Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7
In Christ Alone lyrics
Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;
In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand
In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save
?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live
There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ
Who can believe anything obama claims? I think some forget that even satan acknowledges Christ. It is one thing to claim an affiliation or belief in Christ and or a church....it is another when Christ is Lord of your very life.
Black Liberation/Jeremiah Wright and those he has impacted, including Obama, are hate filled people. I do not acknowlege their church as Christian for all know that the Church of Christ has long lost it’s “light”. Though there may be a few stragglers.
I am glad you now agree that the American Inquisition is necessary. As to your question, since the Church never taught that molesting children is good for the faith or moral, her infallibility is not thereby challenged.
separating the "Church" as an organization or institution from the individuals who comprise it
The teaching of the Church on faith and morals is not any mechanical agglomeration of what individual Catholic say or do, but rather a set of dogmatic teachings that is well-defined, chiefly in the Catechism, in consiliar documents and in papal encyclicals. The teaching of individual Catholics does not aytomatically receive the stamp of approval from the Church and that is how you separate the two.
Because it does. Since there is no magisterium equivalent in Protestantism anyone who declares themselves Christian, but standing in "protest" of the Bishop of Rome and the Catholic Church is Protestant. Anoyne can self define themselves to be anything they want to be. Who are you to contradict them or to claim exclusive jurisdiction to the name?
After all, we constantly hear the inverse about how self proclaimed "Catholic" democrat politicians are really Catholic even though they stand outside the Communion of the Saints. You really can't have it both ways, however, if you are willing to concede that your list are CINO (Catholic In Name Only) and not really practicing Catholics, then by I could accept that Obama is likewise a self proclaimed "PINO".
On this we agree completely. It doesn't matter if the Church that satan claims membership in is Catholic or Protestant. No organization truly dedicating itself and its works to Jesus condones or authors evil. That doesn't mean there are not wolves in sheep's clothing within any of them.
The Church gave birth to the New Testament, and it canonized and correctly explained the Old Testament, but she did not give birth to the Old Testament, that was the work of Moses and other prophets, all under divine inspiration of course. With this correction, yes, you got it right: "not the other way around".
Mary gave birth to Jesus. Ergo, Mary is superior in authority and stature to her Child
The analogy is invalid for two reasons. First, Christ did not say anything similar about His Blessed Mother that He did say about the Church. For the analogy to work one should find Christ saying something like "What my Mother binds on Earth I will bind in heaven". There is no such statement.
Second, you analogize things that cannot be analogized. It is true that the Church gave us the New Testament, and also that Mary gave birth to Jesus. It is also true that as a general rule if X makes Y then X has superior authority over Y. However, while the Church most certainly made the New Testament under divine guidance, Mary did not make Jesus. Unlike a book, no matter how holy, Jesus is not an object that had been created. The Incarnation is a singular event that cannot be analogized in such manner.
Without the Holy Scriptures the Catholic Church is nothing
This is plainly not true. With or without the Scripture the sacraments of the Church remain and the institutions of the Church remains. All that happens is that written teaching becomes oral teaching.
Obviously, the Roman Catholic apologist can take little comfort in the fact that he has only sixteen denominations while Protestantism has twenty-one; and he can take even less comfort in the fact that while Evangelicalism has no divisional breakdown, Roman Catholicism has at least four major divisions.
Very interesting read..thanks.
“Obama’s Black Liberation Theology is a mixture of Roman Catholicism and Black Moslem. They have strong similarities with the Early French Catholics that claimed that Christ married Mary Magdalene”
Not according to its founder nor according to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_liberation_theology
Mixing liberation theology of South America which is condemned by the church as it was anti-Catholic and backed the Sandanistas, with Black liberation theology is a hash.
This is Benedicts instruction on Liberation theology:
INSTRUCTION ON CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE
“THEOLOGY OF LIBERATION
1. This all-embracing conception thus imposes its logic and leads the “theologies of liberation” to accept a series of positions which are incompatible with the Christian vision of humanity. In fact, the ideological core borrowed from Marxism, which we are referring to, exercises the function of a ‘determining principle’. It has this role in virtue of its being described as “scientific”, that is to say, true of necessity. In this core, we can distinguish several components.” SNIP
Just an excerpt of a very long discussion.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19840806_theology-liberation_en.html
One is not the other.
It certainly doesn’t further an argument by throwing ad hoc arguments into the mix.
The wolves are generally the first ones in the door! And we know the enemy of mens souls trods within them as well. Were this not so neither Protestant, Evangelical, Catholic or any other denominations would be contending with the vast infilitration of evil we see in the church family today. I do not see Obama as a Christian...no matter where he claims his affiliation..."the fruit" is not there, other wise is clearly seen. BTW didn't even Hitler claim to be a Christian? I think so.
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> “So what if it isn’t 30,000, or even 8,196. What if the number is only 800, or 500, or 100?”
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Its 5, which is better than the Catholics that have literally hundreds of thousands of different sects.
There is less doctrinal friction between the 5 main branches of “Prostantism” than there is between any two average dioceases of the Roman circus. And they are all one on the main point: Salvation is by Grace, through Faith, and that not of our selves, but as a gift of God (lest any man should boast as the Catholics do)
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So, you selected the second of the two options: “ On the other hand, if one just wants to cast baseless aspersions ...”
Thank you for confirming my guess.
annalex wrote:
“... but none would have amounted to a hill of beans were it not for German appetite for sophistry and Henry VIII’s oversize libido.”
Where would good reasoned logical debate be without ethnic slurs and character assassination?
Catholics have all kinds of splits and dissensions within their own ranks. They’re in no position to criticize.
James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
Intellectual assent or acknowledgment is not faith.
Lots of people believe in God.
Not so many believe God.
I don't believe anything that lying politician claims. Anything he claims is simply for advancing his political career.
I do think that he really did slip when he said *my muslim faith*. He was talking off the cuff, without a teleprompter, and got caught off guard.
ooopsie...
Any official statements are just for show.
In response to my statement:
“Without the Holy Scriptures the Catholic Church is nothing.”
annalex wrote:
“This is plainly not true. With or without the Scripture the sacraments of the Church remain and the institutions of the Church remains. All that happens is that written teaching becomes oral teaching.”
Your reasoning is pretty close to that of the chief priests, the scribes, and the elders of Israel as they debated the meaning of the Holy Scriptures with Jesus. That didn’t work out so well for them as I seem to recall. But maybe, like Nancy Pelosi, you’re convinced that the problem of Roman teaching is just one of communication not substance. Enjoy the delusion while it lasts.
When you look at the differing opinions of Catholics just on these threads alone, you can see the fallacy of the unity of the Catholic church.
So the Vatican has an official doctrine to fall back on. Big deal. Lots of denominations have that.
There are as many different flavors of Catholics as there are Catholics. The church acknowledges the different rites to begin with, but when it comes down to the parish and individual level, the teachings vary widely.
We can see that in the disparities among the Catholic universities, the Catholic publishing houses, the Catholic nuns (the ones who support abortion), and in different Catholic countries.
You can see it regularly on FR in the different threads where some bishop or cardinal makes some proclamation that contradicts Scripture or the Catechism and the FRoman Catholics go into contortions excusing, defending, and throwing the guy under the bus. Just because some bishop says something doesn’t mean it’s official Vatican policy. Except for the complicating factor of the guy being an ordained Catholic priest given a high level of responsibility.
There are many third world primarily Catholic countries where local superstition and animism is mixed in with the Catholic beliefs. Everything from the voodooism mixed in with it in places like Haiti and the Dominican Republic to the superstition that I witness your average Joe Catholic on the street display.
The idea that Catholics are united in the beliefs of their church is one of the biggest fallacies that the RCC puts forth.
There are many religions who honor and worship ‘A’ God. The problem I see gaining more traction than it should, of recent, is this universal opinion the Christian God is the same for all faiths and that just simply isn't the case. There are many counterfeits and imposter's out there...unfortunately so many fail to recognize this when coupled with the universal thought we all need to get along and come together. That is not what God taught nor has He desired it be so. This push to incorporate all faiths as worshiping the same God is not for the good as you know. Am very concerned how Catholics and Mormons and other faiths are snuggling up to Islam...as if that snake won't bite. Reminds me of that story where a young girl picked up a snake and carried it up the mountain, with the promise it wouldn't hurt her...when he did bite the girl brought up his promise and why did he do so...It said...."You knew what I was when you picked me up".
Annalex: This is plainly not true. With or without the Scripture the sacraments of the Church remain and the institutions of the Church remains. All that happens is that written teaching becomes oral teaching.
Just wow. The RCC doesn't need the Word of God. Straight from a Catholic's keyboard.
Another one for your list, gamecock.
I agree they are simply not the united front in which they claim....and that is without question. Which then begs the answer of why they continue to claim this? Protestants differ yet their foundation in Christ is solid for the most part...but we do not base our “fellowship” with one another on a church..rather it is directly in the heart of Christ. And some Catholics do as well but it seems to always have all this other “stuff” they believe they must adhere to. I don’t think that is going to change no matter the truths which are clearly revealed to them where they’re in error.
Well I do consider the journeys some take in arriving at the Catholic Church, where they see the church as all important. Some have been involved in the past with churches/denominations which are off the wall and or caused them great anguish...they then look for another to ease the pain and or disappointment they suffered, consciously or not it does seem to be a standard for some. Then it is not at all uncommon for them to lash out at the other faiths which harmed them. That happens when one puts too much faith in the church they attend...... Unfortunatley it is a false safety as ones security lays only in Christ and His word...never a church organization.
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