Posted on 01/06/2011 2:31:49 PM PST by Paragon Defender
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Worship whatever doctrine you wish.
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Now kid you know I wouldnt ever do that...
and you better stop doing that also...
Dont you feel blessed to have me to teach you ???
The LORD Jesus Christ said to yellowroses, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Nno man or woman comes to the Father except by Me.” John 14:6
The Greek word ouden means... not even any man, woman or thing...
Ah another difference between mormonism and Christianity...
In Christianity women are saved too (and black folk)
mormonism is not Christianitry...
"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three God's." (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370.).God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3, 1844)
"The heads of the Gods appointed ONE God for us ..." (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372)
"Long before you were born a program was developed by your creators...The principal personalities in this great drama were Elohim, perfect in wisdom, judgement, and person, and two sons, Lucifer and Jehovah." (Spencer W. Kimball, Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, pp. 32-33).
It is readily apparent from these scriptures that there was a war in heaven in which Christ and Satan (Lucifer) fought against each other, and that there were followers of each. Satan was defeated and cast out along with his angels or followers. Where were all these followers, and who were they? The answer is that they were us. Christ and Satan and their followers warred in a heaven that pre-existed this earth and mortal existence. All of us lived in this heavenly spiritual realm before we were born with physical bodies on the earth. Christ was begotten of the Father, as were all of us, including Lucifer, who was a Son of the Morning. ... Since both Christ and Lucifer were born of the Father, they are brothers in a spiritual sense, as all of us are brothers and sisters in that sense. (LDS teaching regarding Joseph Smiths, Pearl of Great Price: Book of Moses 4:1-4)
"The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were Mormons (Jedediah Grant, Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 346).
"Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee...We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into relation whereby he could see his seed [children] before he was crucified (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 82).
"These name-titles all signify that our Lord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understood literally. Only means only; Begotten means begotten; and Son means son. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 546-547).
"We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father, and so on, from generation to generation, from one heavenly world to another still more ancient, until our minds are wearied and lost in the multiplicity of generations and successive worlds, and as a last resort, we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten. But why does man seek for a first, when revelation informs him that God's works are without beginning? (Lds apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 132, 1853)
That last one from Pratt should be easy enough for you to disagree with, since it is an absolute contradiction to what God teaches in the Tanakh and New Testament. But I will bet you cannpt even disavow that heresy! Being caught in the cesspool of a cult is tough to realize while in it, drowning in blasphemies and heresies.
Ampu,
What a sweet, and tender man you are. You certainly temper your words, and I appreciate that so much in you.
I KNOW you think I am confused. I am so sorry you believe that. I am not confused. I am sincere, and have a certain knowledge as to what has transpired in my life. I was taught by loving parents how and to Whom to pray. My parents belonged to a dear, little church “The Trinity United Church of Christ” in a tiny town. My parents taught by example, to trust in the Lord, and acknowledge His hand in our lives.
I taught Sunday School. I loved my Pastors, I have always, ALWAYS loved the Bible. My mother sat me on her knee, and read Bible stories to me through out my childhood. I know the Bible better than some people, but not perfectly. This I freely admit.
You and I could/will discuss our beliefs as often as you wish. It is a priviliege (sp) to do so, for I love the Lord with all my heart and soul. I know you do TOO! I feel your sweet spirit.
So, lets proceed.
I wish to take each item, one at a time, and explain. Since it’s almost midnight here, in Texas, I may have to do this over several hours tomorrow too.
You said: “built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets. And the cornerstone is Christ Jesus himself. Eph 2:20
Only HE determines when His written Word is added to. He doesnt tell us His schedule in advance.”
So true. When Joseph Smith was in turmoil with the different sects of religious discussions, he took the works of James, and sought knowledge from the Greatest Source - that of God. You say he was decieved. I say that he saw what he said he saw, and never denied it. Here he was, a 14 year old boy, who shared his spiritual experience with pastors, and learned men. And they dismissed him as “from the Devil.” Now, these men of God were trained, and knowledgable in the doctrine. But they clashed with each other as to which of their dogmas were completely, and totally correct. They decided, immediately, that this sincere young man, was a lier. (sp) (can’t seem to type tonight or spell)
I say, Heavenly Father arranged for this nation, the United States of America, to be founded on totally Christian principles. The Bible was it’s foundation. Our leaders reverenced the principles taught there in. There are so many stories/history to testify to God’s tender mercies to this nation, and its building.
Why? So that a righteous land might be available for Him to restore precious truths that had been passed along over 1600 years. Christians were and are still His. He loves us. His Son, Jesus Christ died for us. His Grace is sufficient for us, as long as we follow His example, and truly try to throw ourselves on His mercy.
If God prepared this nation, so that men could be free to choose, according to their consciousness, then I believe He could also RESTORE those parts that had been lost over the years.
Why do ministers and Pastors receive payment for teaching the Gospel?
Why were different congregations, who professed love for God, and His Son, so determined to prove each other wrong, and if I didn’t believe exactly as they did, then I surely would go to Hell?
Why were infants baptized? If the Savior was baptized, in the river Jordan, to prove the correct way to enter the Kingdom, He being perfect, the Lamb of God, they why is there such discussion, and sometimes little regard for the ordinance of baptism. Some say it’s OK. Some say it’s not really actually necessary. Some say babies go to Hell if their not baptized.
I was taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ, by Elders who had/have authroity to do so. They did not call themselves. They were called by those who had authority to do so. My son even now, preaches the restored Gospel in Mexico. I rejoice that he has dedicated two years in the service of his fellow man. He doesn’t smoke, drink, sleep around, do drugs. He is an honourable young man you would be proud to call your son.
I am not mistaken with regards to what I believe. I am sincere, and know what I believe is true. For I have seriously considered, prayed, lived each day, to the best of my ability, to see what fruits my belief would give.
The Savior, Jesus Christ lives. He loves me.
God knows our world is full of sin and evil, people blinded, lost, and they know not where to turn.
I believe the end is near, that the Savior will return. Do not you think, that perhaps, God loves us so very much, that He might, maybe, perhaps, love us as much as before the Savior? I do. He called Moses by a burning bush. I know he called Joseph Smith.
I know you shudder when you read that, and I am so sorry you feel that way. But know this, I know what I know. I am not belittling any one elses love and devotion to God. He is the Perfect Judge and knows our hearts.
I say, this is a special nation “a City on a Hill” because Heavenly Father has prepared it to be so. We, you and I who love Jesus Christ, and know Him to be our Savior, must stand together to direct the way for the lost souls, who need a refuge from the storm. May I please stand beside you?
“Shame on me? ... I’ll say a prayer for you tonight, but with your attitude, I may get smacked by God for asking that His mercy be extended to you.”
Thank you for your prayers on my behalf. I doubt very much that God will smack you because you ask that he extend mercy to me. You see, Jesus Christ died for all of us. He teaches us that we must forgive. If we refuse to forgive, then we deny that Christ has the power to forgive everyone.
I still say shame on you. Your understanding is the world’s understanding of Joseph Smith. You think he was a sham. That’s your choice. Believe whom you will. Were your sources written by godly men? Nd, yes, I say that men corrupted the church. It was an inevitable apostasy, and the restoration was necessary to re-establish truths that had been lost and perverted over many years.
That does not mean EVERYTHING the Christian churches preached was wrong. No, the Bible is proof that God watched over those who loved HIM. What a wondrous miracle it is, and precious.
But, your pride blinds you to the truth of the Book of Mormon. I wonder what particular parts of the Bible you claim to be wrong, or have you even read it with a true intent. I think perhaps not.
You made up your mind by following truthless testimonies, lies, and perversions of truth. You are free to do so.
I know your claims to know Joseph Smith was a fraud. You spew horrible lies, because you want to believe them.
You’re like those learned men, who believe they are wise, but are blinded by their pride. Perhaps praying, studying and being humble would help your attitude towards Joseph Smith. I pray for you. The Lord said to pray for those who hate and despitefully use you. Pray for our enemies, and those who would throw you into prison. If they demand your coat, give them your coat and cloak. If they demand you walk a mile, walk two.
Good night, and have a good weekend.
Godzilla,
I’ve read your profile. I admire you. You have a fine mind, and are sincere in your posts.
Joseph Smith was no false prophet. The lies that people wrote about him are just that, lies.
Joshua 6:1-5 you’re right, I blew it.
However, do you believe that God will not or does not talk to His people whenever He chooses? I do. I know He can do whatsoever He chooses to do, whether other people believe it or not.
Shall we decide that if we don’t like the particular person who is speaking for god, therefore we don’t have to follow what he says?
Are you so sure of YOUR knowledge, that you don’t need to get on your knees, be humble, and ASK God if something is true or not?
I got on my knees. I know that the LDS church is hated, and it will only get worse. Too bad we can’t stand together, without throwing rocks at each other.
You know, if we are divided, we cannot stand. But I say, if we choose to stand with God, nothing can destroy us.
If God could speak in the past, I say He can speak today.
You remark: “And a fickle ‘god’ mormons have. Adam-God doctrine now non-doctrine for example. Which prophet to believe? Are they not the mouthpieces of God. Did ‘god’ have taught that he was Adam? Then why did ‘god’ change his mind later and say he wasn’t. Either young was a false prophet or the latter was - the cannot BOTH be correct on the doctrine. And what of the mormon ‘god’ -seriously confused as to his identity or an out and out liar. “
Your words are not clear to me. If you ask which prophet to believe. I say, believe the one who is speaking right now, for I live right now.
Did God tell Abraham to sacrifice his son? Did Abraham go do it? If God told Abraham to sacrifice his son, and then stopped him, according to your interpretation, Abraham should have ignored the Angel, and completed his assigned task.
God teaches us line upon line, and precept upon precept. Here a little, and there a little, according to our ability to comprehend.
You mock the church’s history of pologemy. (sp)
OK. God gave us a celestial law. It had been allowed in the past. He told certain people to do it again. If you have read any of Joseph Smiths or Brigham Youngs accounts of their receiving this commandment, you would know that it was a terrible thing to them. They delayed implimenting it. Read their accounts. Less than 10 percent of the church were ever authorized to practice it, and there are many accounts about it’s difficulty. When the US Congress decided to make a law against (they who were so WISE), the prophet was told through revelation to abandon it. I personally think that the US Government was so wicked then, as it is now, that they didn’t care at all about marriage, they wanted to take away what little property the Church had.
So, God in HIS WISDOM, knowing that the church needed their property to grow, and teach the whole world about Restored Truths, He commanded the Prophet to dis-continue the practice. God is much wiser that mere man.
There were many prophets before Noah, and the people wouldn’t listen. God removed all prophets but Noah, and he was commanded to still teach and warn the people. But, like people today, prophets are called all sorts of names, while the people laugh, sing, marry and give in marriage. The rains still came didn’t they, whether the people listened and climbed on board, or choose to drown.
Have a good weekend Godzilla. I would rather not throw rocks, cause I live in a glass house. However, I stand firm in my committment to Jesus Christ. Mock Him if you choose.
“Dont you feel blessed to have me to teach you ???”
No, not particularly. But have a nice nite anyway.
What a horrible thing to read, after all the flowery words defending the LDS teachings.
If a LDS has a commitment to Jesus Christ, which one is it?
If one is truely LDS, you have a Jesus Christ that is different than the Biblical Jesus.
It's taught exactly that way by your organization: Jesus has a Father (Heavenly Father in Mormon lingo) who had a father who had a father.
That is not the Biblical Jesus.
The Mormon Jesus has a brother called Satan, the Biblical Jesus does not.
How strange that your very words inferring that someone who believes in the Jesus of the Bible that they are mocking Jesus, when it is your words that degrade Christiainty by co-opting the Biblical Jesus because the LDS Jesus is a false god.
You appear to have chosen to mock Jesus Christ while accusing another of doing so.
No matter how many times I post AUTHENTIC MORMON WRITINGS, LDS members keep wanting to call them 'propaganda'. OH well, I try do (thanks, Yoda!), and WON'T give up.
No matter how many times I post AUTHENTIC MORMON WRITINGS, LDS members keep wanting to call them 'propaganda'. OH well, I try do (thanks, Yoda!), and WON'T give up.
Is MOCKING scientology (what Tom Cruise holds sacred) ALSO 'satanic' in you view?
Ah... a 'statement'!
VERY easy to say - very hard to produce PROOF for!
To Whom It May Concern:
Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy
I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.
One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.
Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.
There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.
WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:
I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.
The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.
Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.
Hebrews 11:35-40
35. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection. 36. Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison. 37. They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated-- 38. the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. |
~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President
It appears that you do not AGREE with the many things that have been SHOWN in this thread, and countless others, that the MORMON religious Organization has PUBLISHED and TAUGHT - with NO retractions of past statements.
If you do NOT agree with them, and cannot DEFEND them, then why are you a MORMON?
Can't you worship GOD anywhere?
Hello!
Do you not remember the LEVITES?
Today, there are as many as 100 organizations claiming to be a part of the Latter Day Saint movement, most centered in Utah or Missouri. Most regard their own group, however small, to be the only legitimate Christian church. Most of these organizations are very small, but overall, but the second largest denomination, the Community of Christ, reports over 200,000 members.
HUH?
Is this a NEW teaching of MORMONism?
So... what did these Elders 'teach' you that was DIFFERENT from what your parents and The Trinity United Church of Christ taught you?
Heck; I wonder which parts are wrong according to the Prophets of the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints!
I've NEVER seen a list; have you?
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