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To: MarkBsnr; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg
Mark: Earlier, you tried to make the point that Luther believed in double predestination. My point was that Luther never did. It was brewed in Calvin's cauldron, not Luther's.

Let's ask a lutheran -- xzins, did Luther believe in double-predestination?

I know that The LCMS website confirms that it does not believe that Scripture teaches a predestination to damnation: God desires all to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:3-4).) and Dr. Eck things that this is evidence that the liberal church teaching of free will has infected the Lutherans, too, in contradiction to what Martin Luther taught from Scripture.
2,919 posted on 02/02/2011 1:48:45 PM PST by Cronos
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To: Cronos
Let's ask a lutheran -- xzins, did Luther believe in double-predestination?

Well, how does this sound? It is from Luther's Bondage of the Will, Section X.
"God foreknows nothing contingently, but foresees, and purposes, and accomplishes every thing, by an unchangeable, eternal, and infallible will. But, by this thunderbolt, Freewill is struck to the earth and completely ground to powder. Those who would assert Freewill, therefore, must either deny, or disguise, or, by some other means, repel this thunderbolt from them."

"Hence it irresistibly follows, that all which we do, and all which happens, although it seem to happen mutably and contingently, does in reality happen necessarily and unalterably, insofar as respects the will of God. For the will of God is efficacious, and such as cannot be thwarted; since the power of God is itself a part of his nature: it is also wise, so that it cannot be misled. And since his will is not thwarted, the work which he wills cannot be prevented ; but must be produced in the very place, time, and measure which he himself both foresees and wills."

"If God does not foreknow all events absolutely, there must be defect either in his will, or in his knowledge ; what happens must either be against his will, or beside his knowledge. Either he meant otherwise than the event, or had no meaning at all about the event, or foresaw another event, or did not foresee any event at all. But the truth is, what he willed in past eternity, he wills now; the thing now executed is what he has intended to execute from everlasting; for his will is eternal: just as the thing which has now happened is what he saw in past eternity; because his knowledge is eternal."

2,929 posted on 02/02/2011 2:57:00 PM PST by aruanan
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To: Cronos; MarkBsnr; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg

Ask a lutheran....sorry, guys, I’m a Methodist.


3,058 posted on 02/03/2011 5:37:46 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain & proud of it: Truly Supporting the Troops means praying for their Victory!)
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