever ever ever ever a core to your argument.
No discussion of
your sect’s faith,
your sect’s practices,
your sect’s beliefs,
your sect’s perspectives,
your sect’s ideology,
your sect’s theology,
etc.There’s hardly even a mention of your sect.
Are you afraid of your sect’s reputation?
Your sect’s history?
Your sect’s incoherence?
Most people are delighted
to share with others
the community that helps
them to experience and know true faith in God.But with you, all we get is blather.
The fact is that Dr. Eck's group, the OPC doesn't admit to it's perversions and non-Christian beliefs because that would turn too many of it's "allies" (or as it calls, "muh fools") to turn away from it.
This false, evil group has already split twice since it's founding by it's chief prophet Machen (in the 1930s) and is heading for its final and complete split to nothingness.
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