Posted on 02/05/2011 11:07:42 AM PST by Gamecock
In the book of Judges we read about another generation which arose, which knew neither the Lord nor what He had done (Judges 2:10). Today, it appears that a generation has arisen, which like Israel under the Judges, knows little of either the Lord nor of what He did during the time of the Protestant exodus and the struggles in the wilderness, which followed in the 16th and 17th century. Sometimes this is from a cowardly dislike of controversy and confrontation. But few people seem to understand either the evils from which the Reformation delivered us or the blessings which the Reformation won for us.
The Reformation delivered the Church from gross ignorance and spiritual darkness The church, before the Reformation, was a church without the Bible. And a church without a Bible is as useless as a lighthouse without light, a candlestick without a candle, or a motor vehicle without an engine. The priests and people knew scarcely anything about God’s Word or the way of salvation in Christ.
Bishop J.C. Ryle described the situation: “The immense majority of the clergy did little more than say masses and offer up pretended sacrifices, repeat Latin prayers and chant Latin hymns (which of course most of the people could not understand), hear confessions, grant absolutions, give extreme unction, and take money to get dead people out of purgatory.”
Bishop Latimer observed: “When the devil gets influence in a church, up go candles and down goes preaching.”
Quarterly sermons (that is, once every three months) were prescribed to the clergy, but not insisted upon. Latimer noted that while the mass was never left unsaid for a single Sunday, sermons might be omitted for 20 Sundays in succession. Indeed, to preach much was to incur the suspicion of being a heretic.
Bishop Hooper, who along with Bishop Latimer was burned alive at the stake under Queen Mary, did a survey in 1551 and found that out of 311 clergy in his Diocese, 168 were unable to repeat the Ten Commandments, 31 of those 168 could not even say in which part of the Scripture the Ten Commandments were to be found, 40 could not tell where the Lord’s Prayer was written, and 31 of the 40 did not even know who the author of the Lord’s Prayer was!
Bishop Ryle summarized the situation: “Before the Reformation was a religion without knowledge, without faith and without lively hope – a religion without justification, regeneration and sanctification – a religion without any clear views of Christ and the Holy Ghost. Except in rare instances, it was little better than an organized system of Mary worship, saint worship, image worship, relic worship, pilgrimages, alms giving, formalism, ceremonialism, processions, penances, absolutions, masses and blind obedience to the priests. It was a huge higgledy-piggledy of ignorance and idolatry, and serving an unknown God by deputy. The only practical result was that the priests took the people’s money and undertook to secure their salvation. And the people flattered themselves that the more they gave to the priests, the more sure they were to go to Heaven!”
The Reformation delivered the church from childish superstitions The Roman Catholic church, before the Reformation, taught its members to seek spiritual benefit from so-called relics of dead saints and to treat them with divine honor. Calvin’s “Inventory of Relics” and Hobart Seymour’s “Pilgrimage to Rome” catalog some of the ludicrous swindles which were perpetrated by the church of Rome. This included pieces of wood “of the true cross” enough to load a large ship, thorns professing to be part of the Saviour’s crown of thorns, enough to make a huge faggot, at least 14 nails said to have been used at the Crucifixion, four spearheads – each purporting to be the one which pierced our Lord’s side, at least three seamless coats of Christ, for which the soldiers cast lots, Saint James’s hand, bones of Mary Magdalene, toenails from Saint Edmund, some bread, purported to have been used by Christ at the Last Supper, a girdle of the Virgin Mary and milk from the Virgin Mary! The Royal Commissioners of Henry VIII examined a vial at the Abbey in Gloucestershire, which was said to contain the blood of Christ! The Commissioners found that it contained the blood of a duck.
There were literally thousands of profane and vile inventions, fabrications and deceptions, which Roman priests imposed on the people before the Reformation. They must have known that they were deceiving the people, yet they persisted in presenting these lies and requiring that the ignorant laity believe them. Sometimes the priests induced dying sinners to give vast tracts of lands to abbeys and monasteries, in order to atone for their bad lives. In one way or another, they were continually separating sinners from their money and accumulating property and wealth in the hands of the Roman church.
The power of the priests was practically despotic and was used for every purpose except the advancement of the Christian faith. It seemed that their primary object was power. To them confession had to be made. Without their absolution and extreme unction no professing Christian could be saved. Without their masses no soul could be redeemed from purgatory. In short, they were, to all intents and purposes, the mediators between Christ and man. To please and honor the Roman church was a devout Christian’s first duty. To injure them was the greatest of sins. One of the indulgences issued in 1498, with the authority of the Pope, claimed: “To absolve people from usury, theft, manslaughter, fornication and all crime whatsoever, except smiting the clergy and conspiring against the Pope!”
A starving man in a famine may be reduced to eating rats and rubbish, rather than die of hunger. Similarly, a conscience-stricken soul, deprived of God’s Word, should not be judged too harshly by us, if they struggled to find comfort in the most debasing superstition. However, we must never forget that it was from such superstitions which the Reformation delivered us.
The Reformation delivered the church from blatant immorality Before the Reformation, the lives of the clergy were simply scandalous. There were brothels in the Vatican. The Popes, Cardinals and Bishops openly consorted with prostitutes and engaged in the most debauched orgies. The local priests became notorious for gluttony, drunkenness and gambling. As Bishop Ryle pointed out: “To expect the huge roots of ignorance and superstition, which filled our land, to bear any but corrupt fruit, would be unreasonable and absurd.”
Contemporary art depicted friars as foxes preaching with the neck of a stolen goose peeping out of the hood behind; as wolves giving absolution, with the sheep partly concealed under their cloaks; or as apes sitting on a sick man’s bed with a crucifix in one hand and with the other hand in the suffering person’s pocket! Such public contempt in art reflects the scorn with which the clergy were held at the time.
Bishop Ryle pointed out: “But the blackest spot on the character of our pre-Reformation clergy in England is one of which it is painful to speak … their horrible contempt of the 7th Commandment … the consequences of shutting up herds of men and women in the prime of life, in monasteries and nunneries, were such that I will not defile my paper by dwelling upon them … if ever there was a plausible theory weighed in the balance and found utterly wanting, it is the favorite theory that celibacy and monasticism promote holiness … monasteries and nunneries were frequently sinks of iniquity.”
The report of the Royal Commissioners, under Henry VIII, declared: “That manifest sin, vicious, carnal and abominable living, is daily used and committed in abbeys, priories, and other religious houses of monks, cannons and nuns, and that albeit many continual visitations have been had, by the space of 200 years or more, for an honest and charitable reformation of such unthrifty, carnal and abominable living, yet that nevertheless, little or none amendment was hitherto had, but that their vicious living shamefully increased and augmented.”
It was observed that: “There is no surer recipe for promoting immorality than fullness of bread and abundance of idleness.” (Ezekiel 16:49) It is from such superstition, corruption, immorality, ignorance and idolatry that the Reformation freed the church.
The Reformation gave the church back the Bible In 1519, six men and a woman were burned at Coventry for teaching their children the Ten Commandments, the Lord’s Prayer and the Apostle’s Creed in English. Nothing seems to have alarmed and enraged the Roman priesthood as much as the spread of Bibles in the local language. It was for the crime of translating the Bible into English that the Reformer, William Tyndale, was burned at the stake. Of all the aspects which combined to make up the Reformation, no other aspect received such bitter opposition as the translation and circulation of the Scriptures. The translation of the Bible struck a blow at the root of the whole Roman Catholic system. The Bible, as the only rule of faith and conduct, freely available in the local languages, was a threat to all the superstitions and abuses of the medieval Roman popery. With the Bible in every parish church, every thoughtful man soon saw that the religion of the priests had no basis in Holy Scripture.
The Reformation opened the road to the throne of Grace The way of salvation had become blocked up and made impassible by heaps of superstitious rubble. “He who desired to obtain forgiveness had to seek it through a jungle of priests, saints, Mary worship, masses, penances, confession, absolution and the like, so that there might as well have been no throne of Grace at all.” J.C. Ryle
The Reformers hacked their way through this huge jungle of papal obstruction and cleared the way for every heavy-laden sinner to go straight to the Lord Jesus Christ for remission of sins.
The Reformation restored Biblical simplicity to worship Before the Reformation, the laity were only present at church services as passive, ignorant spectators. The elaborate, theatrical presentations of the sacraments were a solemn farce because the ceremonies and prayers were in Latin. The laity could bring their bodies to the services, but their minds, understanding, reason and spirit could take no part at all. For this reason, the 24th Article of the Church of England declared: “It is a thing totally repugnant to the Word of God and the custom of the primitive church to have public prayer in the church or to minister the sacraments in a tongue not understood of the people.”
The Reformation gave a Biblical understanding of the office of a minister Before the Reformation, the concept of the Christian ministry was sacerdotal. That is – it was understood that every clergyman was a sacrificing priest. The clergy were understood to hold the keys of Heaven and to be practically the mediators between God and man.
The Reformers brought the office of the clergy down to its Scriptural level. They stripped it entirely of any sacerdotal character. They cast out the words “sacrifice” and “altar”. They taught that the clergy were pastors, ambassadors, messengers, witnesses, evangelists, teachers and ministers of the Word and sacraments. The Reformers taught that the chief business of every Christian minister is to preach the Word and to be diligent in prayer and the reading of the Scriptures. The Reformers taught the immense superiority of the pulpit to the confessional. For this reason, where the altar used to be, the Lord’s table was placed with an open Bible, or a pulpit, showing the centrality of God’s Word in the worship of Protestant churches.
The Reformation restored a Biblical understanding of holiness Before the Reformation, it was believed that a monastic life and vows of celibacy were the only ways to escape sin and to attain sanctification. Multitudes of men and women poured into the monasteries and convents under the vain idea that this would please God and ensure their eternal salvation.
The Reformers struck at the root of this fallacy by establishing the great Scriptural principle that true religion was not to be found in retiring into convents and monasteries and fleeing from the difficulties of daily life, but in manfully facing up to our difficulties and doing our duty diligently - in every position to which God calls us. It is not by running away from the world, that we fulfill God’s call, but by courageously resisting the devil, the flesh and the world and overcoming them in daily life. That is how true holiness is to be exhibited. For this reason, the Reformers dissolved the monasteries and convents in their areas and freed the inmates to be reintegrated into normal life.
The Reformers also ordered that the Ten Commandments be set up in every parish church and taught to every child, and that our duty towards God and our neighbor be set forth in the Catechism. They insisted that you cannot become saints by shirking your duties in society.
A Heritage of Faith and Freedom We must continually thank God for the Reformation. It lit the flames of knowledge and freedom which we must ensure are never allowed to be extinguished or to grow dim. We need to continually remember that the Reformation was won for us by the blood of many tens of thousands of martyrs. It was not only by their preaching and praying, and writing and legislation, but by their sacrifices that our religious liberty, freedom of conscience and Christian heritage was won.
The Reformation found church members steeped in ignorance and left them in possession of knowledge. It found them without Bibles and left them with the Bible in every parish. It found them in darkness and left them in light. It found them bound in fear and left them enjoying the liberty and peace which only Christ can give. It found them strangers to the blood of Christ’s atonement, to faith, grace and holiness and left them with the key of all those blessings in their hands. It found them blind and left them with spiritual eyes to see. It found them slaves to superstition and set them free to serve Christ.
As Bishop Ryle declared: “Are we to return to a church which boasts that she is infallible and never changes – to a church which has never repented her pre-Reformation superstitions and abominations – to a church which has never confessed and abjured her countless corruptions? Are we to go back to gross ignorance of true religion? Shame on us, I say, if we entertain the idea for a moment! Let the Israelite return to Egypt, if he will. Let the prodigal go back to his husks among the swine. Let the dog return to his vomit. But let no Englishman with brains in his head, ever listen to the idea of exchanging Protestantism for Popery, or returning to the bondage of the church of Rome. No, indeed! … God forbid! The man who counsels such base apostasy and suicidal folly, must be judicially blind. The iron collar has been broken; let us not put it on again. The prison has been thrown open; let us not resume the yoke and return to our chains … Let us not go back to ignorance, superstition, priestcraft and immorality.”
If you have a Bible in your own language, and enjoy to read and study God’s Word, never forget that you owe that Bible to the Reformation. Brave men and women died that you could have the freedom to delight in God’s Word.
If you know the joy of sins forgiven and new life in Christ, if you are walking by faith and enjoying peace with God, never forget that you owe this priceless privilege to the Reformation.
If you enjoy Church services, Scripture choruses, Hymns, prayers and sermons in your own language, remember that for this you are also indebted to the Reformation.
If you appreciate the Biblical and practical sermons of your pastor, and his counsel, never forget that for this you are indebted to the Reformation. The Reformation is the source of many blessings. We need to ask if we are on the side of the Reformers, or of those who burned them and the Bible. “… Contend earnestly for the Faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.” Jude 3
Because I was busy and didn't see it instantly when you posted it and even if I did, that doesn't obligate me to answer you immediately, if ever.
Nor did that even give me a chance to think about and compose a reply.
Honestly, how controlling can someone get?
you claim to have been a Catholic once, if that was true, you know the answer already. stop playing games, you know you never were taught to worship Mary. if you were never Catholic and all you know about the Church is from what a pastor told you, then i can understand your question, in that case, do your own research.
“I can’t help it if you don’t like it, but there’s simply no other way to read that.”
You can’t refute my post other than disagreeing with the correct interpretation.
Have a nice day!
So let me get this straight. You don’t believe ONE God three persons?
yes, see my post #439
Scripture that supports Mary being the “Queen of Heaven”?
Scripture that supports that Mary is a co-redemptrix?
Scripture that supports Mary was born without sin?
Scripture that supports that Mary was sinless?
Mary was a woman. She was the vessel in which Christ was born. Sinful just like the rest of us. No different than the rest of us in birth or death.
And, also — the scripture to which you refer doesn’t claim what you’re trying to say that it claims.
You wrote:
‘8 While he was speaking, a woman from the crowd called out and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that carried you and the breasts at which you nursed.”
28
He replied, “Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” ‘
Who was the woman referring to? Did any other womb bear Christ? Did any other breast nurse him? Then WHO else could Christ be referring to when he said, “rather....”?
Get it? Those who hear God’s word and observe it are RATHER to be blessed than the womb that bore Him or the breasts that nursed him. Try to ACTUALLY read it in context instead of reading IN what the Roman Catholic Church claims.
Sorry.
Hoss
why would he get a shock wave that i am not “oneness”?
He answered that one already.
If this is an example of your reasoning skills, ........
Never mind......
Tell you what.....
If you want to build a case against him, provide the links to the quotes so that others can go back and read them themselves instead of trying to depend on your incoherent, grammatical atrocities to figure out who said what and who what was replying to.
A piece of advice.
Go into something besides law.
“You don’t have your own business in order when you question the Word of the Almighty God. Hear and Obey is the command.”
Amen.
you must have been very good a dodge ball, back in the day. you are the one that claims the Church teaches false doctrine, therefore it is not the true Church.
ok, if it isn’t, there must be another spiritual body of believers who did not call themselves Cathlolic, nor hold to the Catholic Faith from 95ad to 1517ad, correct?
well, who were they, did they have a name? did they have leaders?
your lack of specifics is deafening, because we both know no one existed who holds to your unorthodox beliefs before the 16th century.
i notice you never answered my question from a week or so regarding who has the authority to set the canon of Scripture.
also, you never answered my question on the murderer who is executed, but is baptized right before his execution, does the Catholic Faith teach he goes straight to heaven when he dies? this was to dispute your claim the Church teaches we are saved by good works, the murderer did not do any good works. if you answer yes, the Catholic Church teaches the murderer goes straight heaven, was it because of grace alone he was saved or by his nonexistent good works?
“Honestly, how controlling can someone get?”
Well, consider the source. Apparently that’s what the men in dresses and party hats teach. And you knoooooowwwwww they have to be right. Even when they’re not, they’re right. Or is that rite? ;)
Hoss
“You can’t refute my post other than disagreeing with the correct interpretation.”
Uhhh. She DID refute it.
Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it wasn’t done.
Have a nice day too!
Hoss
i and all Christians answer with statement a.
i and everyone else can see, you are not answering the question. stand up for your beliefs man!
riiittteee....
That was funny.
You need to give it up dude. One God, three persons.
Seriously, I have to run. Super Bowl *Bowel as far as I’m concerned* supper to get going. Company coming.
“1) Sola scriptura contradicts itself, because it is not taught in scripture.
2) Sola scriptura is an example of the logical fallacy of begging the question, inasmuch as the canonical scriptures never identify what is and what is not scripture.
3) The Bible teaches that oral tradition is a source of revelation.
4) The Bible shows the Catholic system of authority.
5) The writings of the earliest Christians show the Catholic system of authority.
6) The legitimate practices of the Jews developed, and the scriptures were not viewed as an exclusive guide.
7) The infant Church in Acts is in a constant state of development.
8) Sola scriptura was not believed by anybody until the Reformation, and is thus a tradition of man, condemned by Jesus.
9) The Bible prophesies the rise and growth of the Catholic Church.
10) The Church of Christ has no historical connection to the Church established in Jerusalem in 33 AD.
11) The Church of Christ only teaches sola scriptura because she split from Calvinism and is, therefore, a Protestant denomination or sect, and not the Universal Church of the Bible.
1) Sola scriptura contradicts itself, because it is not taught in scripture.
The doctrine that the Bible alone is our only religious authority is not taught in the Bible. There is no book, chapter, and verse that demands book, chapter, and verse authority for every doctrine and practice. Don’t get me wrong—I believe that the 27 letters which are in the New Testament are inspired. I believe that they are inerrant. I believe that they are authoritative. However, they NEVER CLAIM to be our only authority. The entire doctrine collapses because it contradicts itself.”
http://www.catholicsource.net/articles/sola1.html
“2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.
TRADITIONS in the teachings of the Fathers and of the things known by the Apostles and given to us by word of mouth and in the traditions are how we know.
Catholics believe Scripture and follow it. We do not believe in Sola Scriptura.
I’ll play tomorrow, maybe.
Peace be with you.
It's your church. YOU tell US.
If even you can figure out what you just asked.
i provided the exact links in posts 431, 432 and 433. it is all there for anyone with eyes to see.
want to take a crack at post #439, which statement a. or b. decribes your belief about the nature of God? you could settle a lot of questions with the answer.
They don’t read the refuting posts.
“ok, if it isn’t, there must be another spiritual body of believers who did not call themselves Cathlolic, nor hold to the Catholic Faith from 95ad to 1517ad, correct?
well, who were they, did they have a name? did they have leaders?”
Duh. They WERE and ARE called Christians and their leader is Jesus Christ. Not some man-made, scripture-twisting edifice that likes to add to God’s word and teaches a false doctrine.
See? Simple.
“because we both know no one existed who holds to your unorthodox beliefs before the 16th century.”
Try reading the Bible — uh.. you know. That ‘book’ you claim that the Roman Catholic Church wrote? That’s what WE believe... just like those CHRISTIANS to whom Jesus spoke and taught, to whom epistles were written by theApostles — not some twisted bilge that men in dresses and party hats tell you to believe.
Again, you fail. Fail, fail, fail. Or maybe, flail, flail, flail.
Try, try again.
Hoss
She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.
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