Posted on 03/19/2011 10:57:34 PM PDT by dangus
"My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior." -- Luke 1:47
It is undeniable, that "Savior" in this sense alludes to being saved from sin. So the question is: If Mary had never sinned, or was never guilty of original sin, as the Catholic Church states, why would she need a Savior?
As in English, in Greek word for "Savior" ("soter") comes from the word for "safe" ("sozo"). In modern English, the connection between "safe" and "heal" is largely lost, but "salvation" retains the root, "salv," from "salve," meaning "heal" or "a healing ointment." Thus, the notion of a "savior" being one who restores health, or undoes harm is not a completely incorrect notion. But neither should it overshadow the fundamental meaning that a "savior" is one who prevents harm, as much as one who restores one from harm.
Therefore, it should hardly be surprising that one who has been prevented from original sin should rejoice in her "savior" from original sin.
In fact, the term "savior" in Greek has a connotation of a god who preserves his people. As explained in the Protestant lexicon, Strong's Concordance,:
The name was given by the ancients to deities, esp. tutelary deities, to princes, kings, and in general to men who had conferred signal benefits upon their country, and in more degenerate days by the way of flattery to personages of influence.(Wigram) The word soter was a common Greek epithet for the gods (e.g., Zeus, Apollo, and Hermes), active personalities in world affairs (e.g., Epicurus) and rulers (e.g., Ptolemy Philopator, and later Roman Emporers). (cf. LSJ and BDAG)God certainly was Mary's Lord and Protector, who kept her safe from sin. That does not mean she sinned.
But doesn't Paul state that "all have sinned?" Is Paul wrong?
Not in the least. As Protestant theologian Charles Spurgeon explains (in an alternate context) the meaning of "all," (in Greek, "pas"):
"... 'The whole world is gone after him.' Did all the world go after Christ? 'Then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan.' Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem baptized in Jordan? 'Ye are of God, little children', and 'the whole world lieth in the wicked one.' Does 'the whole world' there mean everybody? If so, how was it, then, that there were some who were 'of God?' The words 'world' and 'all' are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture; and it is very rarely that 'all' means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts—some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted his redemption to either Jew or Gentile." (Charles H. Spurgeon, Particular Redemption, A Sermon, 28 Feb 1858).In context, what Paul is saying is that Jews (in general) and Greeks (in general), and every other people (in general) have sinned. To establish that Jews are no better than any other people, he quotes the prophet Isaiah,
What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.In this passage, the prophet is describing the Jews around him, and uses the phrase, "There is no-one righteous, not one." It's been argued that the prophet is describing in a prophetic sense not just the Jews around him, but the universal condition of man, as a result of original sin. It might make sense to say that all we who have committed original sin are not righteous in a sense, since our righteousness is imputed righteousness, earned not by our own effort, but by Christ's sacrifice on our behalf.
As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."
"Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit." "The poison of vipers is on their lips."
"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."
"Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery mark their ways and the way of peace they do not know.
" "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
But that same passage asserts that not one has done anything good at all, that they know not the way of peace, and there is no fear of God among anyone. Even if our righteousness is merely imputed, and our ability to do good relies entirely on Christ acting through us, regenerated Christians do good, know the way of peace and fear God. As such, we know that Paul is using that passage only to establish that Jews need Christ as much as Gentiles, for they have been as wicked as Gentiles, he is not using that passage to describe saved Christians.
But the Blessed Virgin Mary lived (in part) before the Holy Sacrifice, the Resurrection and the Descent of the Holy Spirit? How can she have been saved from sin?
The bible explicitly states that salvation occurred anticipating these events. For the prophet Simeon stated upon seeing the infant Jesus, "Mine eyes have seen thy salvation." How could this be? Whose salvation has he witnessed?
Mary's.
Catholic ping?
I cannot find recorded anywhere in the WHOLE of the Bible that Mary never sinned. Christ is the only one who walked this earth in a flesh body that never sinned. I really do not understand the obsession on the holiness of a flesh being that served God and us by being the vessel that fulfilled the promise all those many years earlier. A virgin would conceive and .......
Sometimes I argue with people that disagree with me and they consider evidence reasonably. Heck, sometimes they even convince me theirs is the more correct position. But it frustrates me when the body of evidence is very clear on an issue, but the “other side” simply refuses to see it. Like liberals, they will focus on the tiniest tidbit of evidence that supports their side while ignoring mountains of evidence that supports its, well, lunacy.
This is the situation with the “Mary was perfect” or “Mary was ever-virgin” crowd. Someone told them what to believe and that settles it.
Wow! You are getting very deep. Interesting view.
http://endtimerevelations.org/downloads/RaptureTrib-Canela.pdf
Visions of the Rapture, Tribulation, the Holy City, & the Thrones of GOD and satan.
The testimony of an 8 year old girl who encountered Jesus Christ.
(Jannet Balderas Canel
. . .
It was so beautiful; the presence of the Lord could be felt there, such glory and majesty! The Lord said, “Servant, come here because I will show you other things.” We arrive at a place with many beautiful doors, so many beautiful doors. I said, “Lord what’s behind those doors?” He said,
3 “Behind these doors are My disciples, behind these doors are My apostles, behind these doors are all those who once walked over the Earth praising and glorifying My Name.” -
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . MARY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
We began to ride again and arrive at a door that was half-opened, and the Lord said,
“Servant come here, come here because behind this door is Mary. Get close and hear what she is saying, so you can go and tell My people, so you can tell the people how Mary is suffering.”
I got closer and saw a young lady, such a beautiful young lady, so beautiful, her face was so pretty. She was looking through a very tiny window. She was kneeling down and looking to the face of the Earth, crying with tremendous pain.
She said, “Why are you worshiping me? Why, if I do not have any power! Why are you worshiping me? I do not do anything! Do not worship me! Do not bow before me! For I cannot save you! The only one that can save, the only one that can redeem you is Jesus, who died for all mankind!
Many people say that I have power, that I can perform miracles, but that is a lie! I do not do anything! Almighty God was satisfied with me and He used my womb so that Jesus could be born and save everyone, but I don’t have any power.
I cannot do anything! Do not bow before me! Do not worship me! For I am not worthy of worship. The only one that is worthy, the only one that you bow before and adore is Jesus! He is the only one that heals and saves!”
I could see how that young lady was in such tremendous pain, full of anguish and crying. She said, “No! No! Do not worship me! Why do you bow before me? I don’t do anything!”
You see dear brothers, it was a tremendous thing to look at this young lady, how she was crying with such pain and sadness.
Even if you insist on rejecting out of hand all evidence but your version of the bible because of your belief in “sola scripture”, the least you could do is appreciate that not everyone adheres to that doctrine.
Besides, the purpose of this article isn’t to prove that Mary did not sin, but merely to refute arguments that she did.
“I cannot find recorded anywhere in the WHOLE of the Bible that Mary never sinned.”
Oh? I cannot find recorded anywhere in the WHOLE of the Bible that Mary ever sinned.
>> I really do not understand the obsession on the holiness of a flesh being that served God and us by being the vessel that fulfilled the promise all those many years earlier. <<
I find it hilarious that I can turn on the radio and hear eighteen different Protestant preachers railing against Marian doctrines and five thousand posts about “Mariology” on Free Republic yet when a Catholic posts a defense of their beliefs, it’s the Catholics who have the “obsession.”
Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!!! AMEN!! AMEN!! AMEN!!
So it is!!! It will always be!!!!
At least for this Christian.
Thats the whole truth and nothing but the truth!! So help me God!! AMEN!!!
Quix, Wow. Your making theological arguments based on the dreams of an eight-year-old girl, reflecting her parents strident beliefs.
Now, would you care to explain to Just My Thoughts your “obsession?” (I wouldn’t use the word, “obsession,” but Just My Thoughts thinks that paying attention to Mary is an obsession.
By the way, I really pity you if you actually believe that Mary could be weeping in Heaven not for our own sorrows, but because she is saddened by people obeying her own command, “all people shall call me blessed.” Heaven is a place of eternal joy, and if there’s any sorrow to be had, it’s for compassion on us. Poor Janet, being raised by such monsters.
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Christ Jesus died on the cross once for all time [Hebrews 10:12] for ALL men and women; for ALL have SINNED and fall short of the Glory of God [Romans 3:23]…that includes Mary...As it is written, there is NONE righteous, NO, NOT ONE…that is why Mary said in Luke 1:47: And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savoiur! If Mary was sinless, then she was equal with Jesus Christ, who had NO SIN. Christ is the only one to have no sin: and Mary was neither equal with God nor is she sinless as a human being. The Scriptures bear out in many places that men/women are ALL sinners, that is why God sent His Son to die once for all the sins of both man/woman. Mary acknowledged her Saviour; it is high time that Rome acknowledges that Mary was correct: that she needed a Saviour just like everyone else - that is Biblical - and no amount of man’s traditions will trump God Word: which is perfectly accurate regarding salvation for all sinners.
Wow, really? I’ve gotten very shy about “signs,” since the desirous soul can read many things out of what may really be coincidences, but that’s just downright odd. What a blessing. Peace be to you!
I have a question.... What could any Christian possibly do that would make them so ashamed they would pray for mountains to fall upon them?
Come to think of it the Bible doesn’t focus very much on Mary at all.
You made the exact arguments I just refuted, with no response to my refutation. As many years as I’ve been a Freeper, sometimes I’m just still amazed by people.
That would make her a 'deity', to have never sinned, and Christ said the greatest commandment was to love the Father, not other flesh mortal fellow servants. I can't find any explicit words that said Enoch sinned either, or even for that matter Able.
Mary the mother of Jesus was described by God as “highly favored” (Luke 1:28). The phrase “highly favored” comes from a single Greek word, which essentially means “much grace.” Mary received God’s grace.
Grace is “unmerited favor,” meaning that something we receive despite the fact that we do not deserve it. Mary needed grace from God just as the rest of us do. Mary herself understood this fact, as she declared in Luke 1:47, “. . . and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior. .
Well guess the defense cannot withstand the Godly offense.
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