Posted on 01/14/2011 5:57:52 PM PST by topcat54
Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformed.org ...
I'm always hesitant to have any conversation with anyone that proudly proclaims they have the truth, let alone some one who might humbly proclaim it. Either way whether they proudly proclaim it, or humbly proclaim it I'm pretty suspicious of people like that, next thing you know they will be inviting you to a some strange tent meeting, asking you for your money while dancing around singing some praise god, praise god dance as if they are in some drug induced happy time. And with all the Churches in this country you think they could find a Church instead of a tent. kind of makes one suspicious of them all.
This thread is hilarious.
Why don’t you just go to where you can read the book yourself like I did. You’re beginning to look a little lame hoping with your assumptions of where I get my information. Here’s another site for you.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html
>> See the tribulation is NOT of flesh and blood but the deception of a fake supernatural being pretending to be Jesus.<<
So you believe that Revelation is only metaphor?
1Cor 15
22
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
35
But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36
Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
42
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
We will have to die to be in what is called the rapture. even Jesus died but many people do not want to die but they want to go to heaven as they are, and we can see how popular that would be to people who were new to the truth.
Make merchandise out of the gospel and watch the money role in.
Here is yet another source to read Irenaeus book 5. Just to show there are multiple sources for real research when one cares for truth.
http://www.ecmarsh.com/crl/fathers/heresies_5.htm
I’m always hesitant to have any conversation with anyone that proudly proclaims they have the truth
“A lot of US churches teach a version of the rapture that leads many suburbanites to believe that they will go straight from their air-conditioned houses or their air-conditioned SUVs to heaven.”
That is the best line I’ve read yet.
Wanting Christ without the Cross makes God sound like the purveyor of jelly-belly beans and unicorns.
Before I depart this thread let me give two suggested interruptions to Irenaeus statement for first is basically what you guys hold and that is and I quote for a book I'll mention at the end of this post. Here is the quote ""Did Irenaeus mean: "the Revelation was seen in a vision by John almost in our generation"? This is the commonly accepted view
or was he saying "John, who saw the Revelation, was seen alive almost in our generation"? This is a grammatically possible view--one which I hold to be preferable."<----end of quote. The quotes or Quotes came from "The Beast of Revelation by Dr. Kenneth Gentry, a good book at least us post mills think it is, I know you premill would condemn it and burn it just like the Nazi burn unauthorized books.
Oh I hold to the second view, John was seen alive in our generation. He did live a long life even though the Romans tried to kill him several time.
Oh I probably won't be coming back to this thread, I can not spend to much time freeping on FR and get other stuff done.
So is your sources the truth but if we post our sources they are false sources. Boy you premill’s really are humble people. < /s>
So you accuse others of using only books supporting their view then do the same yourself? Just wow!
“Truthfully I say to you, Today you will be with me in Paradise; your faith has saved you.”
There was no punctuation in the original writings; the emphasis could have, and most likely was, a common AFTER the word ‘today’. To then read “Truthfully I say to you today, you will be with me in Paradise...”
We know that no ‘dead’ are with Christ yet as the Bible says upon His return ‘the dead in Christ will rise first’.
Believers are raptured upon Christ’s return so that we are not destroyed along with the evil ones. There’s very much a purpose of being raptured, just not in a secret way, 7 yrs before Christ’s return.
>> This is a grammatically possible view—one which I hold to be preferable<<
“it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian’s reign.”
“who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day,” The apocalyptic vision was seen. You can’t distort that to fit your view.
There is no way to grammatically change the meaning of that portion of what Irenaeus wrote. Do try to do so is deceit and grammatical illiteracy. It’s “for that was seen” referring to the vision. NOT “for he was seen”.
Going through the Tribulation would ensure that believers are going to be destroyed along with the evil ones between the judgments of God and the mark of the beast thing.
Unless you hold that God's judgments are going to hit only unbelievers but I don't see anything in Scripture that supports that.
Besides, I don't see anything indicating the Rapture is going to be secret. You don't think people are not going to notice millions of people missing?
I have never heard that put so well.
OK. Scripture?
Thanks.
Or that it won't happen in their lifetime as they have been predicting for so long.
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