Similarities between Mormonism and Scientology

epologetics.org via alma.edu ^ | Dec. 23, 2007

[Colofornian]

* Origins

o Based on entirely unevidenced stories

o Doctrines created and evolved over time, sometimes changing

* Founders

o Known for their extreme desire for wealth

o Known for telling stories and lies

o Convicted and imprisoned for illegal activities

o Died during their trouble with the law

* Legal troubles

o Involved in many illegal activities, in many cases as part of official organization doctrine and practices

o Support destruction of outsiders, especially apostates (blood atonement, shunning, "fair game")

o Legal troubles led to changes in doctrine (at least on the surface, note polygamy and "fair game")

* Teachings

o Pre- and post-mortal existence

o Eternal progression (godhood, clear thetan)

o Only way to know truth is to experience it yourself

o Christianity, Bible only partly true

o Focus on thriving and happiness in present life rather than the afterlife or eternal life

o "Salvation" by works

o Give "milk" instead of "meat"

o Official endorsement of lying about or avoiding discussion of controversial doctrines, especially origin of man and key figures (Heavenly Father, Xenu, spirit children, thetans, etc)

o Levels can be achieved (Operating Thetan levels, temple Mormons, eternal progression, different kingdoms)

o Resistance is dismissed as proof/evidence of validity

* Behavior

o Persecution complex

o Label and treat opposition as evil enemies ("Antis", "Suppressive Persons")

[restornu]

Reagan Son Claims Dad Had Alzheimer’s as President

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2656951/posts

[Elsie]

Who ARE you?

And why does RESTY let you use her FR account?

[Elsie]

why do the heathen rage?

[Elsie]

Reagan Son Claims Dad Had Alzheimer’s as President

Joseph Smith 'claims' that he 'learned' that PRESBYTERIANism was 'untrue'.

[svcw]

Well, duh? Anyone with a brain knows Jr is a nut. What is your point?
Your continued statements about Jr has nothing to do with the fact Scientology and mormonISM are similar in nature.

[restornu]

You are stuck in a world in which you are trying to earn your exaltation. You are trying to work your way to God.

***

Another bag of silliness...

You very words rickomatic, marginalized and denouce the scriptures!

As you mock and poke fun at the LDS as being gulliblee etc

And those who strive to keep their covenants in your mind is different from what the Lord has taught and also asked those who are his to do the Lord’s will.

Psalm 78 Israel to teach the Lord’s law to their children

5 For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:

6 That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children:

7 That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments:

8 And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.

9 The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle.

10 They kept not the covenant of God, and refused to walk in his law;

11 And forgat his works, and his wonders that he had shewed them.

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

1 Tim 6

12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;

14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

1 John 2

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

1 Jn. 5

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

John 21

16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

[rickomatic]

Quick question for clarification, resty. Are you saved by the shed blood of Christ alone. Or do you also have to do works along with that to reach exaltation? It is my understanding that Christ’s shed blood is only part of one’s atonement in LDS theology. Am I incorrect in believing that? Good works naturally flow from one who is truly saved by the shed blood of Christ. But there is no teaching in scripture that says that works must be added to that for salvation. As a matter of fact, Paul’s letter to the Galations addresses this completly.
To rely on one’s works, or righteousness, if you will is to diminish God’s grace. Our righteousness in fact, is as filthy rags in God’s eyes.
Do we repent of our sins and try our best not to sin again as born again Christians? Of course we do. But we do not do it to “insure” our salvation, because our salvation is only through the shed blood of Christ. Nothing more, and nothing less. See Galations 2:21 Praise God.

[rickomatic]

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Resty. I am a sorrowful sinner, saved by the grace of God through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. I was born a sinner, and will die a sinner. I cannot keep the commandments 100% of the time. Do YOU? If not, then you are just as much of a sinner as I am, because the word says that if we are guilty of even one sin, then we are guilty of all of them. God does not grade on the curve. It is pass fail. Thankfully God made a way for us. "For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I know you're sincere, Resty. But my friend, you too are sincerely deceived, just as PD is. The theology of Joseph Smith is one of salvation through works. There is absolutely no arguement in that. God presents you salvation as a gift. You cannot give yourself a gift. You must only accept it.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith;and that not of yourselves;it is the gift of God:Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship,created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

[restornu]

Quick question for clarification, resty. Are you saved by the shed blood of Christ alone.

***

Yes!

[restornu]

Do we repent of our sins and try our best not to sin again as born again Christians? Of course we do.

***

We are a work in progress.

[restornu]

Works has nothing to do with being saved!

[Paragon Defender]

My friend you are buying in to the anti-Mormon propaganda. Plain and simple. Don’t be a lemming. Listen to what you said. It’s just wrong on so many levels.

The truth is there if you sincerely seek it. It’s not the haystack the anti’s present it as. You have to want to know though. No one can do it for you.

[SZonian]

Saved is one thing, the quest for exaltation in mormonism is another altogether different thing.

You need to be aware of the mormon vs. Christian definitions.

http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/basic_mormon_doctrine/glossary/biblical_terms.htm

The Mormon church teaches two kinds of salvation, neither of which can be found in the Bible. One of these kinds of salvation is an unconditional or general salvation which comes by grace alone without any obedience to gospel law and consists in the mere fact of being resurrected after death. The Latter Day Saint believes that all people will automatically be resurrected from the grave. This convenient belief down plays the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. They choose to believe in different levels of heaven or glory rather than in the existence of a hell, therefore the savior would seem to be of no real importance.

The second kind of salvation taught by the Mormon Church is a conditional or individual salvation. This salvation also comes by grace, but requires gospel obedience, is based on works and consists of reaching a higher level of heaven, the highest being the Celestial Kingdom of God.

//snip//

http://contenderministries.org/mormonism/know.php

[MHGinTN]

Elsie, I think it’s time for your list of quotes from LDS leadership who have placed Smith between men and getting into Heaven ... and I don’t recall any of them specifying which ;evel of ‘kingdom’ Smith will be checking entrants for. The sophistry is getting rather thick seeking to mislead rickomatic.

[Elsie]

As you mock and poke fun at the LDS as being gulliblee etc

DUH!

[Elsie]

YES!

 

 

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"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

 

 

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

 

 

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

 

 

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

 

 

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

 - Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

 

 

 

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

 - Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

 

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They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

 Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

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Dear Reader: what does it sound like to YOU?

[Elsie]

Works has nothing to do with being saved!

You are ALMOST out of MORMONism!   (See #3!!)

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Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.

They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

 

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

 

[SZonian]

YES! Don’t be a “lemming”. Dont’ buy into the mormon propaganda!

Listen to the “prophets”, who listen to paid mormon “archaeologists”, they’re not going to lie, that would just “be wrong on so many levels”. /s

http://www.whyfaith.com/book-of-abraham-analysis/

FTA [FTA= “From the article”. Thought I’d clear that up for you since you attempted to attribute the authors thoughts to me in your previous post.]:

Final Thoughts
Even if we were to accept the argument that these are, somehow, not the papyri that Smith used to translate the BoA, we are left with a seemingly implausible situation. Namely that among the traditional Egyptian funeral documents such as the Book of Breathings that were buried with mummies were also tucked in the only remaining copies of documents containing the secret writings of Abraham and Joseph. Not only that, but we would also have to believe that the early Mormon church managed to carefully preserve only those portions of the papyri that were NOT part of the Book of Abraham or Joseph; that is, they preserved only part of the pagan burial texts and none used to for the actual translations! That does not seem at all plausible.

{S}myth busted!

[Elsie]

It’s just wrong on so many levels.

Then a rational MORMON could PROVE it!

[Elsie]

GMTA!!