Biblically Optimistic and Gospel-Based
"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22)
Posted on 01/15/2011 8:05:51 AM PST by topcat54
"The Roots of Fundamentalism," by Ernest R. Sandeen, in discussing the history of the Brethren, says that [John Nelson] Darby introduced the idea of a secret rapture of the church and a gap in prophetic fulfillment between the 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel. These beliefs became basic to the system of theology known as dispensationalism.
From 1862 to 1877, Darby lived in and traveled throughout the United States and Canada, spreading his message. He was a very appealing speaker and also intolerant to criticism. At first he tried to win members of existing Protestant congregations to his sect, but met with little success. He then spread his end-times message to influential clergymen and laymen in churches in major cities without insisting they leave their denominations.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformed-theology.org ...
I’m usually pretty happy. Then the Trib shows up on my driveway, and I’m ticked for a couple of hours.
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Well since the Tribulation has already occurred, it’s pretty much a mute point.
Uh. No.
I used to throw the Trib as a kid - often, substituting for a friend with the Sun Times also...
For those who won’t take the time to read the source:
“Following is a brief explanation, summarized from the book, describing how we got the doctrine.
To understand, we must return to the 19th century British Isles. In 1830 in Port Glasgow, Scotland, Margaret Macdonald expressed her belief that scripture taught that Christians would be raptured, or translated, from the earth before the Great Tribulation. This is the first time that anyone in Christian history had distinguished two stages of the Second Coming: the first stage, in which Christians are taken out, and the second stage, in which Jesus returns to earth.”
It started with Margaret Macdonald (who is????). I grew up in a Schofield Independent Baptist church and went to a Calvinist college, thank God. Now when I read the Bible I know to never take it apart, but read it as a whole. Especially in this regard. I am a post-tribulationist and believe the first resurrection will occur at the end of the tribulation as is explicitly stated in Revelation.
What?? We missed it?. What about that thousand year thingy? And you misspelled moot to boot. So many questions about your (mis)statement.
This whole Trib thing is somehow connected to the Cubs winning a World Series, no?
It was my father, who died a Baptist, who first exposed me to the origins of this man made teaching. It is interesting that it was not presented to a church council, but more or less peddled to whatever customers would buy it.
I never pressed him to consider what else in the dispenastionalist system might be suspect, due to his declining health. He never knew it, this side of the grave, but this began my questioning of what I had believed all my life and my journey into the one, holy and apostolic catholic Church.
I
One thing I think all pre-millenial, a-millenial, and post-millenial believing Christians, as well as all Jews, Bhuddists and even most atheists can agree upon is that the Cubs will never win the World Series.
Because humans love the concept of “no consequences”.
Christ died for our sins, which unlocked the doors to heaven.
Conflating this with the notion that our belief in this truth exempts us from all consequences for our actions, is naive.
Rev 21:27 “...nothing unclean shall enter heaven”
Matt 5:26 “”...you will not be released until the last penny is paid”
1 Cor 3:15 “...suffer loss, but saved as through fire”
(from one of those Catholics who’s never seen a Bible..../sarc)
Now you’ve gone and done it. You played the ‘Catholic’ Card. Now we’re gonna have Catholics and Baptists posting on the same thread! The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Assuredly, I say, the end must be near!
Text taken out of context is a pretext.
"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22)
Is there something in the fuller text you’d like to disagree with?
I don’t expect to change YOUR mind.
I do expect your to acknowledge that I have a Biblical basis for my belief.
But don’t you understand that there are many who believe that they carry a get out of hell free card and are therefore not responsible for anything that they do or don’t do, and their attitude and conduct is irrelevant.
The air conditioned limousine will conduct them in comfort from their LaZBoy directly to Heaven. How do they know this? One of the oldest heresies declared by the Church - Gnosticism - is back with a vengeance, simply because it appeals to the basest desire in man.
Well, you got half of it right. Care to look into Paul a little bit more. Don’t stop now.
Trouble is, you have %100 believe in about %30 of the scripture on this subject. Doesn’t mean you wont go to heaven, it just means you are only half dressed for the voyage.
You respond to my specifics with a generality?
Here’s some more from Paul:
Romans 11:22 - remain in his kindness or you will be cut off
Phil 2:12- work out your salvation in fear and trembling
1 Cor 9:27 - drive your body for fear of being disqualified
1 Cor 10:11-12 - those thinking they are secure,the may fall
Gal 5:4 - separated from Christ, you’ve fallen from grace
2 Tim 2:11-13 - must hold out to the end to reign with Christ
Happy yet?
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