Responding to the “that’s not official doctrine” deflection

Mormon Coffee (Mormonism Research Ministry) ^ | April 9, 2009 | Aaron Shafovaloff

[Elsie]

You actually undermine it by making it an unwelcome place for those who are members of the most politically conservative religion in America.

And this is supposed to make it ok for MORMONism to advance it's heretical cause?

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Suck it up and take it; because WE are going NOWHERE!

[Elsie]

That is a much better strategy than hand-wringing. mere accusations.

There is one known as the ACCUSER of the BRETHREN...

[Tennessee Nana]

Happy New Year Tadpole, honey...

:)

[Elsie]

Spiff I won't recite (you wouldn't likely be interested, anyway) in the long litany of comments made vs. Christians and the Christian church by Mormons for all these years.

GOOD!

That's MY job!

[Tennessee Nana]

You tell em big brother...

MormonDudee (MormonDudes lil sis When would be a good time this evening for 2 cold and hungry errr nice and well trained young mormon missionaries to come over to your Christian neighbor’s house to tell them about the twoo gospel so they can start the New Year off right ?)

[Tennessee Nana]

PS they had to sell their bicycles for food err for more material. They tried to throw in the ties but they got to keep them...I wonder why...

[Elsie]

To: Paradox

 

 

Please: do NOT bring up POLITICS in the RELIGION Forum!

 

 

 46.4 posted on Friday, December 31, 2010 3:38:57 PM by Non-Religion_Moderator (Q is my mentor)

[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies | Report Abuse]

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[Elsie]

The mormons believe that their mormon holy ghost did something so naughty that he/she will never get a body...

Oh; You might have a point.

It's the BLACK folks who did something naughty in the PRE-EXISTANCE to be cursed with a BLACK skin!

[Tennessee Nana]

This is just not true.
____________________________________

Which part dear ???

The fact that the mormon holy ghost has no body

or the fact that the holy ghost did something extra naughty ???

Lets examine this shall we...

Yes we shall...

Did the mormon holy ghost get nice gifts from Santa ???

or just a lump of coal ???

Is he riding a new bike ???

[Elsie]

 

 

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"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young - President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.

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Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

  2 Nephi 5: 21    'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

  Alma 3: 6    'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'

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August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)

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 1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."

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We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.

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Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."

(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).

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When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."

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When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."

(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)

[greyfoxx39]

greyfoxxx39..."You've posted a total of 734 threads and 20,909 replies."

In those hundreds of threads and thousands of replies, many times I have posted irrefutable information from LDS leaders and official sources on mormon doctrine.

Since the admittedly minor point of whether mormons remove the word cross from some of their hymns was felt to be such a major point to post about, why don't you do some more research into these thousands of posts and find something doctrinally incorrect to discuss?

The mormon response to our threads and posts is primarily whining about the fact that we are free to post this information, instead of actually presenting point-by-point doctrinal information proving us wrong.

It appears that rather than "discussion" mormons prefer lecturing on closed threads. I guess having a million full-time missionaries over the years doing the heavy work has either made FR mormons lazy...or unequipped.

[Paragon Defender]

Seekers of truth,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the "quotation" the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.Later they will have the audacity to claim they were "only" quoting our own material.  

They will of course insist ad nauseum that they are merely using our sources and are therefore innocent of any deceptive practice. LDS persons have no issue whatsoever having our scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is rarely (if ever) done.

Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn't been addressed a hundred times before.

You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful or insulting terms or language and/or pictures. That's a Christlike thing to do right? Yeah I don't think so either. It does speak volumes about them though.

Some of them claim being some sort of special witness to you as being supposedly former Mormons. So someone who is an ex-member of any organization would never have an axe to grind or have reason to try to justify their actions by any means? Perhaps not but perhaps so. The LDS Church gains members from other denominations as well as others faiths all the time. This doesn't make them an expert on anything and you certainly won't hear them attacking their forner Church.

Frequently they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever "issue" they seem to be "revealing" or "exposing". I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the "ahah" moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there's nothing new here. It's all been addressed many times before.

The latest twist in the anti-Mormon propaganda machine is to actually go to the links provided, but then they cherry pick what they want, then quote and straw man attack that. Clever. It almost appears that they are helping you, the seeker of truth out by doing some footwork for you. Not so much. Don't be insulted, look for yourself. It's not the haystack they want you to think.

Here's a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the "issues" brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here's more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

Now you will likely notice the "you never address or answer our points" posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here.

Sometimes it is claimed that these sites present a needle in a haystack. Far from it. But if you give up before you try you won't know will you? They often state that these sites provide no answer. They just don't want you looking. It is as simple as that.

Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself. Want to chat with someone on any topic? A few of these sites provide just that. So do your homework sincere seeker of truth. Listen and read from both "sides". Make up your own mind.

I witness to you of these truths and wish you the best, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

 

[Alex Murphy]

greyfoxx39..."You've posted a total of 734 threads and 20,909 replies."

Alex Murphy...You've posted a total of 3,504 threads and 14,226 replies.

You'd better get to work on that thread count, gf!

[greyfoxx39]

You'd better get to work on that thread count, gf!

Oh, but you are SO much older than I. ;0)

[Tennessee Nana]

greyfoxx39..."You've posted a total of 734 threads and 20,909 replies."

Alex Murphy...You've posted a total of 3,504 threads and 14,226 replies.

Tennessee Nana: You've posted a total of 400 threads and 36,187 replies.

[Tennessee Nana]

PING to #55

[Tennessee Nana]

Happy New Year to all...

:)

[Graybeard58]

greyfoxxx39..."You've posted a total of 734 threads and 20,909 replies."

I know how to find that info about myself but is it possible to find someone elses stats?

[T. P. Pole]

Rather than respond to the request for references, you ridicule. Your statement has two parts, and both are wrong.

The mormons believe that their mormon holy ghost did something so naughty that he/she will never get a body...

Part one - the mormon holy ghost did something naughty.
Part two - the mormon holy ghost will never get a body.

Please provide your sources for these claims. And not ridicule.

We can discuss things in a civil, respectful manner. I trust that my record shows that I will (when time permits).

[T. P. Pole]

Happ new year to you too. Been a while. How have you been?