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To: MHGinTN

I think works do proceed from faith, and also that good works strengthen and increase faith.

I also agree with James who said that faith and works are both necessary.


71 posted on 11/06/2010 12:39:17 PM PDT by Normandy
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To: Normandy
The same James from whom Mormons like to quote one verse to support their familiar spirit appeal to test God on the book of Mormon has addressed this works/legalism versus Grace issue and finished the issue in a way that Mormonism does not wish to embrace since it eliminates their/Mormon 'after all that you can do':

Acts 15:13-21 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up (Amos 9:11):
That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things (Amos 9:12).

Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

This pronouncement was being sent to gentiles. James did not say 'follow the ten commandments and all the law and the prophets or your salvation will be cancelled'. Yet that is precisely what Mormonism teaches!

'Abstain from pollution of idols' is an interesting point, because later we find that Paul explains some (himself included) may have eaten food that had been offered to idols, but it didn't cancel his Salvation!

Abstain from fornication was perhaps an admonishment to not have pre-marital sex because such behavior has been frowned upon by God from the beginning, yet even this behavior is not a condition posed by which these gentile Christians would lose their Salvation.

The last two items are how we know this was aimed at trying to not cause contention between Jews converted to Christianity and the gentiles. Paul later addresses the freedom of Christians juxtaposed with the legalism of judaizers (Mormons).

72 posted on 11/06/2010 1:06:08 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Normandy
Let's take a closer look at the faith and works issue, from two who met the Lord in person after His resurrection.

James 1: 22-25 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. [The ‘work’ James speaks of being a doer thereof is faithing in God’s Promise to the Saved, not to those hoping to someday be saved. James is addressing the process of faithing (verb) in the Holy Spirit guide within, Who transforms us during the rest of our life int he flesh. Following is Paul’s address to this same concept of the Saved being transformed by faithing in God. Notice Paul's use of the present tense--actually the present perfect--when explaining this process of faithing in God's transforming presence within the believer.]

Romans 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. [Because of His righteousness in you in the presence of His Holy Spirit in your before dead human spirit.] 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

Romans 8:12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

77 posted on 11/06/2010 1:35:06 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Normandy

The good works are forordanined and the result of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.


81 posted on 11/06/2010 1:48:54 PM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: Normandy
 
I also agree with James who said that faith and works are both necessary.
 
Then you disagree with JESUS; Who said they weren't!
 



John 6:28-29

Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"

Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."



BTW; James never said what you claimed he did.

 


84 posted on 11/06/2010 2:26:44 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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