Posted on 01/08/2011 6:43:59 PM PST by Grig
I was not aware Protestants didn’t believe to absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Why is it that the people that claim to follow the Bible, don’t?
since you are a fan of logic, let me ask a question. how is it logical in 1 Corinthians 11:27-29, that someone who takes the Lord’s Supper unworthily, is guilty of profaning the Body and Blood of the Lord, if the Lord’s Body and Blood are not present?
The Eucharist is ‘The Lord’s Supper’. In the Eucharist, which Christ said to do in remembrance of Him, we take bread and wine in remembrance of His Body and Blod sacrificed for us. To invoke the sacrifice Jesus made for us, for our forgiveness yet know we are doing this without a repentant and forgiving heart is to profane that which Jesus told us to do in remembrance of Him, of His Sacrifice for us. You can believe it to be some magical/mystical thing, but that is nto what comes through int he Greek and in the context of Paul’s writing. By using the remembrance unworthily you use it spitefully ... remember the admonition about ‘crucifying again The Lord Jesus’, referenced as sinning willfully and having no means to have sin cancelled, in the context of why being Born Again is to have all sin wiped away, past, present, and future. And remeber to whom the text is addressed. Don’t try to conjure up traditions of men to answer the easy stuff.
another logical question: If Hebrews 6:18 is correct and God can’t lie and Jesus is God, why didn’t Jesus say “This represents My Body” rather than “This is My Body” if that is what He meant?
You say you will take ‘the Catholic faith’. Good! God really isn’t in the business of sorting Christians, yet. In this present age it is about being born again, by whatever convention brings the human heart to ask Him to be your personal Savior and be Born Again. You know very well that there are traditions in the Catholic Faith which are inventions of Catholic scholars and leaders. The same is true of the many Protestant conventions/inventions. But we share One Lord as our Soter, for He is The Way, The Truth, a nd The Light, and no man, not any, comes to the Father but by Jesus as Deliverer.
You know, FRiend, you really ought to try and hold your piece so you can ask Jesus those questions when you see Him.
“traditions of men” I assume you and all your fellow worshippers in your church understand the Lord’s Supper just the way you described it. This is what you have been taught by a pastor and if that pastor died, i am sure a few years after his death you would be able to correctly describe this man’s thoughts on the Lord’s Supper. Now, i also believe if you or i sat at the feet of St John for a number of years and listened to him preach and had the ability to have him answer any of our questions, we might have a good idea of what he taught the Lord’s Supper was. We can do exactly that by listening to St. Ignatius, who was appointed Bishop of Antioch after St John, due to his faithfulness to the Gospel ( ultimately he was martyred in Rome ) St Ignatius wrote around 100AD that the Gnostics abstained from taking the Eucharist because they did not believe it to be the Body of Christ! Justin Martyr wrote the same 50 yrs later. All the Church Fathers believed this, and these were the men who set the 27 book NT canon. You can follow the tradition of Calvin for the past 500 years, I’ll follow Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the consistent teaching of the Body of Christ for 2,000 years!
i know no such thing. we are baptized into One Body and Jesus prayed in John 17 we all be One, so the world will believe in Him. Why don’t you follow His wishes?
FRiend, you appear to be using the issue for some personal boost. We don’t need to be arguing over The Eucharist since we both hold the ritual to be of very great importance to a Christian. Have a nice evening. The Lord be with you
I embrace Mormons as righteous citizens of the first order.
_________________________________________________
WOW
Well since you introduced politics into a religious thread...
Whats the chance that those same mormons will vote for the female Sarah Palin for president when she beats their boy, Williard Mitt Romney for the GOP nomination ???
Interesting how you cherry pick John 17 apart. You've missed these verses:
John 17:21 - 21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
John 17:22 - 22"The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;
Jesus claimed to be ONE with God the Father in John 17.
John 14:9 - "Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
John 14:7 - " If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."
In those verses preceding John 17 Christ again claims to be the Father - they are ONE.
Either Christ is a liar, or the Mormon church are the liars distorting what Christ actually SAID about Himself.
My money's on the abyssmal teaching of the LDS.
I’m fond of calling that scene in John 14 ‘Philip’s Physics Lesson’.
Colossians 1:15-16:
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Revelation 4:11 "" Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created."
Hebrews 1:2 - in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
Hebrews 1:3 - And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Do Mormons not stop and consider those verses???? It is CHRIST who created the earth, and all within it. And it is CHRIST who maintains and holds together all things currently. The reason Christ was able to walk on water, calm the storms, feed the 5,000, raise the dead, etc. etc. is because HE IS THE CREATOR OF IT ALL. He wasn't showing off doing these miracles, He did them so that WE would be able to recognize WHO HE IS. Talk about a physics lesson!
Attention Mormons: Wouldn't being 'the creator' make Christ Almighty God in every sense of the Word???? Or do these verses just get thrown out along with other verses you all just decide to collectively cut out of the Bible if they contradict the LDS?
First, The TOP 10:
1. How you interpret it is wrong...
[But we're either too elitist to condescend to you & show you what's right...or, we're too lazy 'cause we delegate these things to our unofficial apologists & PR spokespersons...which is the only time you'll see a female carry more weight than a male in the Mormon church!]
2. You are too ignorant to really understand it because you are not a member...
['Tis only AFTER you become WELL-initiated into our cult, occult style (occult as in the literal meaning of the word, "hidden")...
...That we begin to open your scaly eyes about what we really practice!
--(After all, if we revealed the holy underwear, special handshakes that your spirit needs to do when your dead, & masonic ritual stuff we stole & other stuff up front, who'd join?)]
3. You're not qualified to judge because you're no LONGER a member...
[That's a given...I mean even tho we don't believe hell is eternal, we've signed a special "waver" in your case 'cause you qualify as a former Mormon apostate!]
4. You are just a bigot for bringing the whole ugly truth to light ...
[Only Mormons have a right to designate all other churches as false, dead, & apostate & governed by abominable creeds. If you elect to continue to reference us in any negative light, we will add another ad hominen to our attack arsenal & reference you not only to be a "bigot," but we'll get those lurkers to "ooh" & "awe" by tossing out our handy-dandy "anti-Mormon" label...we'd use the cross to ward off anti-Mormon vampires like you...except...except...well, we don't believe in displaying crosses...]
5. So's yer Mama!
[Have ya ever noticed we talk about our father-god in heaven all the time, but hardly e'er a word about our mom-god there? Well, we know dad-god likes to keep her barefoot, pregnant, and in the bedroom.]
6. Laugh it all off and post some silly image.
['Cause we haven't given you enough "ammo" yet with our silly magic underwear, our Kolob colony, our eternal polygamy, our Adam-is-god, our racist teachings, our you-have-to-shed-blood-for-some-of-your-own-sins-just-Jesus'-blood-just-didn't-cut-it, our ya-gotta-track-down-all-stone-age-&-dark-age-genealogical-records-'cause-our- god-has-a-fair-system-of-baptizing-hundreds-of-billions-of-dead-people-in-our-11-dozen-temples, & the rest]
7. Jump down the rabbit hole; Alice! [we mutter uncontentiously]
8. Bait & Switch
[Well, besides seeing #2 -- it's like an early date...if these marriage prospects really knew us for who we are, would we even get a second date? Why else do we spend $billions on our image-marketing & PR efforts?]
9. The OTHER 'half' of the truth is what we are avoiding.
[So, please put away your Paul Harvey style of presenting us with the "rest of the story"...it's giving our burning bosoms heartburn...or showing us that's what it was all along]
10. "I Know It When I See It"
[As two Mormons have now posted the following quote twice in Lds-initiated threads, it must be 'cause it's one of their "fave" sage comments: "If Mormonism were a cult, I would know it, and I would not be in it." -- Orson Card, end of article @ Hey, Who Are You Calling a Cult? I from 2008 and Hey, Who Are You Calling a Cult? II from 2011 ]
The NEXT 10:
11. Hand waving...
[Well, it's not really hand-waving...just flexing our fingers and hands for that power sign language apologetic that we're about to just blow you away with!!!]
12. YOU play defense for a while.
[What? You don't interpret our "offense" that we've been giving to you in sign language throughout this thread? Your loss, then!]
13. HEE Hee hee... let's get the Calvinists and the Armenians fighting!
[Besides we're tired of being under seige...it's not just the Evangelicals on our right flank, either...the RLDS & FLDS are to our rear & eatin' up our PR budget like crazy! Harry Reid & Mitt Romney are on our left flank & wow! There goes our marketing dollars up the chimney! And then there's a fifth column rising up from within! Oh noez!!!]
14. GREAT FUN! Let's get the Catholics and the Protestants fighting!
[Pay no attention to our wizard, Joe Smith, behind that screen with his face in his hat, 'seein' things that he dictated to a scribe who chiseled what Joe said about Protestants, Catholics & Orthodox in Mormon stone...I mean, just 'cause our evals of you Christians are etched in a prophet's stone whereas your comments about other Christians are like letters to the editor, so what??]
15. Huh? Did you say something?
[See, our missionary background has only taught us to make sure you are hospitable when we rudely interrupt your life at your porch...Us? Who said we had to be hospitable & engage in dialogues? Besides what would or could we say once the conversation extends beyond those those Mormon missionary scripts we were given way back when?]
16. If I repeat this enough times some folks will be fooled into thinking it's true.
[Hey, if our 19th century "United Order" could unwittingly fuel Soviet Communism * (see * below), then turn about is fair play if we borrow something from the Communists!]
17. Playing dumb.
[Well, more often that not, if truth be told, we're not really 'playin'...but hey, "Seminary" classes as a description of what's learned there is a bit of misnomer there, after all]
18. Refusing to answer because your ATTITUDE offends them.
[Can you spell S-U-L-K city?]
19. (Let's see if they'll fall for the 'Defend a freak' ploy.)
[Elsie, ya gotta 'plain this one]
20. And the MOST used... IGNORE what they posted and answer the question that SHOULD have been asked.
[Well, it's not our fault that the 'inquirer' skipped his line in our Mormon missionary script!]
* Amplification of #16 amplification! From Mormon author George W. Givens, 500 More Little-Known Facts in Mormon History, p. 185):
"One of the most famous utopian books ever written was Looking Backward by Edward Bellamy, published in 1889. Some scholars believe Looking Backward had considerable influence in the making of Lenin's Soviet Russia. If this is true, then [ensuing Lds "prophet"] Lorenzo Snow and the Latter-day Saints must receive some of the credit--or blame. Hearing of the success of the United Order in Brigham City, Edward Bellamy made a special trip to Utah in 1886 to study its operation. There he spent three days with Lorenzo Snow, Brigham City's founder and forty-year resident. Impressed with the thirty to forty industries run by its 2,000 inhabitants and the vitality at that time of one of the most successful United Orders, Bellamy returned home and wrote his influential book."
Way to go, 19th century Mormon leader-“prophets” of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor & Lorenzo Snow!!! They all unwittingly fueled Soviet Communism!
Ok then.
I wasn't aware that some folks skip over the word RATHER in that verse.
AS soon as you DEFINE unworthily...
Ya gotta know your audience!
These were ALL Jews, and they were practicing a YEARLY ritual that had been going on for CENTURIES.
It seems that only CHRISTIANS have forgotten what the items JESUS was speaking about represented.
So, does his 'teaching' trump what the BIBLE actually says?
Did HIS 'teaching' take a yearly practgice and TURN IT INTO a 'whenever you darken a church door' ritual?
Brilliant
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