Posted on 01/14/2011 5:57:52 PM PST by topcat54
Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformed.org ...
Let’s look at what St. Cyril of Jerusalem said. “Therefore, it is with complete assurance that we receive the bread and wine as the body and blood of Christ. His body is given to us under the symbol of bread, and his blood is given to us under the symbol of wine, in order to make us by receiving them one body and blood with him. Having his body and blood in our members, we become bearers of Christ and sharers, as Saint Peter says, in the divine nature.”
St. Cyril of Jerusalem, was bishop of Jerusalem in the middle of the fourth century and one of the most important sources we have for how the early church celebrated the sacraments during this era as well as what the early Church believed about the sacraments.
i haven’t been here long, but it is becoming clear to me that some who claim they used to be Catholic, can not possibly be true when looking at their questions, which reveal absolutely no knowledge of Catholic doctrine!! and they can’t answer any questions put to them about Catholic teaching, unreal!
That is between them and God. You only presume to know their hearts, their repentance and their contrition. You are not here to judge and would do well to worry about your own Salvation.
So, you're giving up the pope stuff?
Good. That's a start.
Pretty soon, like Luther and Calvin, you will see that it's Jesus only and salvation is by grace through faith in Him alone.
None of this extraneous praying to dead people and buying indulgences stuff any more.
nice try, St Cyril was Catholic and taught the Real Presence, one example:
I ran across these texts by St Cyril of Jerusalem in his Catechetical Lectures regarding the Eucharist. Recently some “Reformed” Protestants have used his writings to try and support their heresy of Sola Scriptura. In reading the texts in full context, I found no evidence of this whatsoever. In doing this research I ran across these texts pertaining to the Eucharist. Let me ask this simple question. Without applying any sophistry to the texts, who does St. Cyril appear to be in line with concerning Eucharistic doctrine? The Protestants or the Catholic and Orthodox Churches?
7. Moreover, the things which are hung up at idol festivals , either meat or bread, or other such things polluted by the invocation of the unclean spirits, are reckoned in the pomp of the devil. For as the Bread and Wine of the Eucharist before the invocation of the Holy and Adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, while after the invocation the Bread becomes the Body of Christ, and the Wine the Blood of Christ , so in like manner such meats belonging to the pomp of Satan, though in their own nature simple, become profane by the invocation of the evil spirit.
(no 7 from Lecture 19)
1. Even of itself the teaching of the Blessed Paul is sufficient to give you a full assurance concerning those Divine Mysteries, of which having been deemed worthy, you have become of the same body and blood with Christ. For you have just heard him say distinctly, That our Lord Jesus Christ in the night in which He was betrayed, took bread, and when He had given thanks He broke it, and gave to His disciples, saying, Take, eat, this is My Body: and having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, Take, drink, this is My Blood. Since then He Himself declared and said of the Bread, This is My Body, who shall dare to doubt any longer? And since He has Himself affirmed and said, This is My Blood, who shall ever hesitate, saying, that it is not His blood? (no 1 from lecture 22)
6. Consider therefore the Bread and the Wine not as bare elements, for they are, according to the Lord’s declaration, the Body and Blood of Christ; for even though sense suggests this to you, yet let faith establish you. Judge not the matter from the taste, but from faith be fully assured without misgiving, that the Body and Blood of Christ have been vouchsafed to you. (No6 from lecture 22)
9. Having learned these things, and been fully assured that the seeming bread is not bread, though sensible to taste, but the Body of Christ; and that the seeming wine is not wine, though the taste will have it so, but the Blood of Christ ; and that of this David sung of old, saying, And bread strengthens man’s heart, to make his face to shine with oil , “strengthen your heart,” by partaking thereof as spiritual, and “make the face of your soul to shine.” And so having it unveiled with a pure conscience, may you reflect as a mirror the glory of the Lord 2 Corinthians 3:18, and proceed from glory to glory, in Christ Jesus our Lord:— To whom be honour, and might, and glory, for ever and ever. Amen. (No 9 lecture 22)
For the sake of space I did not put the entire letters here. But here is the link to lecture 22 in its entirety so you can read it for yourself in full context, which I always encourage everyone to do for themselves. Many times I have read these “reformed” apologists on the internet mocking the Catholic teaching on the Eucharist telling us that it is obvious by our senses that it is not the real Body and Blood of Our Lord. Well, here we have one of their favorite Church Fathers that they quote twisting his words, telling them, “Consider therefore the Bread and the Wine not as bare elements, for they are, according to the Lord’s declaration, the Body and Blood of Christ; for even though sense suggests this to you, yet let faith establish you. Judge not the matter from the taste, but from faith be fully assured without misgiving, that the Body and Blood of Christ have been vouchsafed to you. Not only is Saint Cyril not a friend to their position of Scripture Alone, but he is also not a friend to their
So we are pretty much in agreement that he didn't speak modern English. What language did St. Cyril write that in and what are the possible translations into modern English? Call me cynical, Bear.
we are making progress, Bear is reading the Fathers!!!
I find it hard to understand how an infant could be made s disciple and thus qualify for baptism.
you don’t understand Baptism, i’ll put you in the baptist column, they are winning 2-0, no lutherans out there?
let’s see you quote some 4th century non-Catholic Christians, you know, the non-pagan ones!
Peter declared, "Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children" (Acts 2:38–39).
The Church baptized whole "households" (Acts 16:33; 1 Cor. 1:16), a term encompassing children and infants as well as servants. While these texts do not specifically mention—nor exclude—infants, the very use of the term "households" indicates an understanding of the family as a unit.
Now you need to answer a question. Find scriptural proof of the assumption of Mary. If you don’t, please don’t throw straw men around asking questions of us.
he taugJERUSALEM CATECHIST AND CONFESSOR
With the guarantee of religious tolerance, granted in 313 by Constantine with the Edict of Milan, a new chapter opened in the history of the Church. Along the smoother path more people were attracted to the doors of the Church, spurring its growth and bringing new challenges. Unlike the early Christians, who fully expected their faith to be tried by fire or the sword, these newcomers were not always inspired by burning convictions: a pagan husband might approach the font at the urging of his believing wife, a servant-to curry favor with his believing master; as the practice of infant baptism grew, so did the ranks of younger generations who had not themselves made a conscious profession of faith. To properly initiate these candidates into the mysteries of the Faith was no small task. The difficulty was compounded by troubles brewing within the Church itself. Attacks from without had not yet subsided when, in 318, the Arian heresy erupted. Although it was condemned in 325 by the First Ecumenical Council, it was only towards the end of the century that its proponents were finally forced to cease their divisive maneuverings. It was essential, therefore, that recruits be adequately equipped with sound doctrine and other spiritual armor before they could be expected to conduct themselves as true soldiers of Christ. Among those who shouldered this responsibility, one of the most gifted was St. Cyril of Jerusalem. To this day, his Catechetical Lectures provide a concise course par excellence in the fundamentals of Orthodox doctrine.
For a renowned Church Father, St. Cyril’s Life is constructed on surprisingly meager details. According to the Greek Menaion, Cyril was “born of pious parents, professing the orthodox Faith, and to have been bred up in the same, in the reign of Constantine.” The year of his birth is generally given as 315 and the location in or around Jerusalem, for it was customary to choose a bishop from among the local clergy, a man already known and respected by the people over whom he would assume spiritual authority. His youth coincided with the height of Arian domination and the rediscovery of the Holy Sepulchre in 326, when Jerusalem, a relatively poor community, began moving into prominence. In 335 Constantine’s magnificent Church of the Resurrection was dedicated and Cyril, a new deacon, undoubtedly took part in the ceremonies. The principal celebrants were Arians, who had just deposed their vigorous opponent, St. Athanasius, in a council at Tyre. The Church at Jerusalem, however, never embraced Arianism. Bishop Macarius, and his successor Maximus who ordained Cyril to the priesthood in 345, were both staunchly Nicaean. And when, on Maximus’ death in 350, Cyril succeeded him as bishop, he continued to guide the Church at Jerusalem from this position.
Meanwhile, Bishop Acacius of neighboring Caesarea had been drawn into the Arian camp. This conflict between the two hierarchs was sharpened by the resentment Acacius felt when Cyril disputed Caesarea’s jurisdiction over Jerusalem, now an established center of pilgrimage and sprouting monastic communities. In 357 Acacius successfully maneuvered to have Cyril deposed. Banished for two years, Cyril went to Tarsus, where he associated with Basil of Ancyra, a champion of Nicaea. There, too, he won the hearts of the people with his preaching. Cyril was banished a second time in 360, returning after the accession of Julian in 361, when all exiled bishops were recalled. Nothing is known of his third period of banishment, from 367 to 378, under the Arian Emperor Valens. In 381 Cyril went to Constantinople as one of 150 Church Fathers who took part in the Second Ecumenical Council. He died peacefully on March 18, 386, remembered by the Church as a great ascetic and uncompromising champion of the true Faith. St. Cyril’s principle claim to fame, however, rests on his catechetical lectures. These form a systematic course of instruction which he developed as a priest assigned to prepare candidates for baptism. Essentially practical, highly biblical, direct and noble in tone, they reflect St. Cyril’s sincere pastoral concern. Their primary purpose is not to discuss or examine, nor to defend, but to impart knowledge of the Faith. Very striking here is the thoroughness of this preparation and the seriousness with which entry into the Church was regarded. Even before being made catechumens, candidates were strictly examined as to their character, belief and sincerity of purpose. The probationary period varied, lasting about two years.
At the heart of these lectures is a perfectly balanced emphasis on God’s transcendence and the ineffable wonder and dignity of the heavenly citizenship conferred through Baptism on the one hand, and man’s essential responsibility for genuine repentance and good works on the other. St. Cyril skillfully prepares his listeners in his Introductory Lecture, by turns sobering and exalting, which emphasizes at the outset the need for a sustained purpose. Taken from this lecture, the following passages are characteristic of the Saint’s teaching.
§ He lieth not who said, that to them that love God all things work together for good. God is lavish in beneficence, yet He waits for each man’s genuine will: therefore the Apostle added and said, to them that are called according to a purpose (Rom. 8:28). The honesty of purpose makes thee called: for if thy body be here but not thy mind, it profiteth thee nothing..
§ Let none of you be found tempting His grace.
§ ...beware lest thou have the title of “faithful” but the will of the faithless. Thou hast entered into a contest, toil on through the race: another such opportunity thou canst not have.
§ Attend closely to the catechisings, and though we should prolong our discourse, let not thy mind be wearied out. For thou art receiving armor against the adverse power, armor against heresies... Thou hast many enemies; take to thee many darts, for thou hast many to hurl them at... And the armor is ready, and most ready the sword of the Spirit; but thou also must stretch forth thy right hand with good resolution, that thou mayest war the Lord’s warfare.
§ Great is the Baptism that lies before you: a ransom to captives; a remission of offences; a death of sin; a new-birth of the soul; a garment of light; a holy indissoluble seal; a chariot to heaven; the delight of Paradise; a welcome into the kingdom; the gift of adoption! But there is a serpent by the wayside watching those who pass by: beware lest he bite thee with unbelief...
§ We for our part as men charge and teach you thus: but make not yet our building hay and stubble and chaff, lest we suffer loss, from our work being burnt up: but make ye our work gold and silver, and precious stones! For it lies in me to speak, but in thee to set thy mind upon it, and in God to make perfect.
The first two lectures stress the need for thorough repentance and hope in the remission of sins: “Cleanse thy vessel that thou mayest receive grace more abundantly ...thorny ground also, if cultivated well, is turned fruitful.” In the third lecture, “On Baptism”, St. Cyril impresses on his audience that “this is no light matter, no ordinary and indiscriminate union according to the flesh, but the All-searching Spirit’s election according to faith...Each one of you is about to be presented to God before tens of thousands of the Angelic Hosts: the Holy Spirit is about to seal your souls: ye are to be enrolled in the army of the Great King. Therefore make you ready...that thou mayest become an heir of God, and joint-heir with Christ.”
The next lecture provides “a short summary of necessary doctrines,” carrying brief statements concerning the Oneness of God, Christ as the Only-begotten Son, His Birth of the Virgin, the Cross, His Burial, Resurrection and Ascension, the Judgment to Come, the Soul (”the noblest work of God”), the Body, Fasting, Baptism, the Scriptures. Following another general lecture, “On Faith,” St. Cyril launches into a series of thirteen lectures explaining in greater detail the successive articles of the Jerusalem Creed, which the candidates were required to recite by memory at the time of their baptism.
A second series of five lectures was delivered on Bright Monday to the newly-baptized. Here the Saint initiates them, as it were, into the knowledge of those rites which they have experienced for themselves for the first time, having been strictly required as catechumens to leave the church after the reading of the Gospel and the exclamation, “Catechumens, depart!” The Saint explains to his “true-born” listeners the actual rites of baptism and chrismation, the Eucharist and the Liturgy of the Faithful, with particular attention to the Lord’s Prayer. His joy at thus welcoming the new Christians is unmistakable. These five lectures are particularly valuable to us today in documenting the liturgical practices of the early Church, providing stunning evidence of Orthodoxy’s ancient liturgical roots. Indeed, it is thrilling to read a fourth-century text that so closely accords with our experience today.
The lectures give one to understand that the course was not limited to candidates for baptism. Those already baptized also came to be edified. Even today, these lectures should be required study for potential converts, while those of us who are already baptized would likewise do well to avail ourselves of these clear streams of living water, to strengthen our faith with knowledge and refresh our sense of awe at the great mystery of our salvation. We owe a great debt to St. Cyril who, through laboring on these lectures, found lasting favor with God and man.
If you would like to to read St. Cyril’s Catechical Lectures for yourself, you can find them at The Christian Classics Library. (opens a new window)
[../../_private/oabot.htm] ht baptismal regeneration as well!
It’s not hard to figure if you think that baptism is what saves you.
If baptism is the mode or salvation, then faith isn’t important, and you can’t ex-communicate yourself by works, since you’ve been sprinkled or dipped.
Funny, isn’t it? When it comes to communion, the eucharist is only good as long as it’s in your body. But baptism is forever.
And what you eat is metabolized by your body and becomes part of it while water just gets you wet until it dries and /or is washed off.
That must mean that baptism is more powerful than Jesus since it’s more permanent.
No, I understand what the Roman Catholic Church means by the term, but, in light of the authority enumerated and implied by saying someone is the "Vicar of Christ" and his representative on earth, obedience is demanded regardless of "highly stringent requirements" of ex-cathedra pronouncements. Just like the statements I quoted later where even if the Pope was Satan himself, a faithful Catholic should obey him. Don't you agree that is taking the idea a bit too far?
let’s let the Bible answer:
1 Peter 3:21
again, no understanding of Catholic doctrine, Eucharist is only as good as it is in your body!! Oh brother!
Questions for one Lord one faith one baptism
1. “God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is his will, that we obtain everything through Mary.” (Pius IX: Encycl., Ubi primum, February 2, 1849.) — [p. 12, number 12]
Question: Jesus never taught His disciple to teach that Salvation was through Mary. When did that change?
2. “O Virgin most holy, none abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; none, O Mother of God, obtains salvation except through thee, none receives a gift from the throne of mercy except through thee.” (Leo XIII: Encycl., Adiutricem populi, September 5, 1895.) — [p. 12, no. 13]
Question: Did Jesus deceive His disciples in the following verse?
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6
3. “With equal truth it may be said that of the great treasury of all graces given to us by Our Lord—for grace and truth came by Jesus Christ—nothing comes to us except through Mary’s mediation, for such is God’s Will. Thus, as no man goes to the Father but by the Son, so no one goes to Christ except through his mother.” (Leo XIII, Encycl., Octobri mense, September 22, 1891.) — [pp. 13,14, no. 19]
Question: If that is true why did Jesus and the Apostles not tell those who they wrote to and preached to?
want to take a crack at post #492, lutherans are losing 2-0.
Firstly, try getting the name correct. Secondly, consider the size of the claim that you have posted. Do you wonder why many of us find such levity in your posts?
No, I would not come to that conclusion because I am quite sure that most everywhere there are genuine born-again believers in Jesus Christ. I believe those that are truly in Christ will know the difference because of the presence of the Holy Spirit within them. What is shocking is that some, out of a misguided sense of total obedience, will follow him right into the pit of hell. I pray that those who sincerely seek God's truth will find it and not fall prey to the devil's wiles.
Nice cut and paste but nothing in it addressed the post you were responding to. If you can’t address the post don’t bother. Succinct is good.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.