History or Propaganda? Joseph Smith as a Case Study

FAIR LDS ^ | Danel W. Bachman

[Skared2deth]

And we wonder why liberals still defend Obama...

heh... go figure.

[mnehring]

What is even more intriguing is that all of these people actually collaborated on scientific papers that made about as much sense as this.

[SENTINEL]

There is no spinning this pic, no matter how hard mormon in good standing Harry Reid tells you to try.

FLDS/LDS "prophet" Brigham Young and his wives.

[SENTINEL]

Ping, they’re at it again !

[SENTINEL]

Joseph Smith claimed to be greater than Christ as quoted here in this referenced LDS published book.

"Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet...When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go." (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409)

- Joseph Smith, FLDS/LDS "prophet, seer, revelator, and founder.

[Tennessee Nana]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I see the Tanners are quoted...

Who to believe

The mormon FAIR webite or the Tanners...

The mormon agenda driven website paid for by the tithing of the mormon followers of Joey Smith the lying conman...

that doesnt explain the lies told about the LORD Jesus Christ and Christianity...

or the Tanners, Christians who excaped from mormonism and want to rescue others from its chains be exposing the sham that the false prophet Joey Smith invented..

Gollies thats not hard...

The Tanners ...

[Tennessee Nana]

all those girl friends...

Briggie Young was quite the flesh creature...

[Alex Murphy]

History or Propaganda? Joseph Smith as a Case Study

Speaking of propaganda, FAIR has this disclaimer, albeit in tiny print, at the bottom of their home page:

FAIR is not owned, controlled by, or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All research and opinions provided on this site are the sole responsibility of FAIR and should not be interpreted as official statements of LDS doctrine, belief, or practice.

[CanaGuy]

The number of LDS articles on FR is directly proportional to the likelihood of Mitt RomneyCare throwing his tainted hat in the ring. And when he becomes an official candidate, the LDS-apologetics postings will balloon to 10 per hour.... uploaded by an army of MormonTrolls assigned to cleanse FR of any anti-Mittster bias.

Hey, look, I don't care how many bloated articles they post in desperation to validate themselves; folks, this is one weird cult. What other "religion" can claim that, in 1844, it's leading prophet, a mayor and presidential candidate, was gunned down while he was in jail, by vigilantes angry over his threat to shut down a newspaper exposing his polygamous habits? Swell, huh?

Besides, IMHO...... the longer and more unreadable the posted articles, the more likely it is that there is something odd with either the Poster, or the article's content.

Message to Mitt: gather up your personal fortune, move to Bermuda, and take up golf. You might want to leave the LDS-magic-underwear stateside, though, it gets warm down there.

[dixjea]

Nice post. Probably above the head of many superficial or impatient readers. I enjoyed the B.H.Roberts quote that the critics of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are...

“as one who walks through some splendid orchard and gathers here and there the worm-eaten, frost-bitten, wind-blasted, growth-stunted and rotten fruit, which in spite of the best of care is to be found in every orchard; bringing this to us he says: “This is the fruit of yonder orchard; you see how worthless it is; an orchard growing such fruit is ready for the burning.” Whereas, the fact may be that there are tons and tons of beautiful, luscious fruit, as pleasing to the eye as it would be agreeable to the palate, remaining in the orchard to which he does not call our attention at all. Would not such a representation of the orchard be an untruth, notwithstanding his blighted specimens were gathered from its trees? If he presents to us the blighted specimens of fruit from the orchard, is he not in truth and in honor bound also to call our attention to the rich harvest of splendid fruit that still remains ungathered before he asks us to pass judgment on the orchard?

[Cronos]

J SMith had 35 wives !! Man, he must have had a lot of trouble with mothers-in-law!

[RaceBannon]

You sure he didn’t just marry them off to someone to keep them quiet?

[greyfoxx39]

The number of LDS articles on FR is directly proportional to the likelihood of Mitt RomneyCare throwing his tainted hat in the ring. And when he becomes an official candidate, the LDS-apologetics postings will balloon to 10 per hour.... uploaded by an army of MormonTrolls assigned to cleanse FR of any anti-Mittster bias.

It's not only Mitt now. Jon Huntsman, Utah mormon is being touted as a candidate for POTUS also. He may be a bigger threat, as his baggage isn't out in the light of day the way Mitt's is. See more about him on this post and the thread it is in.

comments. The Manchurian Candidate (Jon Huntsman hints about 2012 run)

Jim Robinson may want to keep an eye on posts about him.

[greyfoxx39]

Ping

[antiRepublicrat]

Extensive use of underlining, all capitals and bold--all for emphasis ... This extensive use of emphasis in the closely spaced text of 587-page Shadow-Reality actually discourages reading each word or even every sentence and paragraph, but instead encourages the reader's eye to skip from emphasized words to emphasized words

This author doesn't know his typography. Over-use of emphasis leads the reader to ignore the emphasis.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

The Tanners began the process of pulling back the curtain on Mormonism, the Mystic Maze continued it. The internet is making sure that whereever the cultic missionaries go, they are met with fact, evidence and logic to demonstrate the fallacy of mormonism.

Thank God for the Tanners. Millions are being kept out of the clutches of mormonic slavery.

[greyfoxx39]

The author of this article is interesting. He seems to have written the primer for the arguments we see all the time on FR. Note that he presents everything as true, because it all started with a revelation from the Lord to Joseph Smith.

Correspondence between Doug Harris (ROT) and Dan Bachman

Letters from Daniel W. Bachman

 

In reading your introductory material on Mormonism, I came across a curious statement that Mormons believe Joseph Smith is more important that Jesus Christ.  I could find no documentation for this statement, although I surveyed everything I could find on your pages.  The only thing that I could find that would remotely suggest this, is your statement that Jesus will be the Judge not Joseph Smith.

This leads me to a comment and then a question.  I teach in the Church Educational System for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  I've been doing so for 31 years.  I have never taught nor have any of the scores of colleagues with whom I have worked ever taught such a thing.  I have been in hundreds, probably thousands of Church meetings, symposia, CES in-service and training meetings, at Church General Conferences and under the tutelage of many general authorities of the church in many of these settings.  Never have I heard this doctrine taught.  Moreover, I've read widely in LDS literature and I have never read anyone say that Joseph Smith is more important that Jesus Christ.  Furthermore, I don't know anyone in the Church who believes it.  If I were to say that in any congregation in the Church the audience would be appalled.  Moreover, if perchance you harbor the notion that this is something we really believe but don't want the world to know, your equally mistaken.  The Church nor its people are trying to cover up something here we secretly believe and only tell people on the QT after they have joined the Church. We are a quite open people.  We publish our literature and sermons to the world.  And I believe you know that there is plenty there for people to take pot shots at.  But teaching that Joseph Smith is more important that Jesus Christ isn't one of them.  To believe otherwise is a figment of the imagination.

 

In reading your introductory material on Mormonism, I came across a curious statement that Mormons believe Joseph Smith is more important that Jesus Christ.  I could find no documentation for this statement, although I surveyed everything I could find on your pages.  The only thing that I could find that would remotely suggest this, is your statement that Jesus will be the Judge not Joseph Smith.

-SNIP-

 

If as I suspect you are deriving this notion from statements made by some early Mormon leaders to the effect that Joseph Smith will participate in the Judgment, which I do not deny, then I think you seriously misread those sources for two reasons.  1) Even in those statements, they do not say it is the belief of the Church that Joseph is more important than Jesus, therefore, it would be an interpretation of the meaning of that idea on your part, not on our part that is at question.  No informed Mormon I know interprets those statements in that fashion.  2) Inasmuch as the Lord told his 12 apostles they would sit on twelve thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel (Lk. 22:30), would you say that Jesus and the early Christians, or anyone who believes in the Bible for that matter, would be guilty of saying the 12 were more important that Jesus?  Nobody really believes that, because it is absurd.  One may participate with the Lord in judgment and not supersede him.  That is how Mormons interpret the statements about Joseph's participation in Judgment.

 

Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save^[*] Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. (Emphasis ours - SHIELDS)
(D&C 135:3 [written by John Taylor, an apostle at the time, and later President of the Church])

"....Joseph told us that Jesus was the Christ, the Mediator between God and man, and the Saviour of the world.  He told us that there was no other name in the heavens nor under the heavens, neither could there be, by which mankind could be saved in the presence of the Father, but by and through the name and ministry of Jesus Christ, and the atonement he made on Mount Calvary."  (Emphasis ours - SHIELDS)
(Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 9:364-365, 31 August 1862)
(Provided courtesy of Danel W. Bachman)

"I shall bow to Jesus, my Governor, and under him, to brother Joseph.  Though he has gone behind the vail [sic], and I cannot see him, he is my head, under Jesus Christ and the ancient Apostles, and I shall go ahead and build up the kingdom."  (Emphasis ours - SHIELDS)
(Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 4:41, 31 August 1856.)
(Provided courtesy of Danel W. Bachman)

From  Joseph Smith among the Prophets

 http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=d496425e0848b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

Robert L. Millet, "Joseph Smith among the Prophets", Ensign, June 1994, 19

President Brigham Young uttered this bold statement: “Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians … that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ. …

“Should not this thought comfort all people? They will, by-and-by, be … thankful for such a man as Joseph Smith, junior. … It is his mission to see that all the children of men in this last dispensation are saved, that can be, through the redemption” (in Journal of Discourses, 7:289; emphasis added).

[fishtank]

He “hit it”

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I might have lost count, but hey, what does it matter when it comes to serial horndoggery, lust, adultery, wifestealing and perversion???

[fishtank]

“he must have had a lot of trouble with mothers-in-law! “

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he was probably doing half of them, though, NO TROUBLE AT ALL!!!!

\sarc