Happy excommunication dayMartin Luther excommunicated

This Day in History ^ | 01/03/2011 | not stated

[RnMomof7]

On January 3, 1521, Pope Leo X issues the papal bull Decet Romanum Pontificem, which excommunicates Martin Luther from the Catholic Church.

Martin Luther, the chief catalyst of Protestantism, was a professor of biblical interpretation at the University of Wittenberg in Germany when he drew up his 95 theses condemning the Catholic Church for its corrupt practice of selling indulgences, or the forgiveness of sins. He followed up the revolutionary work with equally controversial and groundbreaking theological works, and his fiery words set off religious reformers all across Europe.

In January 1521, Pope Leo X excommunicated Luther. Three months later, Luther was called to defend his beliefs before Holy Roman Emperor Charles V at the Diet of Worms, where he was famously defiant. For his refusal to recant his writings, the emperor declared him an outlaw and a heretic. Luther was protected by powerful German princes, however, and by his death in 1546, the course of Western civilization had been significantly altered.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

you appear to be an expert on “orthodox, historic Christianity”, i’ve been looking for a man such as yourself. please tell me when did the Catholic Church begin, who was it’s founder and what happened to the Apostolic Church, where was it in the 2nd century, 3rd century, etc. Tell me how this non-Catholic Church put the Bible together and tell me how it dealt with the heresy of the Catholic Church when it came on the scene. I will be fascinated to be schooled by an expert in history such as yourself.
Also, since you are a Bible expert, please explain 2 Thessalonians 2:15 as it relates to the command by St Paul to keep the traditions taught to them by either letter or word of mouth.
thank you.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

any fair reader of these threads will notice one thing immediately, the Catholics accurately describe Protestant belief ( or at least try to ) whereas most, if not all, Protestants completely disregard what Catholics actually say about their own doctrine. your post is classic. Sacred Tradition is not above Sacred Scripture, they are equally the same as they both are Divine Revelation and have the Holy Spirit as their author. Your statement about rituals and works of art are completely off the wall, the priority of Catholic worship is the worshipping God the Father, by lifting up His Son and His atoning sacrifice, through and by the power of the Holy Spirit. This “ritual” is the same for 20 centuries now, and will continue until Jesus comes again.
one rule of debate that is always true, is if you have to misrepresent your opponent’s position, you are admitting yourself you are losing the debate. you hold to the unbiblical position of “sola scriptura”. Since the Apostle Paul taught keeping tradition by word of mouth, why don’t you? For example, when St. Andrew or St. Thomas preached to the Gentiles, did the Gentiles say “write your words down so we can accept it as Sacred Scripture”? Of course not!! They were mighty men of God and brought many to Christ, all by word of mouth, that was just as much Divine Revelation as an epistle from St Paul. Show me from the Bible where in fact we are commanded to believe “sola scriptura” or are you following this “tradition of men”? Without the Church, we actually would have no definitive way to know what the true books belong in the Bible and which ones were false. And there is no getting around it, the Church decided which books were canonical by matching them against the Sacred Tradition they received from the Apostles, when it matched, as the book of Romans for example, it was accepted. Who wrote the book of Hebrews?? No one knows, yet, by tradition, you accept it as Scripture. Why?

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

sorry, maybe if you announced who you were at the start of the Mass, the priest and worshippers would have tried harder to impress you, because that is what’s important!!

[Cronos]

Protestants completely disregard what Catholics actually say about their own doctrine.

Correctly put, for instance, when we repeatedly tell them over and over again that A Catholic is not saved by any means other than the Grace of God, in the name of Jesus, His Son who lived, died and rose for our sins to be forgiven thus opening the gates of heaven.

One can repeat this over and over yet the refrain remains the same.

Salvation as taught by the Church comes from Christ's sacrifice.



For example, here is the Redemptoris Missal by Pope John Pail II in 1990 4. In my first encyclical, in which I set forth the program of my Pontificate, I said that "the Church's fundamental function in every age, and particularly in ours, is to direct man's gaze, to point the awareness and experience of the whole of humanity toward the mystery of Christ."4

The Church's universal mission is born of faith in Jesus Christ, as is stated in our Trinitarian profession of faith: "I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father.... For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man."5 The redemption event brings salvation to all, "for each one is included in the mystery of the redemption and with each one Christ has united himself forever through this mystery."6 It is only in faith that the Church's mission can be understood and only in faith that it finds its basis.

5. If we go back to the beginnings of the Church, we find a clear affirmation that Christ is the one Savior of all, the only one able to reveal God and lead to God. In reply to the Jewish religious authorities who question the apostles about the healing of the lame man, Peter says: "By the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by him this man is standing before you well.... And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:10, 12). This statement, which was made to the Sanhedrin, has a universal value, since for all people-Jews and Gentiles alike - salvation can only come from Jesus Christ.

Grace is not just God's loving kindness, favor or mercy, but God’s divine life itself, which enables the work of Christ to flow through us. Through Adam, we have been dis-graced and separated from God, and in Christ, we are restored to grace and reconciled to God. Through grace people can become new creations, "partakers of the divine nature."[2 Pet. 1:4]

" the Church's fundamental function in every age, and particularly in ours, is to direct man's gaze, to point the awareness and experience of the whole of humanity toward the mystery of Christ. Christ is the one Savior of all, the only one able to reveal God and lead to God "

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

i am a simple man who asks simple questions. The Protestants on here that i have encountered are very good at misrepresenting Church teaching, but when confronted with facts, they run away. Has anyone answered any question i have thrown out? that in itself, should give pause to any Protestant wondering about Christ’s Church and where it can be found on earth.

[Just mythoughts]

Oh please a tad bit of honesty here, and since I married into a Catholic family I have some first hand experience. I know full well that since I am not Catholic it is taught and believed that I will not receive the same award. Old Teddy Kennedy is far more respected than I would ever be, not that I am seeking that kind of flesh respect. God Himself says He is NOT a respecter of persons, and I have no doubt there is going to be some shock and awe when some find out who all is found waiting inside the ‘pearly’ gates.

[Cronos]

Note that there are two types of posters here besides Catholics:

1. Non-Catholics, Christian Protestants: These are Lutherans, ANglicans, Methodists, Arminians, even some Baptists and Presbyterians. They are the ones who do not lie, do not throw some false statement and say "you believe this, I say so, so now prove me wrong" or post fake links or pictures. These are true Christians who disagree with the Church on some point and sincerly wish to convert us to what they believe. We may disagree with them but we can discuss this in the love of Christ.

2. Anti-Catholics -- this is a small group in reality and form a tiny fraction of the not Catholic posters on religion threads, BUT THEY SHOUT the loudest. These are
   2a. though they may portray themselves as doctors, moms, cool dudes etc, are all either members of the OPC (membership 20,000 -- and a non-Christian group) or the PCA (membership 300,000)
or
   2b. non-Trinitarians (Unitarians, Jehovah's Witnesses, Messianic Judaism followers, etc.) or clueless (the cool ones with no screen names or others). These will lie and use every vile trick to spread their hate. They seek not to convert you -- you can read it in their posts, they seek a channel for their hatred. It's what they are taught in their groups or it's an outlet for their inferiority complexes. To argue with these is futile as they care not for your soul but for their hate. They will espouse that they are of an elite caste above all and they will use insulting language when speaking to you instead of debating. And you will notice that they only know a few verses from the Bible that they quote -- it's what is fed them in their hate groups.

To the second type -- ignore. As a Lutheran poster I respect once posted

There is a difference between anti-Catholicism and Christianity, just as there is a difference between anti-Protestantism and Christianity. The line between either of the two is not always easy to find; and it is regularly transgressed from both sides with the result of doing so being anger, misunderstanding, misuse of God’s Word, closing of mind and heart, communication that grieves the heart of Him who so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, and scandal that engenders scorn in the hearts of unbelieving, but often sincerely inquiring, observers.

Wrath always destroys. That is why it must be used sparingly, with great care, and with a laser-like focus. Sometimes, yes, it is necessary. But it never builds up.

[caww]

maybe if you announced who you were at the start of the Mass

Though I think it unnecessary to announce ones presence when entering a church to worship God, I am quite aware the catholic church prefers one to introduce himself formerly. Thus a door-side introduction to the appointed greeter was sufficient and more than satisfied the inquiry. But aside from this point you've made concerning introductions...and who are not desires to impress. My purpose there was neither to make myself known nor be impressed by the rituals and or the pomp. Rather was the spirit of Christ present among His people...and that not meaning in the elements.........again I say..."I was not impressed."

[caww]

But it never builds up.

It's not intended to build up...rather tear down the walls of everything which sets itself up against the glory of God..... And when one uses the mighty sword of God, to bring down those strongholds, no doubt you may indeed hear the sound of it's blade thru the air. Then when it strikes it's target... and as the strongholds begin to crumble.... you will see dust in the air. Only then will you see a restoration begin..... with a "still soft voice".

[Cronos]

Hate is not of God. To spread hate as the anti-Catholic posters (among whom I do not include you btw as you seek to truly convert us, not hurl insults) is not of the God of Love

[CTrent1564]

Yorkie:

Quix’s charge in all Caps was honoring Mary is idolatry and worship of Mary. That is nonsense and clearly wrong.

As for him posting scripture, I can go on-line and post passages or heck, the entire OT and NT and he can do the same. Ok, so what do we get into, “a who can post more scripture on-line battle”

The question is how was Faith understood down thru the centuries for I did not invent my own faith, rather it is something received from Christ thru the Apostles thru the 1st generation of the Church Fathers as the Apostolic period ended with the Death of the St. John the Apostle, and thus the Church’s Faith and Tradition and how it honored Mary takes is referred to in the NT [see Luke Chapter 1] and John’s Gospel in the Crucifixion narrative and was believed by all of the orthodox Church Fathers in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th centuries, etc, etc.

It was these Men and their theological work agaisnt the heretical groups who ultimately shaped and defined what was the Canonical Scriptures and what were to be the authentic dogmas and Doctrines that the Church professed.

If Quix does not believe in Honoring Mary, find, then that is fine, but his position is the “anomaly” and is clearly the one that is of more “recent origin” and his charge that honoring Mary is akin to idolatry and worship of Mary is pure fiction and is product of the infallible decrees of himself which as I have always said, the Protestant notion of “sola scriptura” [a novel doctrine] leads to “sola meo and sola ego” and makes everyone their own authority as to what is sound and orthodox doctrine.

[bonfire]

According to all the RC’s I grew up they were taught he’s burning in hell. Heard it over and over that he was the devil on earth.

[Quix]

Presently No Screen Name;

I greatly agree with you.

However, I believe that Heaven will have many from all remotely Christian groups . . . some a relatively small percentage of the whole organization and some a larger percentage. And only God knows their hearts.

Yes, some groups are hideous in their idolatries and blasphemies. Yet, Scripture teaches that all our hearts are deceitfully wicked, who but Holy Spirit can know them.

There's plenty for all of us to be humble about.

There's nothing but God and His work in us for any of us to glory in.

Yes, Yorkie, there is a big umbrella of Christ's Blood and Christ's Love. And, folks who make THOSE FITTING PRIORITY have relatively no problem loving one another and sounding and acting like it.

However, I also believe that Christ calling the pharisees vipers, white-washed tombs and sons of satan was His most loving wake-up call--the most loving thing He could say to them.

The following post from:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2650903/posts?page=184#184

expresses my convictions and perspective as well as I've managed, so far, on such scores:

To: netmilsmom; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...

When it’s making fun of people for their beliefs or insisting that I believe what I do not, what would you call it but “bashing”?

Welllllllll, Dear Heart, I think I UNDERSTAND your feelings. However, please consider:

1. I consider it a GROSSLY OFFENSIVE MOCKERY AND INSULT to Biblical Christianity (and actually to the authentic Mary) for "Christians" to [Quixicated emphases]:

A) Pray TO Mary [all the worse when they do but claim they don't.]

B) Label Mary Mediatrix and the like.

C) Label Mary Queen of Heaven.

D) Dispenser of "all" graces.

E) Queen of sinners

F) Ruler of hell

G) "the tree of life."

H) "Spouse of the Holy Spirit,"

I) "Complement of the most august Trinity"

J) "that SHE might VANQUISH SIN IN EVERY RESPECT"

K) "Mary is the dawn of God"

L) "No one can go to God without Mary drawing him"

M) "Mary . . . desroyed sin."

N) It was also through HER that this salvation was wrought."

O) "...so Mary saves all the souls that entrust themselves TO HER CARE."

P) "...she participates in the INFINITE SANCTITY OF GOD."

-----------------

REF:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2503880/posts?page=1576#1576

---------------------

2. Perhaps it is difficult to impossible for an RC so encultureated and propagantized as well as ritualized so extensively in Mary adoration/veneration/worship to appreciate how

3. MUCH A SUPER MOCKERY AND OFFENSE EACH OF THOSE PHRASES, ASSERTIONS ARE

4. to some Proddys, to our Christianity, to our Lord, and even to our understanding of the authentic Mary (as opposed to such a trumped up caricature of the authentic Mary that such phrases display).

5. More often than not, some of our feeble counter-mockery and satire is THE BEST WE CAN DO to manage any meaningful, emotionally potent, communicatively impactful reply to centuries of such !!!!TRADITION!!!! bound super institutionalized horrific stuff on the part of the Vatican institution so massive, politically, sociologically and media powerful and so far spread.

6. Even at Dr E and my fiercest, we can still only offer a COMPARATIVELY candle worth of truth and counter-mockery in reply in terms of the intensity and impact. We are as mere bacteria on the fleas on the mouse jousting with the Vatican elephant.

7. I feebly offer satire etc. as mirrored illustrations as well as a more or less EMOTIONALLY EQUAL, COMMUNICATIVELY EQUAL INTENSITY of the mockery and intensity of the RC assertions. It's the best I can do. I recognize it's inadequate against the Vatican edifice.

8. However, the TRUTH I/we stand for is not weak or inadequate. And just MAYBE such satire and mockery will arrest someone's glib surface scanning long enough to allow Holy Spirit to provoke some serious pondering toward truthful insight about serious BIBLICAL, historical, theological TRUTH.

9. RC's and Mormons may well FEEL BASHED just as Pentecostals can often feel bashed hereon--actually, Pentecostalism is frequently bashed.

10. However, I'm not BASHING them as individuals. I'm not even bashing the whole of their organizations. The LDS institution does many fine works for the poor and they tend to take care of their own far better than most Evangelical groups. And, the RCC does many good works in behalf of the poor. And certainly I applaud Charismatic Roman Catholic groups generally.

11. Now the victims of the Mountain Meadows Massacre had a right to feel BASHED . . . or shot dead.

12. I don't typcially make fun of INDIVIDUALS . . . except for those who beg me to do so.

184 posted on Monday, January 03, 2011 12:58:34 PM by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)

imho, Dear Dear Yorkie; folks who attempt peace making and spreading oil on troubled waters are to be encouraged. There are times when the Biblical injunction to buy a sword [and using it] is also fitting.

However, on the whole, the vast majority of the time, I think your stance is a wise one--generally.

Yet, there are times, issues and stances on critical priorities when a fierce response IS the most loving thing one can offer.

imho, of course.

Love you and Tia Pam dearly. I pray the weather is agreeable. Snow in your area is so beautiful against the red rocks. Hope Christmas was as you two wished. A blessed New Year to you both.

When it’s making fun of people for their beliefs or insisting that I believe what I do not, what would you call it but “bashing”?

[Quix]

That was my experience, too.

However, I was impressed by some individuals who, from their spirits and facial expressions and body language . . . did show Christ’s love, focus and priorities.

[bkaycee]

yes

So, in your affirmation, you seem to be saying the Orthodox, and non Latins MUST submit to the Pope for salvation according to Boniface?

[Quix]

[Quix]

The Vatican Alice In Wonderland School Of Theology and Reality Mangling

documented beliefs, writings, practices,
ACTIONS-LOUDER-THAN-ANY-WORDS,
preachments, rants, pontifications, encyclicals and even the Catechism,
ARE ALL OVER THE WATERFRONT!
Which, evidently,
is why Scuba Teddy can still get a great
RC Pomp and Circumstance Funeral

and Puhlousey can still claim to be a wonderful Roman Catholic.

Any purported Roman Catholic can easily find some Bishop, some paragraph in some Encyclical or even the Catechism, some sermon, some pamphlet, to justify believing and doing jolly well almost whatever they wish.
AND
DENIAL
REMAINS UNCONVINCING AND UNIMPRESSIVE.

[Al Hitan]

Hitler regarded himself as a Catholic until he died. "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941.

Tammy Faye Baker claimed Satan said he was a member in good standing of the Orthodox Presbbyterian Church.

[xone]

ph

[Iscool]

You guys keep telling us that once a Catholic, always a Catholic...You can’t quit the Catholic religion...

You guys really ought to figure out what your religion teaches you...You’re consistently inconsistent...