Posted on 01/14/2011 5:57:52 PM PST by topcat54
Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformed.org ...
Matthew 28, teach!!!
since we have called ourselves “Catholic” about six times longer than the USA has been in existence, i think we’ll keep the name because it fits!!
What did the Fathers teach about baptismal regeneration, infant baptism, the Eucharist, the Sacrifice of the Mass, the Catholic Church, the priesthood, apostolic succession, etc, etc....??
You're using Dave MacPherson as some kind of authority? You're not serious are you?
Aside from the fact that MacPherson denies the clear teaching of Scripture that there will be an event commonly known as the Rapture, his biography reads like a character out of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". This all adds up to a person with no credibility who sounds like he needs several decades of therapy. Then there's the little nugget of the fact that Margaret McDonald's vision which she claimed to be of the Rapture was completely and totally in error and bears no similarity at all to the detail of this event in the Bible.
So we have two conflicting positions here. I think I'll go with the one who has his sanity and who hasn't denied Scripture.
i’ve given you the verse before, but you don’t believe it, even though it’s from the KJV!
2 Thessalonians 2:15, let’s read it all together,
“So then brethern, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter”
End of discussion —— The Church has held these traditions because they received them from the Apostles and were instructed to!! It would be going against Scripture to drop them!! Does St. Paul say “ do not believe any teaching unless i or another Apostles writes it down first” NO, NO, NO, a 1,000 times NO. But, there are those that follow the 16th century tradition of men. I’ll stick with St. Paul!
You cannot deal with the man’s facts, so you calumniate against his character. I’ll take that as your admission of defeat.
The fact is, you're using the words of someone who has spent a majority of his life denying the inerrant word of the living God, who has wasted his short time on this earth attempting to turn as many people away from the truth of Scripture as he can and causing as many to doubt God as he can, and who has demonstrated some serious mental health issues as some sort of "proof" that God is less than truthful in the Scripture He wrote that tells us of the time when He takes His true Church to be with Him before He judges the earth.
If you want to believe someone like that, even when he is proven wrong not only with the facts but with the Bible, you go right ahead. We all will stand before God and give an account of every aspect of our lives including what we chose to believe, the truth we were given during the course of our lives, and what we did with that truth. We will be judged according to the Scriptures that many people feel they have the omniscience and omnipresence to deny and declare are lies.
If you want to be one who chooses to believe a ranting, raving lunatic like Dave MacPherson over Jesus Christ, be my guest. And if you want to think you've "won" something based on your own gullibility and unfortunate choices, by all means go right ahead.
What traditions was Paul referring to that HE passed down to the believers at the churches to which he wrote?
How do you know what they were? Who did he pass them down to? Where is that recorded?
What is your source for the information?
Absolutely St Paul’s theology is an accurate teaching of the Catholic Church’s!!! That’s why we proclaim him a saint and a martyr and placed all his surviving Epistles in the canon of Scripture. The Church only approved those books whose theology matched what was accepted Catholic doctrine received from the Apostles, one of whom was St Paul. You claim to love the Bible, you really should study how the Church determined the canon of Scripture, but i need to warn you first, you will find the word “Tradition” in the story!!
This is why Jesus commissioned the Church to teach!!! Then you would know the answers to your questions. Jesus never said give everyone a copy of the Scriptures and then let them all figure it out for themselves, did He???
"14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it 15and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
He didn't really mean JUST Scripture? He meant that Scripture wasn't good enough on its own when he said that?
Where's the mention of tradition? Maybe he forgot it?
i’ll give you one, infant baptism. All the Church Fathers say the Church received the practice of baptizing infants from the Apostles, but there is not a verse explicitly saying so. Protestants are divided on this! Is infant baptism correct or not? You don’t know, you by yourself can’t know, unless you believe yourself infallible!! I can get a Lutheran say yes, a Baptist says no! Both will claim to follow “sola scriptura” no friend, Jesus is not the author of confusion, He left us a Church to teach!!
yes, it doesn’t say “just scripture” does it? besides, the “scripture” he is referring to is the OT. I gave you a verse that tells you to hold to the tradition, do you?
Dave MacPherson has provided irrefutable evidence exposing the lies used to support the novel and heretical pre-tribulation rapture theory. The calumniation against MacPherson’s character by pre-trib partisans only confirms he has hit the mark.
“continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you have learned it” Did Timothy only believed the doctrines Paul wrote down or is he referring to all he taught Timothy while they travelled together and spent probably years talking together? Sometimes a little common sense will go a long way!
What specifically are the *traditions* which Paul passed on to the believers he was writing to and how do you know?
What are your sources?
i gave you one in #492, who is right, the “sola scriptura” Lutheran or the “sola scriptura” Baptist? Baptism is a major article of faith for the Christian correct? Do you flip a coin, figure you have a 50% chance of being right?
Paul is a pillar of Catholic faith. The kooks and loons are those who follow a distorted interpretation of Paul's words and have sought to usurp the primacy of the Word of Christ with Paul's Gospel.
Sources?
The Sacred Scriptures testify to the Church and Sacred Tradition. The Church testifies to Sacred Scriptures and Sacred Tradition. Sacred Tradition testifies to the Church and Sacred Scriptures. Leave anyone of these three out, and watch the false teaching fly!!
they were even doing in St Peter’s time!
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