Posted on 01/14/2011 5:57:52 PM PST by topcat54
Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformed.org ...
Unless he's Catholic, right?
gg, I'd thank you for being fair, but the Usual Suspects would just dogpile you.
conservo, good luck.
I don't think so Quix: unless you can show me a post where a Catholic actually deny's the abuse problem. I think what happens is that the sad truth of the universality of sin is hard for some of us, Catholic and non-Catholic, to come to terms with. My Church is chock full of sinners, myself chief among them. But thats why I go, I'm sick and need a hospital. I think some of us forget to be humble and pray for one another and that except for the grace of God go I.
Now are you saying the legal system discriminates against Catholics?
Any time I write or say something useful it's prima facie evidence that God does indeed work in strange ways:)
Maybe. Are you part of the legal system?
if I’m on a jury, and you?
Proof positive of a modern day miracle, right?
Nope.
It is my understanding that at the first church is was arrested on a charge involving a minor and ended up pleading guilty to disorderly conduct. A background check would reveal any criminal activity, no? There’s no indication second church conducted a background check.
I understand these things happen and the system does not always work properly.
so if you were called to jury duty and served, you aren’t part of the legal system?
Protestant churches recognize the danger of people who would take advantage of children.
I know of several churches which have instituted rather strict policies in regards to people who work with children. That includes background checks, references, never, ever, ever, having men only in the nursery or working with children alone, doors refitted with windows so that anyone can check in any time and see what’s going on in the children’s rooms, isolating the children’s wing from visitor’s (not that it’s closed off, but visitor’s are not allowed to go down there unless accompanied by an authorized staff person), sign in and out sheets so that only approved people can pick up children from Sunday school or children’s church.....
We recognize the danger not only to the children from adults, but the danger to adults, men in particular, of false accusations and how devastating that can be to someone.
We recognize that it’s not a fool proof system and that just as someone determined to get a gun and shoot people will do so, no matter how oppressive gun legislation is, abuse can still occur. However, we try to minimize the potential.
I feel for all of you Catholics who recognize and admit to the problem and are working to correct it. That is obedience to Christ.
Denial and blame shifting, in an apparent attempt to take the heat off, does nothing to give anyone any indication that Catholics in general are taking this seriously.
The account that caww related upthread of a Catholic congregation who knew of a situation in their own parish and dismissed it, makes your job all the harder.
Much appreciate the attitude.
Agreed in a list of ways.
However, there are endless posts where FUNCTIONALLY, the net effect and impression is one of DENIAL. And, often enough, there is rather brazen denial of the evils of the hierarchy in covering things up.
I think that, too, is rather galling to Proddy observers.
On the one hand this hierarchy is characterized as being
CHRIST’S SOLE CHIEF on earth yada yada yada . . . sometimes somewhat infallible . . . . yada yada yada
ad nauseum
and on the other hand there’s all this horrendous foot dragging and cover-up.
That sticks in a LOT of Proddy craws.
IF—which, of course Proddys simply do NOT believe and from a Biblical standpoint . . . but just pretending for discussion . . .
IF the Pope et al were actually inheritors of Christ’s authority, office in any practical/spiritual sense,
that would make Christ out to be rather ineffectual in keeping the lot clean or at least earnest TOWARD holiness or inept to the max for choosing such a farce to begin with.
It’s preposterous to us that RC’s DEMAND
to have their crumbly cake and pretend it’s pure as Mary’s white hanky and eat it or flush it or play evil games with it all at the same time—and with a straight and usually unreasonably INDIGNANT face.
signs of the times. The problem is not unique to churches, in the past it happened routinely in schools, superintendants just passed them along, anything to get them out of their jurisdiction. Plus in the past, society was in denial
It doesn't specifically say. Scripture only says that Lot and Noah were righteous. Genesis 18 and 19 spell out the exchange between God and Abraham, and between Lot and the angels. 2 Peter 2 spells out what the Apostles considered Lot to be.
Lot was not declared righteous through faith at all. David was loved by God.
Which gets back to the righteousness we have through faith is what saves us because the works of those two men surely don’t qualify as good works or righteous works.
More novel interpretation, recently innovated, and irrespective of Christianity?
Good grief!
Very true. But since many of these churches are insulated from any sort of outside, or even inside scrutiny, sometimes those in authority feel untouchable. After all, who is going to question the word of a man of the cloth that we’ve known for umpteen years? Who watches the watchers?
God of course. But aside from that, we can only do what we can and do the right thing. But on the other hand, everybody I’ve ever known scrutinizes their minister, sometimes unfairly. They and their families live in glass houses. How they ever get away with anything amazes me
Yet, we also know that we are no longer under slavery to sin, we have been given the power and strength to resist evil. That some get complacent, caught up in their own hype or flattered by attention is evidenced time and time again not only in the "religious" area but the political as well. How Satan loves to beguile those in seats of power and how delighted he is when the devastating faults are exposed - and they all eventually are - and how great is the fall of those who disregard God's warnings.
I do not think anyone is exempt from temptation to sin. But when we do, we are commanded to confess - name it as he names it - repent and then know we have been forgiven in Christ. Any person in a position over others should expect to be bombarded by temptation and, knowing it will come, be prepared to fight with the full armor of God. Foremost is the shield of faith and the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God.
Finally, no one ever goes into gross sin intentionally if they are a Christian, but little by little, a slip here or there, an excuse, a reason, a rationalization or justification and, without some exercising of holiness to resist, they are headlong into full blown devastation and find they must hide, cover up or get rid of evidence or face being exposed and losing what authority they have. God expects the pastors and leaders of his flock to be above reproach and he obviously said this as a warning and an exhortation to striving for holiness in their walk because of those who look up to them. We all - not just those in ministry - should be willing to take the same care in our lives to walk worthy of him who called us so that no one is ever turned away from Christ by our actions.
The 1.8% figure may be accurate as regards pedophilia, and terms become important in studies. The factor of powerful lawyers working out deals or other means of dissuasion can prevent some from being reported, while on the other hand the size of the RCC makes it a more likely target for false accusers seeking money. And the media seeking a story. How real the problem is of homosexuals within the priesthood is also an issue.
As for Prots, there is not as much to go on, and generalities are more problematic, as Protestantism can be widely defined, from cults to gay Episcopalians and liberal United Methodist Church to evangelicals like Calvary Chapels to Westboro Baptism.
However, one complicated study (see next to last link at bottom) reports 6% of sexual "exploitation" - defined as a violation of professional ethics - among S. Baptists, while Sipe (see last link for criticism) has estimated that at anyone time 20% of Catholic priests are involved in a sexual relationship with a woman. (p. 144)
Among Catholic nuns only, exploitation during all their religious life was 12.5%, (p. 151) almost 25% of whom never discussed it with another person. (p. 153) "Harassment" was 9.3%, (p. 155) but which could happen by other than clergymen. Lifetime prevalence of sexual trauma in one form or another during (the often long) religious life for these sisters was nearly 30%, mostly by clergy but with laity close behind.
Overall, transcending religious, religious, sexual exploitation ran as high as 12% by male therapists of female clients (Gartrell et aI., 1986; Pope, Keith-Spiegel, and Tabachnik, 1986; Seto, 1995) with perhaps as high as 30% of female students and trainees experiencing sexual advances by educators and mentors. (Fortune, 1994; Rutter, 1991), (Glaser and Thorpe, 1986). (p. 144) In the general workplace, estimates of prevalence of sexual harassment behavior - differentiated from "exploitation" to include extortion of sexual favors with job-related consequences for failure to comply and/or general sexualized behavior that creates a hostile or offensive work environment (U.S. EEOC, 1980) vary from about 40% to 70% in studies of women in the general workplace. (Fitzgerald, 1993; Komaromy, Bindman, Haber, and Sande, 1993; Lenhart et al., 1991; Libbus and Bowman, 1994; United States) (p. 145) Also, nearly 77% of Methodist clergywomen, and 75% of surveyed women rabbis in the United States reported at least one experience of sexual harassment in their jobs. (p. 3)
We also know that since churches are rightly held to a higher standard then it makes for big news when a church is accused of impropriety, and some church ancients falsely were, while Origen for one castrated himself. And what accusations or guilty allows, esp. if the church is not diligent to discipline itself, is for the State to tread where they otherwise were reluctant to, and to stand where they ought not, and to marginalize the place of the church, as the State promotes itself as trustworthy, and to be more as God.
I am sure both RC and Prot posters here deplore all abuse of children, as all must. While all sin is wickedness, there is also a difference in the degree of such, which is why Sodom was not nuked for gossiping, and some things are a capital offense while others are not. As abuse of innocents is far more destructive than consensual fornication typically is, the former would be a capital crime in the O.T. (Lv. 20) Yet as repentant sinners we cannot cast stones at the penitent, but neither can we excuse sin by ourselves or others or refrain from helping victims.
More stats:
ABC news:
Of about 3,000 reported cases of sexual misconduct among priests committed in the past 50 years, only 300, or 10 percent, of those cases involved true pedophiles. Pedophilia is psychologically classified as sexual attraction to prepubescent children, younger than 13. Ninety percent of the reported abuse cases [referring to sexual tendencies and not actual behavior] involved Roman Catholic priests classified as ephebophiles, those attracted to teens between 13 and 19. Of those reported cases, 60 percent were homosexual abuse and 30 percent heterosexual abuse, according to the 2004 John Jay Report commissioned by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops."
"It is also statistically verifiable that 80 percent of victims of sexual abuse are abused by a family member. The father of a family is 36 times more likely to abuse a child than a priest is, according to the National Center for Posttraumatic Stress Disorder. (http://abcnews.go.com/CleanPrint/cleanprintproxy.aspx?1295542148946)
This relates to that: Are They Really Pedophiles?
The following is from the liberal http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex8.htm, in one of its more balanced pages,
Philip Jenkins, is a professor of history and religious studies at Penn State University, who has written a book on the topic, estimates that 2% of priests sexually abuse youth and children. (Philip Jenkins, "Pedophiles and Priests: Anatomy of a contemporary crisis," Oxford University Press, (2001)
Richard Sipe is a psychotherapist and former priest, who has studied celibacy and sexuality in the priesthood for four decades. He has authored three books on the topic. 5 By extrapolating from his 25 years of interviews of 1,500 priests and others, he estimates that 6% of priests abuse. Of these, 4% abuse teens, aged 13 to 17; 2% abuse pre-pubertal children. 4
Sylvia M. Demarest, a lawyer from Texas has been tracking accusations against priests since the the mid-1990s. By 1996, she had identified 1,100 priests who had been accused of molesting children. She predicts that when she updates the list, the total will exceed 1,500 names. This represents about 2.5% of the approximately 60,000 men who have been active priests in the U.S. since 1984. It is important to realize that these are accused priests; the allegations have not been evaluated in a trial. Also, there is no way to judge what proportion of abusive priests are on her list. It may include 40% or fewer; she may have found 90% or more.
Columnist Ann Coulter claimed, without citing references, that there are only 55 "exposed abusers" in a population of 45,000 priests. This is an abuse rate of 0.12%. (Ann Coulter, "Should gay priest [sic] adopt?," TownHall.com at: http://www.townhall.com/columnists/)
Various news services reported that 200 Roman Catholic priests in the Philippines have been investigated for "sexual misconduct and abuses" over the past two decades. That would represent almost 3% of the total population of about 7,000 priests. However, it appears that misconduct includes many offenses, from child abuse to rape to keeping adult mistresses. A survey of child and youth sexual abuse within the church issued in 2004-FEB estimates that four percent of the 110,000 priests who served between 1950 and 2002 were abusive. (200 priests investigated for sexual abuses in Philippines," Agence France-Presse, 2002-JUL-9 at: http://sg.news.yahoo.com/020709/1/30cew.html)
Donald Cozzens, former vicar of priests at the Diocese of Cleveland, OH, wrote in the year 2000 about his experience in the Midwest: "As a group, [child sexual] abusers tend to be married men who prey on girls, although many pedophiles abuse both girls and boys. Our respective diocesan experience revealed that roughly 90 percent of priest abusers targeted teenage boys as their victims. ... Relatively little attention has been paid to this phenomenon by church authorities. Perhaps it is feared that it will call attention to the disproportionate number of gay priests.
In 2002, he quoted other estimates that "90 percent to 95 percent, and some estimates say as high as 98 percent of the victims of clergy acting out [are] teenage boys." (Father Donald Cozzens, "The Changing Face of the Priesthood," Liturgical Press, (2000). Chapter 8 "Betraying Our Young" deals with sexual abuse, and from "Meet the Press transcript," ' ABC News' Meet the Press, 2002-MAR-31, at: http://www.msnbc.com/news/731454.asp)
A U.S. Department of Education report issued in 2004 examined a number of American studies into the prevalence of sexual misconduct by school staff. They found that between 3.5% and 50.3% of students are targets of educator sexual misconduct sometime during their school career. They found that teachers, coaches, substitute teachers were the most common offenders.(Charol Shakeshaft, "Educator Sexual Misconduct: A Synthesis of Existing Literature," U.S. Department of Education, 2004-JUN, at: http://www.ed.gov/)
Gary Schoener, a psychologist whose Walk-In Counseling Center in Minneapolis has consulted with more than 1,000 victims of clerical sexual abuse, believes that the percentage of abusers is no higher among Catholic priests than among Protestant ministers. But in his experience, he said, priests have more victims because they operate longer before they are caught." (Alan Cooperman, "Sex abuse in clergy stymies scientists Lack of data thwarts efforts to gauge depth of the problem," Washington Post, 2002-MAR-24, at: http://detnews.com/2002/religion)
More:
Roman Catholic sex abuse cases by country
Also, 34,000 Catholics nuns trauma. Review of Religious Research
No kidding.
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