Posted on 02/12/2011 12:50:08 PM PST by topcat54
“It’s awfully hard to actually suggest abortion,” said Smith. “But, you know, I’m sure that, uh, in a case like this where the life expectancy is just, you know, is so bleak, and all, that I’m sure that the Lord would not condemn her if she went ahead and had an abortion at this early stage of the development of the fetus.”
About a decade ago, I heard a Chuck Smith / Calvary Chapel radio series on the Book of Revelation, in which he claimed that during the millennial reign of Christ, there will be a restoration of animal sacrifices in the rebuilt temple. He admitted this view (temple-based animal sacrifices post-Second Coming) appears to be in conflict with Jesus' once-for-all sacrifice, but he maintained that the millennial-timed offering of animal sacrifices is taught in the Bible.
I stopped listening to Chuck Smith after that. No one has offered me a good reason to start again.
When an organization as large and powerful as Calvary Chapel is utterly devoid of checks and balances or doctrinal, financial, and moral accountability, the results will not be surprising: abuse, power-struggles, and the oft-unspoken fear of raising even the smallest objection to the whims of the powers that be.Related threads:
-- from the thread Chuck Smith, Calvary Chapel, and their Ignorance Fest on Calvinism"...the Calvary Distinctives are a whole lot different than the Westminster Confession. Anyone who reads the Calvary document should be troubled that Chuck Smith makes no reference to God as a Trinity, or to the Deity of Jesus Christ. You can believe in almost anything so long as you behave in the right way."
-- Alex Murphy, Post #48 on that same thread
I am a woman, and I never considered I should have a choice of deciding whether another human being gets to live or not.*
I do have a heart and understand that life often contains horrible, tragic circumstances. I don’t know why such tragedies occur, but what I do know is that God’s grace is sufficient to endure them.
*Exception: Any perp posing an immediate danger to me or my family.
The threshold between murder and killing often differs between individuals.
Did I call you a mindless sycophant that will adopt the views of the first preacher that sends a thrill up your leg?
No. Then why did you call me a name?
I'm not really concerned about another individual’s threshold. It's God's threshold that I'm interested in.
I’ve listened to Chuck SMith and read his works for nearly three decades. He’s certainly not perfect, and I don’t agree with everything he’s ever taught. I don’t believe, however, that he’s the heretic that some here have made him out to be. Nor do I think he’s a crook, a cheat, nor generally evil. Calvary Chapel does not support the “Emergent Church” movement. His own son was forced OUT of the Calvary Church movement for being “too emergent” for crying out loud! So — you all can give that a rest.
However, that does NOT dismiss that the advice Smith gave in this case, regardless of what his motivation was — compassion, being a grandfather, a father, whatever — was unbiblical, wrong, and harmful. This SHOULD be a red flag, a flashing beacon, to the elders at Calvary Chapel and the leaders of his media ministries that Pastor Chuck’s role at live public “advice” programs or Q & A’s needs to be curtailed.
There comes a time when, out of wisdom, Ministers need to withdraw from constant public exposure and interaction, for the good of the Lord they represent, the principles for which they stand, and the message they deliver.
Ok, none taken. I just had a comment or two.
This thread would be unintentionally funny if baby killing wasn’t involved. Here’s something to chew on: Protestants are almost always pro-abortion. They just don’t know it. If you’re for contraceptives, you’re for abortion.
You wrote:
“Stunning, especially from someone who teaches the uncompromising Word of God. From here on out, everything that Chuck Smith “teaches” is suspect as far as I’m concerned. Unlike Mariner, I will fault him for it. God changes not.”
True. Now where in the Bible is abortion ever even mentioned?
I do fault him for it, too. If that life is not going to make it, the Lord gave it and the Lord can take it.
CS seems to have cut loose of his moorings.
What can the elders at CC do about Smith and his renegade remarks?
Did his elders do anything when he predicted Jesus would return in 1988?
Did they do anything when Smith promoted his buddy David Hocking to a position of leadership at CC after Hocking got caught in a “marital indiscretion” and was relieved of his duties at his own church and told to undergo biblical restoration? Instead he choose to flee to Brother Smith.
"Protestants are almost always pro-abortion. They just don’t know it."
Is it that you can't target someone specifically that you chose to use a shotgun?
There are many who are stunned by Pastor Chuck's comments, me included. And I'm a non-denom.
Got anything smarmy left in the chamber?
Preventing a birth is not abortion, it’s preventing fertilization. If you want to carry it further you can say that nature is aborting when a woman miscarries, or, when she has her monthly period without the egg being fertilized.
you wrote:
“Is it that you can’t target someone specifically that you chose to use a shotgun?”
No, I specifically targeted Protestantism.
“Got anything smarmy left in the chamber?”
Yes, but I haven’t used any smarmy yet. You consider the truth smarmy?
You wrote:
“Preventing a birth is not abortion,”
Only abortion prevents birth. If there is already a baby on the way only abortion would prevent birth.
“it’s preventing fertilization.”
The Pill is an abortifacient. Did you fail high school biology at your government school?
“If you want to carry it further you can say that nature is aborting when a woman miscarries,”
Yes, a miscarriage is called “Spontaneous Abortion”.
“or, when she has her monthly period without the egg being fertilized.”
You apparently failed Logis as well as Biology.
You talked, mentioned condoms. I answered to condoms preventing fertilization. Are you being insipid or what?
You wrote:
“You talked, mentioned condoms.”
No, no I did not. I guess you failed reading in your government school too, huh?
“I answered to condoms preventing fertilization.”
You can’t answer to what wasn’t asked or stated.
“Are you being insipid or what?”
Wow. That’s hilarious coming from someone who apparently is struggling mightily to read the written word in his own native tongue.
A bit like an early Christian going to his priest and being advised, well, if you do sacrifice to Caesar and deny Christ, that’s okay because you will be saving your life. True we can’t expect others to be heroic, but we all know what heroism really means.
Its not unbelievable. In fact, Dr Walter Martin himself made hay of the fact that the Bible doesnt speak to abortion and that he was okay with it. I listened to Bible Answer Man for years in the 80’s and those episodes when he talked like that were far and few between but they were his word and left me agog with a man that I had previously thought had a tight theology. He had a few other doctrinal quirks also, that were usually covered under that same abortion topic of what the Bible speaks to.
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