Posted on 02/01/2011 12:52:59 PM PST by RnMomof7
A vial containing blood drawn from Pope John Paul II shortly before he died will be installed as a relic in a Polish church soon after his beatification later this year, an official said Monday. Piotr Sionko, the spokesman for the John Paul II Center, said the vial will be encased in crystal and built into the altar of a church in the southern city of Krakow that is opening in May. The exact date of the opening is not yet known, but it should be shortly after John Paul's beatification at the Vatican on May 1........... "It was the cardinal's proposal," Sionko said. "He is of the opinion that this is the most precious relic of John Paul II and should be the focal point of the church." .........
"The idea of displaying the pope's relics has met with some reservations, even inside the Catholic Church. "The tradition of relics comes from medieval practices of teaching the Bible through images and symbols," said the Rev. Krzysztof Madel, a Jesuit priest in Nowy Sacz who has publicly questioned the usefulness of displaying John Paul's blood. "But in today's rationalized world the message should rather come through teaching about someone's life." After John Paul's death, some Polish officials said they hoped John Paul's heart would be removed from his body and returned to his homeland for burial. However, church officials dismissed any possibility of dismembering the body, saying the age had passed for that practice. Dziwisz said Friday that he has always been against dividing of the body, but that "relics have always existed and will always exist."
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Didn’t like my reply huh? So does a scapular save you from purgatory Judith ?
Jesus said it was His body, that's all the proof I need.
If you can't or don't want to answer the question I posed just say so.
Scapulars ARE superstition.
There’s zero Scriptural support for them.
yada yada yada
>> The bread and wine is changed into the Body and Blood of Christ.<<
Jesus said He was the “bread of heaven” and “I am the bread sent from heaven”. When you say the body and blood of Christ are saying bread or do you believe His body was made up of physical flesh and blood?
>>How can you state with any certainty that that exact same divine nature is not also present in the Eucharist based upon your eyeballs only examination?<<
Spiritually speaking it is a representation of the “bread of heaven” just as the manna was in the wilderness.
It’s a consistent theme throughout scripture.
Too funny!
Why have you added a new fact to the proposed situation?
I will try to make it easy and beyond confusion, just for you:
1. If a priest with a very heavy sin on his soul (for which has has not been absolved) intends to and does celebrate the Eucharist, then the Eucharist is valid (and thoroughly efficacious for the believers who properly partake), though it is illicit (due to the improper disposition of the priest.
2. If a priest (regardless of whether he is in a state of grace or has a havy sin on his soul) is distracted and can’t possibly intend to celebrate the Eucharist, then the Eucharist is not valid (and not sacramentally efficacious for the believers who properly partake). In this situation we would trust that God will bestow sufficient grace and mercy to the devout who presumed to attend a valid Eucharist but did not through no fault of their own.
Under the appearances of bread and wine, we receive the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.....that’s it.
No need to believe as Catholics believe. I happen not to agree with you, that’s all.
Did you read the definition of transubstantiation above?
It’s a transfer — not a Hysical change as you like to say.
Under the appearances of bread and wine, we receive the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ.....that’s it.
No need to believe as Catholics believe. I happen not to agree with you, that’s all.
Did you read the definition of transubstantiation above?
It’s a transfer — not a physical change as you like to say.
Wrong. It is totally unscriptural to say that Jesus is still dying. He died ONCE, past tense.
Hebrews 9:11-12 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.
Hebrews 9:24-28 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
The Mass is a participation in this one heavenly offering. The risen Christ is present on the altar as a living sacrifice.
Wrong again. He's now seated at the right hand of God.
Hebrews 10:11-14 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected (past tense) for all time those who are being sanctified.
He fulfilled the law, and at the same time he did away with laws that were no longer beneficial.
Christians don’t follow that old Jewish law that one can’t drink blood - because Christ did away with it when he became the Passover Lamb.
Consider that Jews had a probation against the eating of blood, yet not one disciple asked Jesus what He meant. That is because they understood when he took the APHIKOMEN into his hands, this broken Matzo that had been hidden in a linen wrap was symbolic of HIM.
Matzo has no leaven, leaven is a sign of sin. Jesus was sinless.
The Matzo had been broken as His body would be broken .
It was wrapped in linen as He would be and be hidden for a time.
This is the exact spot where Jesus proclaimed “This is my body which is given for you.” as he held that broken Matzo
The next step of the ritual meal is drinking from the wine-goblet called the “Cup of Redemption.” That’s when Jesus said,
“This cup is the New Testament (Covenant ) in my blood, which is shed for you.”
The Four Cups of wine used in the Pesach / Passover Seder symbolize the four distinct redemptions promised by God to the Hebrews as told in Exodus 6:6-7.
(1) “I will take you out of Egypt”,
(2) “I will deliver you from Egyptian slavery”,
(3) “I will redeem you with a demonstration of my power”, and
(4) “I will acquire you as a nation
It was the 3rd cup we hear about in the last passover meal
Because Catholics do not seem to understand the Passover is a TYPE, a foreshadow of the work of Christ at the cross that would fulfill the OT prophecies and types , you also miss the meaning of these words.
The cup that was a TYPE of that redemption is what Christ was talking about here. He was about to fulfill the prophetic meaning of that cup.
Jesus was about to redeem ( acquire) the elect at the cross. We are truly BOUGHT with a price, and that price is HIS blood .
The Passover meal was a REMEMBRANCE of the deliverance of the Jews. Just as the passover was a type of Christ so is the Passover meal.
Jesus was telling them this, and He was telling them NOW instead of the remembrance of the passover, their eyes were opened and the meaning revealed NOW they were to do the mean in remembrance of HIM, of His blood, the blood of the Lamb of God.
As He held that bread He was revealing the mystery that the symbolism held.
Think of the words the apostles used
1Cr 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
The broken matzo was a type of Christ, who’s body would be broken for them.
Then in the passover tradition
The host now takes the third cup of wine, “the cup of redemption,” or “the cup of blessing,” and offers the main table grace blessing. (In Jewish tradition, the main blessing comes after the meal.) Then they all drink from the third cup.
Luke 22:20,
“Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, ‘This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you’.”
Here is what the apostles and disciples said at the Lords table
1Cr 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
The were recalling “remembering” the PASSOVER ritual. THEY understood that Jesus was revealing a spiritual truth about the passover being a prophetic meal that prefigured HIM.
The Passover was fulfilled on the day that Christ died, and so from that day forward that meal not longer held a prophetic promise of a future savior, but it was now a remembrance of the completed work of salvation at the cross.
Jesus died once for all .. the mass is an abomination to God.
“Wrong again. He’s now seated at the right hand of God.”
Actually, Metmom, let me fix this for you:
“Wrong, AS ALWAYS. He’s now seated at the right hand of God.”
There. Much better.
;)
Hoss
similar to shaved huh??
So Cronos does the scapular keep you out of purgatory ? Do you pray to die on a Friday night so you get out the next day?
You are again projecting a casualness and irreverence to the most sacred act in Christianity that is not supported by any fact or legitimate speculation. How you view the Eucharist in no way affects how a priest does or how the participants in the mass do. For actual believers, a miracle occurs during every mass. Its a pity you never believed enough to participate in it.
And for the record, as a former altar boy, it was the naughty future ex-Catholic girls who spent the most amount of time during mass oogling the altar boys instead of worshiping.
Where is the mystery?
Soon after the events of the Johannine “bread of life” discourse in which he loses a bunch of followers who don’t like it when he tells his followers emphtically that they must gnaw on his very flesh and drink his very blood,
Jesus ate a meal with the apostles and during that meal
Jesus gave bread to the apostles, said “this is my body” and told them to eat it;
Jesus then gave wine to the apostles, said “this is my blood” and told them to drink it.
Of both
the bread (which he held up saying “this is my body”)
and
the wine (which he held up saying “this is my blood”),
Jesus said he would not eat them again until a similar point in the future.
From the Scriptural accounts of this event, it would be hard to claim that Jesus will not someday share a similar meal with his disciples that will include his Body and his Blood.
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