Posted on 02/12/2011 6:20:06 PM PST by topcat54
Joel McDurmon, hosting today's show for Gary DeMar, exposes End-times Dysfunction (E.D.) for what it is. Joel shares with doomsdayers how they can get relief from their paranoia and troubled souls.
For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. (1 Thess 5:2)To what event does the phrase “thief in the night” refer?
1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
>>I mock Mr. Darby’s theology and those who blindly follow the same, and their suppositions.<<
The word is actually scoff and your talked about in scripture.
To what eschatological event is the parable of the Ten Virgins in Matthew 25 referring?
Do you take “air” to mean the actual atmosphere around the earth? If so, then you admit that in this picture Jesus gets very close to the surface of the earth, within a mile or two, possibly within but a few feet.
What exactly does this passage say about what happens to Jesus and the saints AFTER we meet Him in the air?
Oh, we’re back there again ey? Let’s see who is going to be surprised like by the thief in the night and who is NOT.
1Th 5:1-5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. He is saying the “coming tribulation” will not overtake you as a thief because you are aware of the times and seasons which are a direct reference to the Lord’s Feast Days as well as the signs He said will take place!
Those of us who understand and know what to watch for will not be overtaken.
You used the word “mockery.” I related it to Mr. Darby's errant views.
and your talked about in scripture.
Indeed:
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Cor. 6:11)
Let’s try again: To what event does the phrase “thief in the night” refer?
(I’m not supposed to read your mind.)
That’s easy. He sets it up for us.
Matthew 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
But He also tells us that we will not be “overtaken”.
1Th 5:1-5 … But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief
First of all you need to be familiar with old Jewish custom to totally understand. Especially the Jewish wedding. The father decided the day and hour of the wedding and when he decided it was time he sent his son to get his bride. The “season” was not unknown because the son had been preparing the home for the bride. So here Christ tells us that we won’t know the exact day or hour but to watch and know the season or watch the preparations. As the scripture I sent you told us. Those of us who understand will not be “overtaken”.
When the bridegroom's father deemed the wedding chamber ready, the father would tell the bridegroom that all was ready and to get His bride. The bridegroom would abduct his bride secretly, like a thief at night and take her to the wedding chamber. As the bridegroom approached the bride's home, he would shout and blow the shofar (ram's horn trumpet) so that she had some warning to gather her belongings to take into the wedding chamber. The bridegroom and his friends would come into the bride's house and get the bride and her bridesmaids.
The bridegroom would take his bride to the wedding chamber where they would spend seven days. The bridegroom's friend would wait outside the door of the wedding chamber. When the marriage was consummated, the bridegroom would tell his friend through the door, and the friend would announce it to the assembled guests. The guests would celebrate for seven days until the bride and bridegroom emerged from the wedding chamber. At this time the groom would bring his wife out and introduce her to the community.
Jesus' Fulfillment: Seven Days in the Wedding Chamber
Ancient Jewish eschatology taught that a seven year "time of trouble" would come upon the earth before the coming of the Messiah. During that time of trouble, the righteous would be resurrected and would enter the wedding chamber where they would be protected from the time of trouble. Today that seven year period is referred to, by Christians, as the Tribulation, and as Birth Pangs by the Jews. After 7 years in Heaven the Groom, Christ, will bring His wife to Earth and at the time of His Second Coming He will introduce her to the community on Earth.
The wedding feast follows the 7 days that the bride and groom are sequestered. (the seven year Tribulation period)
Then let’s take a look at Matthew 24 where it speaks of those who think we have plenty of time and are preparing themselves and there children for successful long term “on this earth” lives.
Mt 24: 48-51 48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
So the tale of the virgins is clearly talking about being ready for the Rapture or “catching up”. I choose to understand and “know the season”.
It still boggles my mind that the posters think their pontifications in such regards are remotely
—Biblical
and
remotely—logical.
Given a habitual capacity, by God’s Grace to put myself in the other person’s skin, with some significant effort, I can SORT OF wrap my mind around a hint of where they seem to be coming from.
Yet all my synapses are going
!TILT! !TILT! DOES NOT COMPUTE! DOES NOT COMPUTE! !TILT! !TILT!
Sheesh what hogwash!
The problem here is that I can’t tell when you are speaking and when you are plagiarizing someone else.
1Th 5:1-5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. He is saying the “coming tribulation” will not overtake you as a thief because you are aware of the times and seasons which are a direct reference to the Lord’s Feast Days as well as the signs He said will take place!
Those of us who understand and know what to watch for will not be overtaken.
WELL PUT.
It is late at even - the world's long day seems past, and the Coming of the Bridegroom must be near. The day and the hour we know not, for the bridegroom has been far away. Only this we know, that it is the Evening of the Marriage which the Bridegroom had fixed, and that his word of promise may be relied upon. Therefore all has been made ready within the bridal house, and is in waiting there; and therefore the Virgins prepare to go forth to meet Him on His Arrival. The Parable proceeds on the assumption that the Bridegroom is not in the town, but somewhere far away; so that it cannot be known at what precise hour He may arrive. But it is known that He will come that night; and the Virgins who are to meet Him have gathered - presumably in the house where the Marriage is to take place - waiting for the summons to go forth and welcome the Bridegroom. The common mistake, that the Virgins are represented in verse as having gone forth on the road to meet the Bridegroom, is not only irrational - since it is scarcely credible that they would all have fallen asleep by the wayside, and with lamps in their hands - but incompatible with the circumstance, that at midnight the cry is suddenly raised to go forth and meet Him. In these circumstances, no precise parallel can be derived from the ordinary Jewish marriage-processions, where the bridegroom, accompanied by his groomsmen and friends, went to the bride's house, and thence conducted the bride, with her attendant maidens and friends, into his own or his parents' home. But in the Parable, the Bridegroom comes from a distance and goes to the bridal house. Accordingly, the bridal procession is to meet Him on His Arrival, and escort Him to the bridal place. No mention is made of the Bride, either in this Parable of in that or the Marriage of the King's Son. This, for reasons connected with their application: since in the one case the Wedding Guests, in the other the Virgins, occupy the place of the Bride. And here we must remind ourselves of the general canon, that, in the interpretation of a Parable, details must not be too closely pressed. The Parables illustrate the Sayings of Christ, as the Miracles His Doings; and alike the Parables and the Miracles present only one or another, not all the aspects of the truth. ( Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah)Somewhat different twist from your scenario. In fact, the notion of the bridegroom coming from a distance is supported by reading the next parable.
In any event your extraneous items are being forced upon the text from your mishnah. The simple reading is that the virgins go out from the town and escort the bridegroom to the place of the wedding.
This is what happens at the Second Coming.
Let’s first look at where the term “thief in the night” came from.
In Revelation 16:15 we see the most definitive example of the "thief" analogy being applied to the return of Christ: Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
During the time that the Jewish Temple was standing when Jesus was here the first time, the high priest and the captain of the guard were known as the “thief in the night” and, this is why. There were watch posts at the Temple where the priest had to be watching. One of the things they had to watch for was that the fire on the altar would not go out. This was a Godly fire that fell on the altar and it was commanded by God that this fire never go out. The priest had to watch this fire. If her priest was found to be sleeping when the captain of the guard checked on his rounds, the captain of the guard would take his torch, which was next to the altar fire, and set the priest’s garment on fire with the torch. The priest would be awaken by the fire, he would get up run through the Temple tearing off the garments that were on fire, and the shame of the priest’s nakedness would appear.
Look what it says in Isaiah chapter 26:20-21 “Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.”
These are the chamber’s Jesus will keep his church in while the seven-year tribulation is taking place on earth.
The church, bride of Christ, will be hidden from these terrible times that will befall the earth during the tribulation.
The phrase phrase is used in relation to the “catching away” or Rapture of the believers. Those of us who understand know what to watch for. We know the season.
Folks whose minds suffer from E.B. (easily boggled) probably should hang out in the Religion Forum.
But I still can’t tell when you are speaking and when you are plagiarizing someone else.
I think we should probably wait until you have done enough study on your own. I didn’t mean to overwhelm you with my questions. It's obvious that you are personally unprepared.
I assume that’s you writing and not someone else.
How is it then that both Peter (2 Peter 3:10) and Paul (1 Thessalonians 5:2) use it in reference to the Second Coming, and not the futurist rapture?
In fact it is never used in any of your so-called rapturist texts.
>>Somewhat different twist from your scenario.<<
Not a different twist at all. If the Shofar is blown to announce the grooms arrival it’s entirely possible that he be at a distance. It makes no difference to the similarities.
I’d actually neve been to the site you posted but that information is on so many sites it doesn’t matter. If you need to use that as a defense rather then being able to refute or debate the issue go ahead and hide behind it.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but in the futurist world this passage is a vision of after the rapture, with Jesus speaking during the so-called tribulation period.
14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.Are you just cherry picking verses?
15 "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame."
16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon. (Rev. 16)
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