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To: annalex; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; Belteshazzar; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...
Quite simply, since you are judged by your works (Matthew 25) you cannot be holy without them.

Matthew 7:21- 23 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

Here are people who believed in God and did mighty works(miracles), cast out demons, and prophesied in Jesus name. They had the works and they believed God.

And yet Jesus said that He never knew them. What were they missing?

It simply goes to show that you CAN'T depend on works. They did and they appealed to them and yet their works clearly didn't save them or in any way contribute to their salvation.

3,797 posted on 11/30/2010 6:53:59 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

It doesn’t say that they were believers, only that they did mighty works. They were in it for themselves - the self-described saved of this era, for example. If you call yourself saved, you supersede Jesus in form, and will be denied at the Judgement. If Jesus Judges, a man cannot declare that Judgement ahead of time. Sorry, Judgement does not work that way either in temporal or spiritual court.


3,804 posted on 11/30/2010 7:04:29 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: metmom; annalex
Metmom: "It simply goes to show that you CAN'T depend on works. They did and they appealed to them and yet their works clearly didn't save them or in any way contribute to their salvation. "

That's a strawman.

Firstly, as per Church teachings, dogma, our beliefs, Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross was was gave us our salvation. That act was/is sufficient for our salvation. His sacrifice is what saved us, we cannot and do not save ourselves. THAT is Church teaching.

So, the Catholic point of view is yes, works do not save us and works do not grant us salvation.

Now, as to your first point of works being useless, you neglect the part which says "the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

The verse purely means that you should work on the will of the Father, not "I", "I", "I".
3,935 posted on 12/01/2010 4:55:58 AM PST by Cronos (Et Verbum caro factum est et habitavit in nobis (And the word was made flesh, and dwelt amonst us))
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To: metmom; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; Belteshazzar; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww
They did and they appealed to them and yet their works clearly didn't save them

Indeed. This is why the Church teaches salvation by faith and good works, but not by works alone, and not by faith alone. It is a good idea to figure out what the Church teaches before arguing against it.

4,883 posted on 12/06/2010 5:36:25 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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