Posted on 01/14/2011 5:57:52 PM PST by topcat54
Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformed.org ...
ABSOLUTELY INDEED
And masterfully done, as usual.
Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dear sister in Christ!
I do not recall Kosta comparing God to a pink unicorn. Can you please indicate a post?
For that reason I am pinging a bunch of other posters who have - despite all their disagreements (50/50 Catholic, Non-Catholic) - agreed on "Who" God IS.
On a reply, I do not have all the original list of posters. Would you also ping them to this please? I would be interested to know if your claim is correct - that they all agree on "Who" God IS.
Romans 11 makes the link clear. Your concern about validity should be taken up with God and your church leaders who canonized Paul's epistles.
Nowhere in the OT is this idea even put forth. Nowhere. Paul's statement merely takes an OT statement and piles Christianity upon it without any validity whatsoever. God does not tell the Jews that the Gentiles will be saved because of their own unbelief and their own disobedience.
For those of you invited to this sidebar, MarkBsnr's contention is that God failed to convert the Jews. Mine is that God does not fail - it was God's will, it was prophesied in the Song of Moses:
You are linking NT explanations of OT statements that are completely unrelated. Deuteronomy never predicted that the Gentiles would be grafted into the Jewish vine.
The Song of Moses is sung along with the Song of the Lamb:
This is not OT. It is a NT overlay only. If you wish to quote NT ideas and beliefs that I hold as well, please do. But don't try to make the OT say what it does not.
That last part, the warning against "boasting against the branches" is also a prophecy. Some may say that is why the Reformation happened. Others may say that is a prophecy against any belief that God has abandoned the offspring of Israel.
Some also say that the Reformation and the Restoration et al were simply repeated eras of the introduction of new and innovative theologies that depart from the Gospel of Jesus.
Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. Matthew 24:11
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:24
For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 2 Corinthians 11:13-14
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2Peter 2:1
This is how traditional Christians view the heretics of the first and second millennium.
And they're different from you and I just how? Do you think that any other group of people God picked would have done better?
If you or I were parked at the foot of Mount Sinai with a bunch of our own, and Moses actually walked up the mountain to meet Almighty God, would you have built yourself a golden calf god to amuse yourself until he returned?
Adam and Eve were created perfect and sinless. They were in the perfect, uncorrupted environment, walked with God in the cool of the day, and STILL chose to turn their backs on Him. It sounds like they were pretty self-indulgent to me.
If they were perfect, how could they sin?
Not to mention, that there isn't any organized religion, Catholicism included, that isn't filled with fickle self-indulgent people. You don't suppose that it's simply because of human nature instead of the particular group they are, now do you?
There are a number of societies much more aligned and disciplined than OT Jewry. Look at the Japanese, for instance.
On a reply, I do not have access to your full ping list. If you wish them to see my reply, please ping them.
You are right, Mark. Gentiles are addressed in reference to Noah. They are subject to seven Noahide laws, but outside of those they have no other obligation or duty in God's plan. Knowing the God of Noah and Abraham as the light of the nations is not the same as being "grafted" or "tasked" to pick up where the Jews failed.
The Jews, and no one else, are clearly the people God chose in the Bible to serve him. Nowhere in OT do you find that the Gentiles will be tasked to take over the duty of serving God in place if Israel. That is another Pauline innovation.
Are you conflating The Bride of Christ with the institutional church?
How are they different - assuming that by 'institutional church' you mean the Catholic Church?
Sorry, I don't save posts nor do I read all of the posts that are not directed to me. However, our friend Kosta has been known on frequent occasions to say rather unkind things about the Apostles (especially Paul) and questioned the validity of the scriptures. Comparing God to a pink unicorn would not be a surprise to me.
That flawed conflation leads to many errors which get institutionalized. [Snake handling comes to mind ...]
Kosta posted that ‘appelation’ just this past week or two on a long thread. I can find it if necessary, but suffice it to say that Kosta floats that sort of oblique insult to those of faith all the time. It is a hallmark of the dead-soul arrogant mind.
“How are they different - assuming that by ‘institutional church’ you mean the [Roman] Catholic Church?”
There... fixed it for you MHG.
Hoss
It will be interesting to see where I said "God is like a pink unicorn"!
There... fixed it for you MHG.
Hoss
You did not fix it. You merely imposed a silly short sighted and shallow supposition over the post as I intended it. In other words, you are wrong.
Don't you mean 'born from above'?
The institution of the Church began with Jesus saying in Matthew 16:18 "And I say to thee. thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." and it was commissioned by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
That flawed conflation leads to many errors which get institutionalized. [Snake handling comes to mind ...]
And the snake handlers differ from any other heretics how?
The accusation was direct. I merely asked for some evidence of it.
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