Posted on 02/14/2011 11:02:10 AM PST by Paragon Defender
16 And I, Nephi, did build a temple; and I did construct it after the manner of the temple of Solomon save it were not built of so many precious things; for they were not to be found upon the land, wherefore, it could not be built like unto Solomon’s temple. But the manner of the construction was like unto the temple of Solomon; and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine.
1 Kgs. 5:17
And the king commanded, and they brought great stones, costly stones, and hewed stones, to lay the foundation of the house.
He did not say that he didn't use wood, iron, copper, brass, steel, gold, silver, and ores, but that some of the same stones use in Solomon's temple were no available
Your assuming, of course, that by precious things he is referring to the gold and silver he just mentioned. But how do you know that there weren’t some other ingredients he considered more precious that were included in Solomon’s temple, but not the one he is describing.
I believe in Jesus Christ and I sincerely love Him. But i think your belief system is really sad. It makes Him sound almost as intolerant as the Muslim’s allah.
“I believe in Jesus Christ and I sincerely love Him. But i think your belief system is really sad. It makes Him sound almost as intolerant as the Muslim’s allah.”
How sad that you’d compare me to the muslim insanity. All I rely on are Jesus’s words . . . you rely on the ramblings of an apostate who couldn’t even come up with a cogent Central American history and new planets . . .
Intolerance has nothing to do with salvation. You’re either with Jesus’s words or you’re on you way to hell. I didn’t make that up . . . God did. Tell God that He’s intolerant. Or you can tell Joseph Smith and Jesus (as you believe) when they sit side by side to determine your fate. Which one is it? There’s still time to repent and relent.
People condemn themselves for not accepting the Gospel eagles - this is inclusive of mormons.
I’m LDS. I admit, there are things that my faith professes that I have doubts about it. But that is true with every other church I researched. There is stuff in every religion that seems a bit hard to believe.
Lets take a foundational look eagles - in the news - egyptian artifacts were looted. Egypt is clearly referred to in the Bible, as are many other cities, nations and cultures - mapped and identified with physical artifacts far older than the bom period.
Can you tell me where the bom lands are eagles? Ash, an apolgist who writes for FAIR has posted that there are dozens of theories, but no one can definitively place their finger on a map with proof of a nephite city, person or anything. What do you call a book that writes about events that never occured? Did smith REALLY translate gold plates?
Call me a heretic, but the God I love is merciful enough to look the past the externals and judge the heart.
Then your position as a mormon is indeed fragile eagles. Mormon scriptures tell me that:
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 1:31-32: “For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance; Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven.”
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 82:7: “And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.”
Is this the judgement of the heart you are looking for eagles? Do you meet the standard required by mormon doctrines?
ALMA 11:37: “And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.”
I have to shrug eagles and wonder what your concept of the God you love is. These are supposedly statements from this God. If mormonism cannot promise you forgiveness, what does it have to offer?
Can the God of mormonism look past the externals?
Why is it only temple-married mormons have the promise of godhood? Why do you have to prove your worthiness in mormonism on the basis of works to obtain the grace of God (you must be free of ALL ungodliness before his grace is sufficient - MORONI 10:32).
There is a way that God has created in His mercy to look past those externals and judge the heart - but that grace is not found in the teachings of mormonism eagles, but in the true Gospel of Christ -
Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace are ye saved through faith and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
This is just the beginning of the dramatic change from mormonism eagles. Read the Bible and pray to KNOW the truth presented there and to really KNOW Jesus, seek Jesus and understand Jesus. Accept Jesus as your personal Savior and begin an epic journey - the way that God provided through His mercy to look past the externals and to your heart.
Putting aside for the moment regarding the ‘precious things’ found and not found; just move to the part about ‘steel’. Steel was not invented until AD1100 or thereabouts. It was called Damascus steel at the time. This is way out of date for Nephi using the term ‘steel’ in the Book of Mormon. But you still have to go back to ‘yes there were precious things’ to ‘they were not found’ regardless of the fact whether or not they were used. There’s a contradiction there that you can’t answer. Nephi is saying the manner of construction was like unto the temple of Solomon and you’re saying that it wasn’t.
You are making an excuse via an arguement of silence. For starters, since it was built after Solomon's temple (which according to the nephi legend he was familar with) it would have contained precious metals - in fact they were used for key parts of the temple.
Read it again - these items were used for other buildings? And if the list of things that were in abundance just one verse before are not precious, just what "precious" things were lacking in the construction of this temple eagles?
OK, so what ‘precious’ items were left out of the temple BM?
Blue,
You must be smoking crack, if by your link you meant to imply that the small settlement in the article remotely fits the description of the book of mormonites. It isn’t even remotely close FRiend.
Still, I can understand on a human level why you would grasp at ANYTHING that sounds remotely like it might support the wild claims in the bom.
I suggest you go back to your book and read the descriptions and see the failure to connect. If I point it out, it will likely be discounted. Better you should read both and compare.
Have they found Jewish DNA at the site of your link...?
ampu
“Mormonism....all hat, no Curelom”
As dawn breaks over mesoAmerica, the trumpeting screams of the hairy curelom echo across the surrounding cites.
Iron-workers interrupt their production of vast metal works, cities that stretched from sea to shining sea hush in anticipation of another wonderful day in mormon-land.
Just last week, the mormon Jesus had visited to let native Americans know they were really Jews! What a wonderful time to be alive!!!
Flash forward.
America today: If a native American Curelom was watching, he would have a tear in his eye...
All original cities, vanished, leaving nothing behind - not even a cigar butt!
Not even a single foundation of a single iron-worker’s furnace remains.
Not even a single metal work produced here.
And, as it turns out, Cureloms didn’t have bones. Apparently, Cureloms had the structure of jellyfish and today, no evidence remains of their once proud reign!
Only the savage cry of the curelom remains in the brains of mormons who “just believe”, despite any physical evidence.
Only the ring of the ancient iron-workers hammer echos in the minds of mormons who “just believe”, despite the amazing disappearance of millions of metal works.
Only the cheerful laughter remains in the minds of mormons, who insist millions of people lived in cities across America - because Joseph Smith said so!
As it turns out, they too, had the structure of jellyfish.
No bones.
No metalworks.
No cities.
No Cureloms.
A tear wells up in the corner of the imaginary Curelom, envisioned within the brain of mormons today.
And the Jewish Indians?
Gone. Replaced with imposters who no longer carry Jewish DNA.
Ah, but the piercing cry of the Curelom remains!!!
They will testify! Oh, how mormons will testify of the Curelom. Joe said!!!
ampu
:-)
“I believe in Jesus Christ and I sincerely love Him. But i think your belief system is really sad. It makes Him sound almost as intolerant as the Muslim’s allah.”
Perhaps, then, you should take some time to read the Bible and learn what HE says about HIMSELF.
If you substitute what you want to believe, you are making an idol. Mormonism does this to God in every way.
Don’t be taken in. Read the Bible for yourself - apart from what the bom reads INTO the Bible that isn’t there.
NO Your telling me what things were not there. The verse says SOMETHINGS were not available What I’m to understand you are saying NONE of these were available. I don’t read it that way.
NO that is not what I'm saying.
If they worked with Iron could they not have found the secret of steel. I understand you are saying they didn't know how to refine Iron.
I have read the Bible over and over and over. But if its interpretation is as clear as you are making it out to be, then why are there over 1,000 Christian churches!!!...all of which argue over the tenets of their faith?
Are Catholics going to hell? Are Presbyterians? Are Muslims? What if someone in Tibet is never even exposed to Christianity? Is he/she going to hell too?
Religion can get so confusing and dogmatic. Even look at the posts here-—the tone of making fun of a religion. Even if it were false, I can’t see the Lord ever making fun of someone’s sincere belief. He never did. He taught with a spirit of love and understanding. Surely if the people here REALLy cared about Mormons, they would realize that making fun of someone’s faith only pushes them further away.
I don’t substitute what I want to believe; I substitute what is in my heart, when I can not understand what a scripture is telling me. I have learned more and more to listen to the still small voice and pray for inspiration. There are huge gaps in my knowledge-—and a lot of things I am not sure of. But I am sure of this: God lives, Jesus is the Christ-—and my personal savior— and He is nowhere near as unforgiving as you think He is.
“I have read the Bible over and over and over. But if its interpretation is as clear as you are making it out to be, then why are there over 1,000 Christian churches!!!...all of which argue over the tenets of their faith?”
Oh contraire my friend. The inmans here are from every conceivable Christian background. We are unified on the central doctrines of our mutual Christian faith.
“Are Catholics going to hell? Are Presbyterians?”
Those going to heaven are going there by the GRACE of GOD and apart from works. They are those who receive that grace through faith in what Christ has done. It does not matter which church someone is in or not in. Same basis for all.
“Are Muslims? What if someone in Tibet is never even exposed to Christianity? Is he/she going to hell too?”
God can handle it. He knows exactly the most loving thing and the most Just thing to do. YOU however, hear the gospel of grace here and apparently prefer your own works of righteousness that can lead you to hell. What will you do?
“Religion can get so confusing and dogmatic. Even look at the posts here-—the tone of making fun of a religion. Even if it were false, I can’t see the Lord ever making fun of someone’s sincere belief.”
First, a small percentage of what Christ said was recorded, so you do not know that. Second, the Apostle Paul used satire.
“Surely if the people here REALLy cared about Mormons, they would realize that making fun of someone’s faith only pushes them further away.”
In my experience, it takes shaking a mormon up before they consider what is true with fresh eyes. Perhaps it is those who read these threads, who are not participating in the conversation who are why we post. Your assumption is incorrect, therefore.
“I don’t substitute what I want to believe; I substitute what is in my heart, when I can not understand what a scripture is telling me. I have learned more and more to listen to the still small voice and pray for inspiration.”
And the response you get that says Joseph Smith is a prophet is satanic in origin. Feelings are no substitute for objective truth. They may confirm it. They do not define it.
“There are huge gaps in my knowledge-—and a lot of things I am not sure of. But I am sure of this: God lives, Jesus is the Christ-—and my personal savior— and He is nowhere near as unforgiving as you think He is.”
1. You do not know what I believe
2. It doesn’t matter what you think - He is who He is apart from what you think
3. Christ’s FIRST act when He returns is to KILL HIS ENEMIES. How does that fit in with your feelings about forgiveness?
4. MOST IMPORTANTLY - If by Christ you mean the mormon Jesus, created spirit who became a god - it is irrelevant.
That will not get you to heaven. Faith is only as good as the object of faith it is placed in. The Biblical Christ is God, has always been God and is neither created nor made. Only He qualified to lay His life down.
In summary, there is nothing mormonism adds to Biblical Christianity. It takes the most important things away.
best,
ampu
Read the passage a little slower bm. The first verse states clearly that these things were found in "GREAT ABUNDANCE"
The very next verse states that precious things weren't used because they were not found on the land.
Very simple act of deducting bm. What " precious things" were not used in verse 16 that were mentioned in verse 15?
Further bm, according to the Bible, it took 150,000 men seven years to build the temple, but nephite crew of a dozen or so men managed just fine.
I can give you that maybe Nephi found the secret of steel but I doubt that he did. Why have iron when you could have steel. Plus, how to manufacture enough of it for whatever purpose he needed it for. It's a pretty complicated process.
They don't have a clue, just how blasphemous most of their utterances are, or worse, they know and spew it anyway.
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