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To: metmom

It doesn’t say that they were believers, only that they did mighty works. They were in it for themselves - the self-described saved of this era, for example. If you call yourself saved, you supersede Jesus in form, and will be denied at the Judgement. If Jesus Judges, a man cannot declare that Judgement ahead of time. Sorry, Judgement does not work that way either in temporal or spiritual court.


3,804 posted on 11/30/2010 7:04:29 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: metmom

**crickets**


3,818 posted on 11/30/2010 7:46:39 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: MarkBsnr; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; Belteshazzar; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...
John 3:16-18 16"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

I believe, both in God and God.

Ephesians 1:3-14 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Jesus declared that Judgment ahead of time.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

True believers are in possession of eternal life NOW in the spiritual level. Their body just needs to catch up.

3,828 posted on 11/30/2010 8:01:07 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

***crickets***


3,850 posted on 11/30/2010 8:29:37 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: MarkBsnr; metmom
It doesn’t say that they were believers, only that they did mighty works. They were in it for themselves - the self-described saved of this era, for example. If you call yourself saved, you supersede Jesus in form, and will be denied at the Judgement. If Jesus Judges, a man cannot declare that Judgement ahead of time. Sorry, Judgement does not work that way either in temporal or spiritual court.

I must say, Mark, your take on things is sometimes quite unique! You say it doesn't say they were believers. But it does. It says they said, "Lord, Lord...we did these mighty works in your name...". They sure thought they believed in God. But you are correct in your assessment that they were in for themselves, yet that describes all people who do good deeds in order to get something in return. In this case they expected heaven. Isn't that what your religion teaches you?

You claim that those who say they are "saved" are in a way "pre-judging" themselves and usurping Jesus, yet doesn't Scripture say many times that we can know we have eternal life? For example, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.", that sure sounds like an assurance to me. I think what is happening here is, since you believe that your eternal destiny is based on how good you are, you don't think you can ever really be sure about where you will go when you die because, well, you're not dead yet and who knows what kind of mischief you might be overwhelmingly tempted into until now and then, right?

You are angry at the "self-described saved of this era" because you think they (me) somehow think we have attained the perfection of ourselves that is required for the eternal beatific vision. Am I right? Yet, we haven't in any way ever said that and if someone does say that they are quite wrong. None of us can go to heaven because of our good deeds no matter how much suffering or self-sacrifice we endure. No amount of manmade goodness or merit could ever take the place of the perfection that the blood of Christ imparts upon the believer. That is the awesome and amazing thing about grace. We do not deserve what we get and do not get what we deserve.

So the next time you start thinking us self-described saved people are just bragging on ourselves, stop and think about what we are really saying, that we are falling upon the grace and mercy of the most high God who loved us so much he provided a way for us to be with him forever. We aren't bragging.

3,898 posted on 11/30/2010 11:06:23 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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