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To: Secret Agent Man
"To say the Holy Roman Empire was completely secular from The Pope, is just lying."

By the late middle ages the Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy nor Roman. It was an confederation of independent, primarily German principalities. The Emperor was not chosen by the Pope, but by a Kurfürsten, an electoral body made up of seven princes established by the Golden Bull of 1356 issued by Emperor Charles IV. The Pope's involvement with the Golden Bull of 1356 was basically nonexistent, he had no representation in the agreement, no input and no authority to confirm or veto.

To knowingly state anything other than the truth is a lie. Look to your own actions before you accuse.

188 posted on 01/03/2011 2:23:44 PM PST by Natural Law (In Hoc Signo Vinces)
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To: Natural Law

It is well known Charles V knew the political power of the Roman church - most of the time he agreed with the Popes in terms of what THEY wanted done.

The very fact first the Pope issued a bull against Luther condemning him, and then later in 1521 the EMPEROR Charles V CONVENED the Imperial Diet of Worms (not the Pope), and summoned Luther to attend, you cannot say Charles was a secular ruler. Not if you are using the word “secular” as it is used today in 21st century America.

The end result of the Diet of Worms was the Edict of Worms, where the EMPEROR declared Luther an outlaw? Why? Because Luther would not recant his Christian beliefs that he wrote. Further the edict issued by the emperor banned people from Luther’s christian writings and called to burn all existing copies. To say these are the act of a “secular emperor” is ridiculous. The whole reason for the emperor’s edict making Luther an outlaw was RELIGIOUS IN NATURE.

I have my facts straight.


204 posted on 01/03/2011 3:05:09 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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