Hey, Who Are You Calling a Cult?

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/Latter-Day-Saints/2000/11/Hey-Who-Are-You-Calling-A-Cult.aspx ^ | Orson Scott Card

[Paragon Defender]

Hey, Who Are You Calling a Cult?

 

The LDS Church is less of a cult than many of the religions that accuse it of being one.

BY: Orson Scott Card

 

 

He wrote to me in all innocence, a reader from a Catholic country where Mormon missionaries had only recently begun to gather congregations of believers.

"I asked my priest," he said, "and he told me that Mormons are a cult."

Setting aside the obvious riposte ("What did you think your priest would tell you, that Mormonism was true Christianity as restored by God to living prophets?"), I think it's worth considering just what we mean by "cult" and seeing whether it applies to the Mormon Church.

Cult as Bad Word

Anti-Mormons use "cult" the way gay activists use "homophobe"--as an ad hominem epithet hurled to try to silence any persuasive opponent whose ideas can't be countered on their merits.

When used this way, "cult" just means "religion I want you to fear so much you won't listen to them." Or even, "religion I want you to hate so much that you will remove it from the list of churches that deserve constitutional protection."

But just as "homophobe" has a core meaning (someone with a pathological fear of homosexuality to the degree that it interferes with his life), so also with "cult." The only reason it works as name-calling is because there really are religious groups that do--and should--scare us.

There are real examples of what we mean by cults: Jim Jones' group that destroyed itself in mass murder and suicide in Guyana, or those sneaker-wearing folks who killed themselves to join aliens approaching behind a comet. And even though the Branch Davidians may not have been as monstrous as they were depicted in the media, they still clearly fall within what we mean by that word.

What do they have in common?

Charismatic Founder. Cults gather around charismatic individuals who are the sole source of truth to their followers.

Exploitation. The leader enriches himself through the financial contributions of the members, or gathers personal power that he uses to exploit members in other ways to benefit himself. If the group survives the leader's death, it remains a cult if his successors continue that exploitation.

Automatons. The members are discouraged from thinking for themselves, and, insofar as possible, are turned into unquestioning "obedience machines."

Withdrawal and Isolation. Perhaps because exploitation and obedience are easiest to maintain when the ordinary world can't offer its distractions and attractions, cults tend to withdraw physically, seeking ever greater isolation. This is often used as part of the conversion process, to keep the prospective member from hearing counterarguments.

Are All Religions Cults?

It's worth pointing out that there are very few religions of any size or influence that did not begin with a charismatic founder and whose members did not seem, to outsiders, to behave in much the way I've just described. A humble, wise teacher can always be charged with "setting himself up as the sole source of truth" merely because he offers any unusual idea.

The gathering of money to help the poor or pay for meetinghouses or publications can be called "exploitation." The natural desire of converts to live according to the teachings of their leader can look like lockstep blind obedience to those who live a different way. And if outsiders persecute the new religion, it is only natural that adherents will want to band together and get away, if only for a few hours at a time, to be able to practice their religion in peace.

All religions have a body of teachings that becomes a lens through which the believers see the world around them. To those who don't believe, the lens seems to be a distortion of reality--though of course, those unbelievers are merely distorting reality their own way, through their own lens. No one sees reality without passing the data through the lens of their own preconceptions.

All religions also form a community, however loosely organized, of like-minded believers who set the standard of correctness. Whether that standard is rigid or relaxed, those who cross it are expelled from the community and are treated as heretics, apostates, or infidels. Severe treatment of heretics can be found from the lowliest cult to the largest church, from the most rigid sect to "open"-minded, post-religious academia.

You have to get fairly close to a new religion in order to see whether it is acting like a cult or like a religion. Most of those who hurl the word "cult," however, do not bother to get close. And those who do are often so grimly determined to attack that they distort all evidence in order to support the charge.

How Does Mormonism Measure Up?

Joseph Smith was a charismatic leader, but he was murdered 156 years ago. Nowadays, we have leaders who, while sometimes gifted at communication, are rarely of the dramatic, movement-founding type. Indeed, I feel safe in saying that the majority in my lifetime have been rather dull and gray, and they are followed far more because of their office than because of any personal charisma.

Exploitation? As for exploitative leadership, this charge is absolutely false and always has been. Joseph Smith passed the money test with flying colors: He died poor and in debt, not because of profligate spending, but because any money that flowed into his hands flowed right back out again in attempts to benefit the saints and build the church.

In the years since, a handful of church offices have become salaried, but the salaries are merely enough to sustain normal family life. The perks of wealth are shunned even by those church leaders who were rich before being called to one of those rare salaried offices. And church leaders constantly struggle to eliminate the sycophancy, the cult of personality, and the general "sucking up" that are bound to arise in any hierarchical organization.

By any honest measure, Mormon church leaders, from Joseph Smith on, have a remarkable record of genuine humility. They really do try to be the servants rather than the masters of the saints.

Automatons? Those who have actually lived in a Mormon ward--and especially those who have tried to lead a group of Mormons in any kind of activity--can all affirm one truth: Mormons may well be the most stubborn, independent-minded group of people ever assembled as a religious community.

Joseph Smith received a revelation that established the only style of leadership that actually works in the Mormon church (or, in the long run, anywhere): You can only lead by persuasion, by love, by patience, by your own willingness to learn from those you lead. Every now and then, some local Mormon leader will try to give orders or attempt to manipulate people into doing things his way. But he very quickly learns that the more he does that, the less obedient we Mormons become.

Far from being robots, most of us Mormons are, by inclination and by doctrine, determined to make up our own minds about everything. It's a core doctrine of Mormonism that each member of the church is personally and individually responsible for their own relationship with God.

Isolation? As for the cultish trait of isolating converts from any other influence, or brainwashing them till they can't think for themselves, our method of teaching would-be proselytes is the opposite. We usually teach them in their own homes. Our missionaries come for a little while and then leave them to themselves to read, ponder, and pray. We counter the attacks of anti-Mormons by telling the truth about our beliefs and practices, not by trying to cut off contact with our opponents.

Far from becoming isolated, a new convert to Mormonism is taught to be more respectful and loving to parents, spouse, children, and other family members and friends. They usually do better at their careers and education, and if withdrawal takes place it is because their new Mormon lifestyle and beliefs are rejected by their family or friends.

Kettles and Pots

On all these points, I daresay that the Mormon church is less cult-like than many of the religions that delight in calling us one.

Indeed, calling Mormonism a cult is usually an attempt to get people to behave like robots, blindly obeying the command that they reject Mormonism without any independent thought. Kettles, as they say, calling the pot black.

Here's the simplest statement I can make: If Mormonism were a cult, I would know it, and I would not be in it.

 

 

 

[LiteKeeper]

Joseph Smith was a charismatic leader, but he was murdered 156 years ago

By his own followers...and he went down in a blaze of gunfire...he was shooting at the men who trying to break him out of jail for stealing their horses, and their wives!

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

ping

[SnakeDoctor]

>> [...] I daresay that the Mormon church is less cult-like than many of the religions that delight in calling us one.

It would’ve been a more entertaining read if he had the stones to name names on that accusation.

SnakeDoc

[GeronL]

The only reason I would call it a cult is that it attempts to piggyback on Christianity. It is not a Christian denomination.

[humblegunner]

If Mormonism were a cult, I would know it, and I would not be in it.

It's hard to take a statement like that seriously when it's made by someone wearing magic underpants.

[Above My Pay Grade]

>>>Here's the simplest statement I can make: If Mormonism were a cult, I would know it, and I would not be in it. <<<

Whatever one thinks of Mormonsim, this is one of the dumbest sentences ever written.

Cult members never THINK they are in a cult. I'm sure everyone who drank the Koolaid at Jonestown would swear they were not in a cult and that they would NEVER be in a group that was a cult.

My take is that theologically speaking Mormonism is clearly a cult. Its teachings deviate tremendously from those found in the Bible.

I haven't had enough exposure to Mormonism to judge whether it is a cult from a sociological perspective. From what I've read, my impression is that it is somewhat cultish in that respect. There seems to be a great deal of societal pressure to remain members, and follow rules. However, it does not seem to employ most of the more heavy handed mind control methods that groups we'd normally think of as “cults” tend to use.

[SENTINEL]

SEEKERS OF TRUTH...

Paragon Defender, the poster of this article, on December 26th 2010, here on FR, called BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY A CULT !

This is of course in line with FLDS/LDS Scripture, the DOCTRINE of FLDS/LDS founders Jospeh Smith, Brigham Young and others, and the Teachings in "Apostle" Bruce R. McConkie's book "Mormon Doctrine".

[starlifter]

Who cares one way or the other?

[SZonian]

"Charismatic Founder. Cults gather around charismatic individuals who are the sole source of truth to their followers."

CHECK - Joe Smith and Brigham Young meet this criteria.

"Exploitation. The leader enriches himself through the financial contributions of the members, or gathers personal power that he uses to exploit members in other ways to benefit himself. If the group survives the leader's death, it remains a cult if his successors continue that exploitation.'

CHECK - Joe Smith and Brigham Young meet this criteria.

"Automatons. The members are discouraged from thinking for themselves, and, insofar as possible, are turned into unquestioning "obedience machines."

CHECK - Dallin Oaks "warned" mormons some time ago about this. - "The ultimate answer in authoritarian organizations, whether we all realize it or not. "Because" - because Spencer Kimball said so, because Joseph said so, because we always have...but as each "because" (just as we have seen in Oaks' own talk) evaporates under scrutiny, another "because" replaces it. And in the end, there is nothing else, except "because". Because we said so. And when the prophet speaks, the thinking has been done. And that should settle the matter for all faithful Latter-day Saints. The end."

[Salvavida]

How does “heretical” sound? Either way, it leads to the same end.

The Arian heresy was dealt with in 325 AD: the heretics were booted. LDS subscribes to the same theology (Jesus was created), so it’s just a repackage of a previous heresy; only dressed up in order to meet the taste of Americans.

But since this theology found a following, “cult” is a proper and well-deserved name. It is outside orthodox Christianity: hence, a cult.

[Vendome]

Are Mormons Homophobes, per the article?

Mormons make up their own mind? LOL, give me a break. I know several supposedly staunch Republicans, who are Mormon, who have openly supported Harry Reid, even going so far as to drive to his hometown as part of some weird pilgrimage.

Isolation or Isolationists? Hecky yeah. Utah and Idaho are sanctuary territory for LDS and anyone outside LDS is looked upon as an outsider.

You can only lead by persuasion, by love, by patience, by your own willingness to learn from those you lead??? Seriously???

I have seen only holier than thou view points, dishonest and corporate practiced misleading, even leading questions.

In terms of being a cult? Heck I don’t know and that’s not my gripe.

[Godzilla]

Leave it to a writer of science fiction to explain mormonism to us.

Charismatic Founder. Cults gather around charismatic individuals who are the sole source of truth to their followers. . .
Joseph Smith was a charismatic leader, but he was murdered 156 years ago. Nowadays, we have leaders who, while sometimes gifted at communication, are rarely of the dramatic, movement-founding type. Indeed, I feel safe in saying that the majority in my lifetime have been rather dull and gray, and they are followed far more because of their office than because of any personal charisma.

Hey, I thought the mark of a TRUE church was that it had a LIVING PROPHET and that when the prophet SPEAKS the thinking is done. Well card's obfuscation is clearly half baked on this point.

Exploitation. The leader enriches himself through the financial contributions of the members, or gathers personal power that he uses to exploit members in other ways to benefit himself. If the group survives the leader's death, it remains a cult if his successors continue that exploitation. ......
Exploitation? As for exploitative leadership, this charge is absolutely false and always has been. Joseph Smith passed the money test with flying colors: He died poor and in debt, not because of profligate spending, but because any money that flowed into his hands flowed right back out again in attempts to benefit the saints and build the church.

LOL, and this guy writes with a straight face. Only addresses the $$$ aspect - lol smith was not a poverty stricken individual but lived rather well. See the other aspect is the gathering of personal power is avoided by Card. In Nauvoo smith suddenly became a general as well as was crowned king. He commanded members to give their wives to him and ruled his followers as he wished. This was passed on to bring'em young and the succession of 'prophets'. Buck monson's decisions and see how far that gets ya.

Automatons. The members are discouraged from thinking for themselves, and, insofar as possible, are turned into unquestioning "obedience machines. . . . . . . "
Automatons? Those who have actually lived in a Mormon ward--and especially those who have tried to lead a group of Mormons in any kind of activity--can all affirm one truth: Mormons may well be the most stubborn, independent-minded group of people ever assembled as a religious community. . . . . . .

As stated earlier - when the prophet speaks, the thinking is done. How about turning down 'callings' - wow, will that ever earn you points in your ward. Add to that the weekly repetious 'testimonies' which can almost be indistinguishable between mormons. LOL, try showing up to testimony meeting in shorts. Mormon prophets and apostles have worked to LIMIT information to the mormon sheepeoles.

Withdrawal and Isolation. Perhaps because exploitation and obedience are easiest to maintain when the ordinary world can't offer its distractions and attractions, cults tend to withdraw physically, seeking ever greater isolation. This is often used as part of the conversion process, to keep the prospective member from hearing counterarguments. . . .. . . . . .
Isolation? As for the cultish trait of isolating converts from any other influence, or brainwashing them till they can't think for themselves, our method of teaching would-be proselytes is the opposite. We usually teach them in their own homes. Our missionaries come for a little while and then leave them to themselves to read, ponder, and pray. We counter the attacks of anti-Mormons by telling the truth about our beliefs and practices, not by trying to cut off contact with our opponents.

Clearly card lack historical understanding - from its inception mormonism has been isolationist - Nauvoo, Utah Territory, legal coups seizing public property around the slc temple, etc. Also - isolationist in regard to temple and other activities. Have a spouse that leaves mormonism - hey just leave that spouse and get another 'faithful' one.

Here's the simplest statement I can make: If Mormonism were a cult, I would know it, and I would not be in it.

Not really - card has been brainwashed/indoctrinate into it. He believes that a piece of fiction written in the 1800s tells the story of the Amerindians - he wouldn't be able to recognize truth unless he removed the blinders.

Thanks PD, this post only goes to show how deceived mormons are.

[Vendome]

What?!

“They” are Christian... /s

[GeronL]

“They” it was a movie right? Those bugs on the wall... those were NOT Christians.

:P

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

lol

[Vendome]

That underwear stuff is a total ripoff of Masonry and designed to remind members of LDS of their allegiance to the church but, and I repeat, but not to God.

It is part of their rites to swear allegiance to the Church and in fact, they are not allowed to wear the underwear unless it is purchased from the church or temple or ward or....

[colorcountry]

Oh dear, PD, will you never learn?