Posted on 03/19/2011 9:47:13 PM PDT by delacoert
First off, some information, what is the Book of Abraham? Well the book was derived from a set of Egyptian papyri purchased by the Joseph Smith in 1835 from a traveling mummy show. Although no formal training in Egyptology, Joseph Smith created a translation of part of the papyri, and the work was published called the The Book of Abraham. Today it remains a component of the Mormon quad--their canon of scripture. [The text is published as part of the Pearl of Great Price, one of the four canonical scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.]
Why is this important? Well firstly, Joseph Smith, the prophet, translated the papyri. Secondly, the book is part of the Mormon canon. Thirdly, the Book of Abraham provides justification for important Mormon doctrines, including the exaltation of man, plurality of gods, priesthood, and pre-mortal existence not found in any of the other canonized scriptures of the LDS.
So you're probably asking big deal, he translated some scrolls. Well not exactly. What if we had the exact same papyri that Joseph Smith used for his translation? Would the results be the same? Well get this, in 1966 some of the papyrus scrolls were found in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. Based on this rediscovered source material of the Book of Abraham, qualified Egyptologists can once again complete a translation. What they found is startling.
Using illustrations and the original text of the Book of Abraham it was found thedocuments are in fact funerary texts that describe events in the afterlife of deceased Egyptians that is consistent with other historical and archaeological evidence. Today we can prove that Joseph Smith incorrectly translated the papyrus.
Independent scholars, Egyptologists, are in agreement about the nature of the documents. Only church sanctioned Mormon Universities still try to claim the translation is still correct. Mormon scholars currently do not discuss the translation since it's not open to debate, the documents are clearly funerary in origin.
Why is this a death blow to Mormonism? As stated above, Joseph Smith is a prophet to the LDS church, but he states that the Book of Abraham is:
A Translation of some Ancient Records that have fallen into our hands, from the Catacombs of Egypt, purporting to be the writings of Abraham, while he was in Egypt.[1]
After closer examination, Smith also declared,
... with W. W. Phelps and Oliver Cowdery as scribes, I commenced the translation of some of the characters or hieroglyphics, and much to our joy found that one of the rolls contained the writings of Abraham, another the writings of Joseph of Egypt, etc. -- a more full account of which will appear in its place, as I proceed to examine or unfold them.[2]
Joseph claimed that he received divine inspiration in having discovered and translated an existing ancient work. Joseph claimed to be the prophet, seer, and revelator who could decipher it. Joseph Smith the prophet was wrong.
How can a prophet be wrong yet people still trust his other works? Well it doesn't stop there. For each of the facsimiles, Joseph Smith offered a detailed explanation or interpretation of various elements on the papyrus and fragments. Here is one of those facsimiles (number 3).
Smith 'translated' this image as such: a representation of Abraham sitting on the Pharaoh's throne teaching the principles of astronomy to the Egyptian court. The figure behind "Abraham in Egypt" is "King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head." The figure before "Abraham" is "Prince of Pharaoh, King of Egypt". The dark character is "Olimlah, a slave belonging to the prince" and in between is "Shulem, one of the kings principal waiters".
What do independent Egyptologists say? This is merely the judgment of the dead before the occupied throne of the Egyptian god, Osiris.[17] The picture of Osiris shows his typical headdress or crown and his arms are placed in a typical position in which he holds a sceptre and a flail. In front of Osiris, but with her face turned away, is Ma'at, the Egyptian goddess of justice, truth and order wearing her traditional feather on her head.
Unfortunately for Joseph Smith both the recovered papyri and the facsimiles published with the Book of Abraham bear no direct connection, either historical or textual, to Abraham. Abraham's name does not appear anywhere in the papyri or the facsimiles.
I've read some of the Mormon positions/rebuttals on the subject and let me say they are aren't well articulated and contain very poor scholarship. The Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies (FARMS), is trying in vain to respond to the material but again the scholarship is less than stellar.
How should we approach these conclusions? The theological implications are great, if you can't trust the Book of Abraham then plurality of gods, pre-mortal existence, and more, have zero validity in the LDS faith. Fact of the matter is you can't reason your way to convince anybody out of their particular faith even if there is damning evidence to discredit their most sacred prophet.
Many Mormons value their faith, value their experiences, and as such will not 'convert' as a result of a scientific debunking of one of their scriptures. In the very least I hope it makes everyone dig a little deeper when learning about their own faith.
1. See History of the Church, vol. 2, pp. 235, 236, 348-3512. History of the Church, Vol. 2, Ch. 17, p. 236. July 1835
17. See for example The Judgment of the Dead. Retrieved on 2006-08-07.
25. Richard A. Parker, "The Joseph Smith Papyri: A Preliminary Report", Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Summer 1968, p. 98.
32. Stephen E. Thompson, "Egyptology and the Book of Abraham", Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 28/1 (Spring 1995): 148-152. See also the translations in the Analysis of the Joseph Smith papyri section of this article.
33. The Joseph Smith Hypocephalus ... Twenty Years Later. Retrieved on 2006-08-07. In this article, Michael D. Rhodes examines facsimile 2, the hypocephalus, and notes that the four sons of Horus (figure 6) plausibly fits with Joseph Smith's explanation that the figure "represents this earth in its four quarters".
Many sources from Wikipedia
What answers? Read your links and found them to be lacking in every way.
Read your links and found them to be lacking in every way.
You need to read with pure intent and be willing to truly act upon the answers you will receive. Simply reading the words with a negative predisposition won’t be very helpful.
Have a great night!
Riiiight, read lies and blasphemies ‘with pure intent’ and you will like the taste and swallow the poison. How very demonic a suggestion was made to you. Not surprising based upon the source!
Thanks for the YouTube link BlueMoose. I only had to go less than a minute into it before the Mormon apologist states another falsehood taught by the LDS church. He states that “anti Mormon” (always the victim mentality)don’t understand the pre existance of souls. It’s not that we don’t understand it. We don’t BELIEVE it. This is yet one more example of non traditional beliefs held by Mormons. Not anti Mormon at all. Simply stating the differences, and why the traditional Christian Church does not consider LDS to be Christian.
Then you should study the BIBLE just a wee bit more.
PD, just which link has the instructions on the rituals to be performed in the LDS Templs?
I'm sure that LURKERS would like to be able to read them for themselves; instead of being told the truth from us Flying Inmen.
The following is from an authentic PD link:
http://lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/14?lang=eng
First, you must know where MORMONism comes from...
Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (, p.270).Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (, p. 119).Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" ( 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" ( 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" ( 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" ( 10:230).Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (, p. 255).Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (, 18:172).President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (, 10:127).James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (, p.182).President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (, vol. 3, p.282).More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (, p.316).President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (, vol. 2, p.196).
It gives them energy.
They LOVE to play 'the victim'!
I'll bet he(?) won't!
http://www.manifestation.com/neurotoys/eliza.php3
Psalm 139
“I realize you dont accept such evidence;”
“You realize nothing.”
Then why ask for proof when its already there?
If you accepted such evidence, you wouldn’t ask such an asinine question.
Now I realize you’re just being argumentative.
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