Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7
In Christ Alone lyrics
Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;
In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand
In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save
?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live
There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ
This just shows the contempt Calvinists have for the teachings of a loving and forgiving God that they would believe that Good people, striving to follow Christ would go to hell. It shows that the Calvinist concept of sin is not that it requires a conscious choice of evil over good, but a failure of coerced conformance to a set of rules. This is not at all like the Catholic belief that to obey (from the Latin ob-audire, to "hear or listen to") in faith is to submit freely to the word that has been heard.
This makes me better understand the Calvinist rejection of works since works reluctantly performed are not a gift to God and will not help with ones Salvation.
That's not a problem. Annalex already declared that Catholics are Pauline Christians because Paul's theology supports Catholic doctrine. It's no different than any of the Protestant Churches who base their theology on Paul's teachings.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2618333/posts?page=1488#1488
annalex:Everything S,.t Paul write is inspired scripture and supports the Catholic doctrines. Whoever disparaged St. Paul doesn’t understand Catholicism. We are Pauline Christians.
:)!
Yeah. That’ll be the day....
Not an unexpected response.
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God.
Can you not see my point? What you have written is not a salvation by grace but of wages earned..God owes men NOTHING but the fire of Hell..
There is no such thing a a 'GOOD 'person in Gods eyes. EVERY man has broken His laws, every man deserved to have His judgement.. Hell will be full of people that think they are "good" . Hell will be full of people that think the others with them were "good" people... But we are not judged by the standards of men, we are judged by the standard of God.
Jesus came to do what we could never do.. then his "report card " which had all A's on it is given to those that repent and He takes their report card filled with F's to the cross.. jesus came to fulfill the law for us..(2 Corinthians 5:21)
The pride of men want to earn heaven ... Trusting in one's self, trusting in rules, trusting in works gives men the glory ...not Christ ..
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life, he who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.” (John 11:25)
Of course not. I didn’t understand when I was a Catholic too, and dead in my sins.
When I came to Christ and had the new birth, my eyes were opened to see the truth.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
I just heard a great line from David Jeremiah on the radio .
He said the unsaved can never understand salvation because they have never experienced it. .
I thought how true that is..How can we explain the change that a circumcised heart makes.. How your entire life changes ?
We can not, because there are not human words to explain a spiritual birth
What others thought about Jesus’s family does not prove they were biological children on Mary, but merely that they were from the same household. Further, the word “brother” in antuique usage is not limited to chidlren of the same parents; see for example Lot and Abraham are said to be “brothers”
It is important because it is the truth known to the Church from 1c, and truth matters.
You are not castigated for that -- I am doing the same thing in denouncing Protestantism as a counterscriptural invention. Your error is that you deviate from the scripture in matters central to the faith: you deny the guidance of the Church, the sacraments of the Church, and you invented the false theory of salvation being by faith alone. All that is contrary to the scripture. Further, while the scripture is indeed "a point of authority", your error is to consider it the sole point of authority, whereas, again, that is not in the scripture.
Because it is true.
Patience is a sign of error?
Sorry, I had to run an errand and just got back.
Ohhhh yes, that’s beautiful too and I love singing it in our church.
I'm going to assume that's the one you are referencing. And I will say, never say never, mas. No pope can order a Catholic to commit murder? How about Pope Urban II in 1095. Or during the next 200 years the eight futile crusades that popes sent thousands of crusaders to die for? And Gregory IX instituting the Roman Inquisition in 1231 in order to purge the Church of heretics? And then there is the Spanish Inquisition (1478-1820). Do not say that Popes cannot order a Catholic to commit sin. Unless you believe that killing non-Catholics isn't a sin.
Apparently a lot of the Apostles did not get the memo on that. Acts 22:1, 1 John 2:13.
Pastors that are unmarried
The Church can bind and loose on that (Mt 18:18). Some are married others are not. We sure don't have priests that have more than one wife, in accordance with 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1.
‘Salvation’ by works
We don't teach salvation by works. We teach salvation by grace alone through faith and good works (Eph 2:5-10) (no these are not the same as works of the law).
Prayer to the dead.
Where is that forbidden in the scripture? Maccabees has a direct example; it is not our problem that you truncated your Bible.
Repetitive prayer.
Jesus repeated His prayers. What Matthew 6:7 condemns is not repetition in itself but the idea that unless they repeat the prayer they are not heard.
Purgatory. Clear scripture on that, 1 Cor 3:9-15.
Seances in place of the rememberance of Communion
Huh? Christ said, "this is my body", and we take Him at his word.
Following traditions of men.
Those men are "bishops [who] rule the church of God" (Acts 20:28). Worry about following traditions of charlatans like Luther instead. Who appointed him?
Statues/idols worshiped and revered.
We don't worship idols. We venerate Holy Images. See reference to the Crucifix in Gal 3:1. See instruction to venerate the icons of God and be trasnformed by them in 2 Corinthians 3:18.
Relecs worshiped and revered
They are venerated, just like the holy Images. See an example of that in Acts 19:12
Secret confession booths
Nowhere in the Bible is that prohibited.
Just what do catholics do that is scriptural?
The authoority of the apostolic Church, the necessity of the sacraments of the Church, salvation being a result of a life time of sanctification through faith and good works, -- all these are things that are scriptural and denied by the Protestant heretics.
“that ugly falsehood “ is the Holy Scripture.
This just shows the contempt Calvinists have for the teachings of a loving and forgiving God that they would believe that Good people, striving to follow Christ would go to hell.
I guess the contempt "Calvinists" would have for such teachings depends on what exactly is being taught in terms of a "loving and forgiving god". What you do offer for us to consider is the person who is:
"to follow Christ" is "Religious-speak" for God only knows what, it is sort of a Rorschach test for each person. A spiritual Mad-lib where you insert whatever work you want to trade in for God's alleged approval. This is sort of blasphemous because it says that man can initiate covenants with God and obligate Him to our vanity quid pro quos.
Rather, it is fascinating to see what the Scriptures have to say about what it is to "follow". Let's start in an odd place where we have a contrast with the same word.
John 13:36 "Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward."
Being that this passage is from the famous prediction of Peter's denial of Christ, it is pretty obvious that the first "follow" refers to the Cross. Jesus is pretty much saying, that this aspect of "following Christ" isn't to die nailed to a tree.
Now skip back a bit to yet another confrontation with the Scribes and Pharisees - who, by the way, were experts on following God's commandments.
John 8:21 "I am going away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin. Where I go you cannot come."
The reprobated Pharisees immediately thought of the Grave, and that He would commit suicide. Our LORD clarified it by saying "You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.". Contrast this statement of our LORD to the Pharisees to the one that He speaks to Peter. In the case of those who had "works righteousness" down to a literal science, they were told that in all of their works, they COULD NOT follow Christ. Peter, OTOH, was promised that he would follow Christ without any mention of works.
The Scribes and the Pharisees were well known for their obedience to the Law. Do you think that Jesus Christ was thinking of "works" when He said "Follow Me" in the second phrase to Peter? Here is another hint:
John 12:26"If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor.
The plot thickens, for He makes "Following" Him a consequence of serving Him. That is, "to follow Christ" is not works as it is treated differently than service to our LORD. Furthermore, He says "where I am, My servant will be also". Clearly, to "follow" Christ is not talking about works, but is something that Reprobates CAN'T do but the Saved CAN do. The experts in the Law could do all the Godly works they so desired, but after all of that work, they would still not be with Him.
Need more?
Matthew 19:16-22, Mark 10:17-22, or Luke 18:18-23. All the same, where our LORD counsels the Rich Young Ruler to first keep the commandments, to which the young man claimed he had faithfully followed all of the Law. Then our LORD told him to sell all of his possessions (a "work" no where found in the Law) where he would then have "treasure in heaven". Basically, our LORD said that the man could keep all of his valuables, except they would be transformed and relocated to heaven. (unlike the bilge you hear from so many pastors during Stewardship Month when they have an underfunded building program on their hands).
When the man didn't like the deal, he declined because his mind clearly was not on Heaven, but on the here and now. He valued temporal life more than eternal life. Thus, when given the choice of heaven or earth, he chose earth. What were our LORD's last words to Him after telling him to exchange all of his temporal goods for heavenly ones? He added, "and come, follow Me."
Coincidence? Hardly. To follow Christ means to be with Him in Paradise. It means to value the things above more than the things below. The Scribes and Pharisees were Reprobates - Predestined to damnation and that is why, no matter how obedient to the Law they were, they would never be able to "Follow Me". That is why God told Peter that "later" he would not only be able, but will indeed "Follow Me", because later, Peter would join our LORD in heaven.
The Scribes and Pharisees "strived to follow" through obedience to the Law, to find their righteousness in works rather than Grace. To Peter, there was no mention of works, no mention of striving, indeed, the Promise came immediately behind a rebuke. There was no, "if", no fine print, no sunset language or contingencies when our LORD told Peter that he would indeed "follow" Christ afterwards. The Promise to Peter was not due to Peter's merit, past or future, it was unmerited, it was Grace Alone.
This is yet another passage of predestination and Calvinism in full view. Here, the Scribes and Pharisees were predestined to Hell. Another passage that must be the most terrifying in Scripture is John 10:26, to the same audience our LORD declares their reprobation.
John 10:26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you."
Notice that due to the Closed Book Principle found in 1 Corinthians 2:14, the Scribes would never be able to believe and thus will die in their sins because they were not Chosen by God to be part of the Father's flock given to Christ. This is what Jesus said to them. Terrifying indeed for the Almighty God to say to your face that you will be eternally estranged from God.
In Peter's denial, we have a picture of the natural man, not understanding the things of God, and thus the "Get Behind Me Satan" Peter demonstrated his misunderstanding of our LORD's tasks yet again. What is beautiful to see is that in this condemnation, there was the promise of regeneration, salvation and eternal life with our Savior in the phrase "and you shall Follow Me afterwards". To be with Christ requires Election by God and salvation. And here our LORD said in few words the Promise of Redemption that began in the Garden and perfected at Calvary.
And you thought Calvinists couldn't see God's love. We see it in places you Romanists would never find it.
Tabernacle is where we put consecrated Eucharist, the central part of a Catholic church. Since when that is St. Peter’s body?
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