Happy excommunication dayMartin Luther excommunicated

This Day in History ^ | 01/03/2011 | not stated

[RnMomof7]

On January 3, 1521, Pope Leo X issues the papal bull Decet Romanum Pontificem, which excommunicates Martin Luther from the Catholic Church.

Martin Luther, the chief catalyst of Protestantism, was a professor of biblical interpretation at the University of Wittenberg in Germany when he drew up his 95 theses condemning the Catholic Church for its corrupt practice of selling indulgences, or the forgiveness of sins. He followed up the revolutionary work with equally controversial and groundbreaking theological works, and his fiery words set off religious reformers all across Europe.

In January 1521, Pope Leo X excommunicated Luther. Three months later, Luther was called to defend his beliefs before Holy Roman Emperor Charles V at the Diet of Worms, where he was famously defiant. For his refusal to recant his writings, the emperor declared him an outlaw and a heretic. Luther was protected by powerful German princes, however, and by his death in 1546, the course of Western civilization had been significantly altered.

[metmom]

MeganC, after much meandering you have come to the heart of the matter... John 1. While Protestants hold up the Word of God written, Catholics hold up the Word of God made flesh. Is there a difference? Yes... in completeness (again, John 21:25).

What a joke......

The Catholic church appeals to *tradition*, not Christ.

And your analysis of what the Protestants hold up is flawed (as expected from a Catholic) as well. Catholics simply have no practical working knowledge of what Protestants really believe.

Protestants appeal to Scripture as the sole point of authority for what they believe, knowing that it points to Christ, who is the only one exalted in the non-Catholic denominations.

Catholicism appeals to tradition, the writings of this, that, and the other *church father*, dictates passed down from elected popes, etc. and exalts all kinds of people and objects to the point where Christ is lost in the shuffle.

[Claud]

Of course. Blame every one but the RC church.

Ok fine metmom. So we live in a majority Protestant country right? So why did Protestants legalize abortion? Why did they legalize gay marriage in some states? Why did they encourage and defend slavery?

What's that? These were people who were Christian/Protestant in name only doing this? The respective denominations had nothing to do with it? Oh sure....blame everyone but the Protestant churches right?

Is logic so dead that we can't understand the basic idea that religious *people* can be jackasses even when the religion itself isn't condoning it? Seriously?

[dangerdoc]

You posted:

1. The Church must have its historical origins in Christ.
2. The Church must have authority.
3. The Church must have autonomy from temporal powers.
4. The Church must have a sacrifice to offer.
5. The Church must have an altar on which to offer the sacrifice.
6. The Church must have a priesthood to offer the sacrifice.

I can see where you are going with statements 1-3.
Statements 3-6 seem to contradict New Testament teaching.

[Hieronymus]

Something like 300,000 words,, never mentions the words Hitler, NSDAP, Jew, or excommunication. Need an attorney to wade through that. And if that was the official guidance,,, we wouldnt find war criminals running tothe casual for false papers after the war would we?

---

First you complain that the Church said nothing, and now you complain that the Church said too much for you to gother to read. Your microsoft office must be off, it only runs a bit over 8000—and to think the whole of it was read in every single Catholic Church in Germany at every single Sunday Mass that weekend. You will find the word “German” 19 times. Try reading section 8.

[RnMomof7]

The Church’s doctrine is based upon divine revelation, which is a grace. Some of this revelation was written down by the Church. And, if you are of the mind of St. Augustine, and believe the Church, you then believe the scriptures because the Church says that you should. “I would not believe the holy Gospels if it were not for the authority of the Holy Catholic Church.” (If you want a work and section citation for the quote from Augustine, I could dig it up, but google isn’t bringing up people for me at the moment who are so precise).

And how do you know that the revelation is of God and not Satan or men? What is it held against for a measuring rod?

[metmom]

No, the term *trinity*.

Else you ought to be consistent in the standards you apply and allow for Scripture alone to be defended from proof texts as the trinity is.

The RC church is the master at applying double standards to others. Rules for thee but not for me.

They don’t allow others to do what they allow for themselves, thus we have the papacy, the immaculate conception, the assumption of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, all taught as official church doctrine with NO Scriptural proof.

But by gosh, those Protestants had better be able to show that the term *sola scriptura* is in the Bible somewhere or it’s heresy.

The word *hypocrite* is in the Bible and that is someone who says one thing and does another.

[Cardhu]

What would have been so wrong to expect the alleged representative of God on earth to clearly state that all Nazis and communists are officially excommunicated."

How unthinkable would that be? Excommunication for the good buddy of his great friend and benefactor, Benito Mussolini. Mussolini, who made the papacy what it is today - a pseudo State.

Mussolini, the great friend of Pius XII, although, certainly not of the Italian people who shot him and hung him upside down from a lamp post.

Excommunication is for the good sisters not the Fascist brothers

Religions are about two things, money and power, the flock, well conditioning in magical thinking, will always dance to the wizard's tune. They are helpless to act in any other manner without bringing on the supernova that would destroy their narrowly defined universe.

Seems like a small thing to ask of someone who claims to bear the legacy of Peter

For the faithful that would seem so - but the Pope lives in the world of power and reality, and, after the loss of the churches, monasteries, cathedrals and more importantly the revenue, trying that gambit with Henry - I doubt any Pope will be as foolish again.

[Natural Law]

"To say the Holy Roman Empire was completely secular from The Pope, is just lying."

By the late middle ages the Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy nor Roman. It was an confederation of independent, primarily German principalities. The Emperor was not chosen by the Pope, but by a Kurfürsten, an electoral body made up of seven princes established by the Golden Bull of 1356 issued by Emperor Charles IV. The Pope's involvement with the Golden Bull of 1356 was basically nonexistent, he had no representation in the agreement, no input and no authority to confirm or veto.

To knowingly state anything other than the truth is a lie. Look to your own actions before you accuse.

[metmom]

That’s the kind of moral evasion I would expect from Ford motor company, Bayer, etc. The church has a higher duty to loudly oppose evil. Hitler was an altar boy at some point. Several of his cohorts had been catholics too. The church was aware that many catholics had fallen into error by supporting the nazis. They did wrong by not throwing all their moral weight into the fight. There’s no excuse for them not clearly stating that if you are a member of the nazi our communist partyparty, you are excommunicated. Anything else is papal bull, an evasion.

The way the church today is clear on abortion is an example of how they should have acted back then.

Except that even on the abortion issue today, the church is all talk and precious little action.

There's basically no difference.

[bkaycee]

1. The Church must have its historical origins in Christ.
2. The Church must have authority.
3. The Church must have autonomy from temporal powers.
4. The Church must have a sacrifice to offer.
5. The Church must have an altar on which to offer the sacrifice.
6. The Church must have a priesthood to offer the sacrifice.

Can you think of any modern institutions which qualify?

The One True Church that Jesus started!

The Orthodox Church, offcourse. ;)

[metmom]

They managed to get all the other personal pronouns correct in their translation, did they not?

[Natural Law]

"The Catholic church mistranslated Genesis 3:15 and used the personal pronoun *she* instead of *he*."

Does your computer not have a monitor because this oft repeated canard has been refuted ad naseum, yet you apparently failed to see it. Perhaps the problem is with the programming between the keyboard and the chair.

The translation error you attribute to the Church appeared in an early version of the Latin Vulgate due to a Greek to Latin translation error by St. Jerome. It gave rise to some misunderstandings, it was not done to foster them as Tyndale sought to do.

[metmom]

Ok fine metmom. So we live in a majority Protestant country right? So why did Protestants legalize abortion? Why did they legalize gay marriage in some states? Why did they encourage and defend slavery?

You mean like Pelosi, Kennedy, Kerry, etc., all offically pro-abort Catholics who the RCC has not yet taken any official action on?

When all Catholics vote conservative and the Catholic church ex-communicates those well known Catholic politicians who support and pass legislation to further the leftist, socialist agenda, then you can point fingers.

[Claud]

But the Mortara case illustrates the exact opposite of what you are drawing from it.

The servant girl acted on absolutely no authority to baptize him. It shouldn’t have been done at all, as Baptism of a child requires the permission of at least one parent.

But once it was done, the nature of Baptism and the admittedly bad legislation of the Papal States at the time conspired to make the confiscation (sadly, IMHO) legal.

That’s exactly what I said earlier—people acting on their own created these problems for the Church. And if you’d like to make the argument that Pius IX was ridiculously rigid here, go ahead. I might even agree. But if that girl had respected the law of the Church in the first place, Edgardo Mortara would never have been baptized. So how does this case prove the Church endorsed forced Baptism?

[BlueDragon]

You said in part;

You follow Grace alone, Faith alone and Bible alone. In that, you must trust to private revelation and interpretation which has been decried numerous times on this thread.

Please, discuss the issues all you want, but try not to personalize them, if you can.

How would you "know" what I follow? I never said I strictly followed the SOLAS alone, now did I? My comments were more towards the historical.

As to trusting private revelations, now that you have personalized that also, may I ask; have you ever been given any sort of 'revelation' yourself?

There are many false revelations of course, but that doesn't make all of them fake.

Deciding many years later (by committee), sometimes centuries later, which ones were from the Lord, and which entirely not, isn't a methodology in which I would alone put all my trust...

Abraham had it tough. He didn't (we can safely assume?) have much to consult with to help guide him as to "is this the Creator speaking to me, or...?"

How did he manage to make the right choice?

♫:"Father Abraham, had many sons,
Many sons had fa-ather Abraham...♫

Are you one of them?

[Natural Law]

" Hitler was an altar boy at some point."

As is demonstrated by several of the evil anti-Catholics it is not where you begin your path to Salvation, but where you end it. Hitler, like his sympathetic anti-Catholic posters, began life as a Catholic, but choose a different course.

[CTrent1564]

Jewbacca:

The Spainish Inquisition did not force Jews to Convert. The choice was be deported or convert if you wish to stay in Spain. The Inquisition was an investigation of heretical Catholics, many of which were former Jews who had converted “conversos” but were secretly conspiring with the Moslems who Spain was engaged in a a war of re-conquest since the Moslems invaded Spain in the 7th century.

All the inquisition in the end actually did to Jews was expel them from the country. I don’t have the exact date but I think it was Queen Isabella’s edict issued in December in 1492. The Jews were given 3 months to wind up their affairs and then deported.

The Moslems after being finally defeated were forced to leave immediately and return back to Northern Africa and Middle east from whence they came.

When one such as yourself wants to flame in a post, you should at least get your history and the historical context correct. Both groups were given the chance to convert but it was not at the sword. It was deportation or conversion, although Jews were treated less harshly than the moslems as again, the Jews were given 3 months to sell their property and take their belongings with them.

The Moslems on the other hand, it was basically your deported and gone from Spain.

[BlueDragon]

Once they “let go” [of the wafer] as you put it, they are no longer interposing themselves. Ok, I think I’ve got it now.

[MeganC]

Protestants hold up the Word of God as written, true. In such things as the Ten Commandments those Words were literally written by the Hand of God. We also hold up the fact of the Word made flesh and we reflect on the words of Jesus and His Apostles, as well.

And we stop right there.

Some Catholics, as is witnessed in this very topic, go into heretical beliefs when they place the authority of men above the authority of God and Jesus. To say that the RCC is of greater authority than God or Jesus is quite the statement of hubris.

[MeganC]

Good point.