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To: Normandy
If that's the best you can do, and that fluff suits you, then God has much more to say unto you.

First, can works generate faith, or do works evidence the presence of faith? ... Before you put both feet in your mouth to spew some fable of Mormonism, the Bible answers that very clearly. I would advise you to dig for it but I am convinced that Mormonism has so blinded your mind that you would not see it if you stumbled across it, so I'll enumerate.

Look carefully at the story of Abraham taking Isaac up on the mountain for the ritual of sacrifice that God had commanded Abraham to carry out. Before Abraham set foot up the mountain, he gave them/us a clue to those who were told to wait while he went up the mountain.

Abraham told the waiters that 'they would return to them after the ritual was completed'. THAT IS THE Working of indwelling faith, for though Abraham had not brought along a sacrifice for the ritual, he believed there would be one, and if it be his son he trusted--faithed, as in the verb faithing--that God would keep His precious promise to make of Abraham descendants more numerous than the grains of sand, through Isaac. Abraham was faithing in the Promises of God without having a time machine to know what or how God would make it so, thus it was counted for him righteousness (Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen ). Now this was before the Crucufixion and resurrection.

Read Hebrews and see what the author has to say about the exercising of faith. Faith in Jesus as Savior, Redeemer, THE Deliverer is the substance God values, not your works you trust are done to earn worthiness.

Abraham exhibited faith in God's promises BEFORE he acted out his faith on the mountain, but he did act out his faith, thus his faith was alive not dead without works. The lesson is that faith when it is alive and you are 'faithing' in God's Promises will exhibit acts/works BECAUSE HE indwells your human spirit, not because you're striving to earn His Grace. There are other examples in Hebrews which will help to elucidate this concept. Enjoy

69 posted on 11/06/2010 12:31:36 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

I think works do proceed from faith, and also that good works strengthen and increase faith.

I also agree with James who said that faith and works are both necessary.


71 posted on 11/06/2010 12:39:17 PM PDT by Normandy
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To: MHGinTN

If that’s the best you can do, and that fluff suits you, then God has much more to say unto you.


14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


I believe the above is talking about what we should do instead of what we should not do, in other words Jesus died so our sins would be forgiven us, for those who believe, that has been established.

But we also have to live our life here on this earth, if we can not obey God when he tells us not to do something, how about trying to obey him when he tells us to do something?

A friend of mine commented that he had failed miserably on the first part, but said he was doing better on the second part.

He said that he was badly tempted by women, so the no,s were hard to do for him, but that to give some one something to eat if they were hungry was much easier because he did not have no temptation not to do it, so by doing it he believed that it was works by faith.

The bible says plainly that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, but how many times have you ran across some one who you knew were the worst of the sinners that was even more willing to help some one than a more respectable person.

I do not know how to put it all together but i believe we are all different and we do not all have the same if any gifts.

If we are believers God is here with us.


82 posted on 11/06/2010 2:03:20 PM PDT by ravenwolf (Just a bit of the long list of proofs)
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