Posted on 10/15/2010 5:39:02 PM PDT by delacoert
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Most of us have had a Mormon Missionary knock at our door. If you have ever invited them in and listened to a presentation of their beliefs, you probably found most but not all of what they said very similar to those beliefs held by Christians. However, while trying to convince you that your Church is wrong and the Mormon Church is right, there are several points they intentionally leave out. Below is a list of Mormon beliefs the missionaries will be reluctant to tell you about: |
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They will be reluctant to tell you that the God they worship was not always God. |
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"We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 345) |
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They will be reluctant to tell you that they believe Jesus Christ is the spirit brother of Satan: |
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"The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind." (Milton R. Hunter, Gospel Through the Ages, pg.15) |
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They will be reluctant to tell you that, according to Mormonism, Jesus Christ was a polygamist. |
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"I discover that some of the Eastern papers represent me as a great blasphemer, because I said, in my lecture on Marriage, at our last Conference, that Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary, Martha, and others were his wives, and that he begat children." (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses 2:210) |
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The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in the doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were 'Mormons'" (Jedediah M. Grant, Journal of Discourses, 1:346) |
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They will be reluctant to tell you that for at least half a century church leaders were teaching that Adam was really God and the only God with whom we have to do. |
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"Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken--He is our Father, and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 1:50) |
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"I have learned by experience that there is but one God that pertains to this people and he is the god that pertains to this earth--The first man. That first man sent his own son to redeem the world..."(Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 4:1) |
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They will be reluctant to tell you that Brigham Young, who held the office of President of the Mormon church longer than any other man, taught that men must practice polygamy in order to become Gods. |
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"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy." (Journal of Discourses 11:269) |
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They will be reluctant to tell you that the book of Mormon fails to contain any Mormon doctrine |
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Many portions of this Mormon Scripture even contradicts Mormon theology. |
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They will be reluctant to tell you about their secret temple ceremonies which, until April 1990, portrayed Christian ministers as hirelings of Satan. Nor will they tell you about the sacred underwear they are wearing which, they believe, actually protects them. |
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They will be reluctant to tell you that Mormon leaders have taught that Jesus was conceived by way of a sexual relationship between God and Mary. |
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"..how are children begotten? I answer just as Jesus Christ was begotten of his father. The difference between Jesus Christ and other men is this: Our fathers in the flesh are mortal men, who are subject unto death: but the Father of Jesus Christ in the flesh is the god of Heaven" (Joseph F. Smith, Family Home Evening Manual, 1972, pg. 125) |
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They will be reluctant to tell you that they believe the bible has been corrupted throughout the centuries and cannot be trusted fully by itself. |
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"I believe the Bible as it read when it came from the pen of the original writers. Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph smith, pg.327) |
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"But the Bible has been robbed of its plainness; many sacred books having been lost, others rejected by the Romish Church, and what few we have left, were copied and recopied so many times, that it is admitted that almost every verse has been corrupted and mutilated to that degree that any two of them read alike." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, pg.213) |
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They will be reluctant to tell you that the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants, which they claim to be both sacred and without error, contradict each other many times. |
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For example, in the Book of Mormon, God called David and Solomon's act of polygamy an abomination, whereas in the Doctrine and Covenants He claims to justify it. Jacob 2:24 in the Book of Mormon says, "Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord." Section 132:1 in the Doctrine and Covenants, however, states: "Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines." |
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They will be reluctant to tell you that they use Christian terms with Mormon meanings. |
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For example, a Mormon would probably agree with you that a person must be born again. To the Mormon, however, "born again" is a process which begins with water baptism. Another example are the words "salvation" and exaltation," which are synonymous in the Christian's mind. However, general salvation to the Mormon merely means the resurrection which everyone in the world will receive at death. Exaltation, or individual salvation, is the reward earned by the Mormon by following the laws of the Moron church. "Eternal Life" to the Mormon means Godhood. Regarding the word "scriptures," the Christian thinks of the Holy Bible while the Mormon could be thinking of not only the Bible but the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price as well. |
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They won't want to tell you that in order to gain entrance into the highest form of Mormon heaven, the Celestial kingdom, you must accept Joseph Smith, Jr. as a prophet of god. Faith in Jesus alone, Mormonism teaches, will force you to spend eternity in a lower form of heaven. |
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Tenth LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith stated in his book, doctrines of Salvation, that there is "No salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. The word "salvation," used in this context, must really mean "exaltation" because former Mormon apostle Bruce R. McConkie stated in his book Mormon Doctrine that general salvation is given to everyone regardless of belief. Personal salvation or exaltation to the highest form of Mormon heaven comes only by accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of god and by following the laws of the LDS church. |
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They will be reluctant to tell you that their founder, Joseph Smith, Jr., made many false prophecies which, according to the Bible, would classify him as a false prophet rather than a true prophet of God. |
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For instance, in 1835 Smith claimed that the Lord would again come in just 56 years. We would gather from this "prophecy" that Jesus Christ would again come to earth on or before 1891; no doubt Joseph Smith was incorrect (History of the church 2:182). In 1832 Joseph Smith claimed he had a revelation concerning the building of a temple in Independence, Missouri. According to section 84, verses 4 and 5, of the Doctrine and Covenants, he stated this "temple shall be reared in this generation. For verily this generation shall not pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it..." to this day the spot consecrated by Smith fails to be the sight of a great temple, but instead is covered with a well-kept lawn. In fact, the Mormon church does not even own the land. |
you should really turn the LDS portrait of Joe Smith into that graphic in a morph. That would be awesome to use
Yammering IS a fun word. Like Riboflavin.
Excellent exposition, can we expect the rest of the AoF?
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[MTGinTN says]
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[Stourme muses]
And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.Luke 2:52
You're correct. He was not yet God. And Jesus was the first of our Heavenly Fathers children. That's why Jesus called Him Father. God is His parent.
How could Jesus increase in favour with God if He was God? How could He increase in wisdom?
Increase means there's room to grow. Means He wasn't all the way there yet.
MTG, the gospel you espouse is wrong. It ignores facts and scriptures like I've quoted above. It ignores about 99% of the Bible. Therefore, I reject it as not being true.
Jesus was part of the God head. One with God the Father in purpose. Under the direction of God the Father. Now however, Jesus a God, with a perfect body, perfect knowledge, and will return in power and great glory.
Now, can you admit that Jesus increased in favour with God?
...well, do you want to try Article 2?
sure...incoming...
LMBO!
Thanks Stourme.
You are preaching, I fear, to closed minds and hearts. They have all they need already and refuse to listen. Perhaps your method will bear fruit.
Funny thing is, over and over again, they spout the same propaganda, either making issue where there is none, twisting or misrepresenting. It’s all there plain to see and they just stick their fingers in their ears and go lalala.
It’s fascinating yet sad.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. [KJV]
You notice The Bible states that The Word was God, not The Word would be a god eventually.
The god of Moronism who Mormon teachers claim sired Jesus, was once not a god either, and had to gain the attributes of godhood. Sorry, son, you are in an heretical cult which is trying desperately to claim it is the most correct rendering of Christianity.
Since you know so little of what the founders of your cult have taught, let me help you a bit further. Notice Joseph Smith is being quoted from your 'JOurnal of Discourses'. Weaseling is not very becoming, or do you not realize that your weaseling is a way of deny what your supposed prophet taught?
We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father, and so on, from generation to generation, from one heavenly world to another still more ancient, until our minds are wearied and lost in the multiplicity of generations and successive worlds, … and as a last resort, we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten. But why does man seek for a first, when revelation informs him that God's works are without beginning? (Lds apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 132, 1853)
"Some people are troubled over the statements of the Prophet Joseph Smith. ... The matter that seems such a mystery is the statement that our Father in heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man. This is one of the mysteries. ... The Prophet taught that our Father had a Father and so on. Is not this a reasonable thought, especially when we remember that the promises are made to us that we may become like him?" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp.10, 12).
The teaching of infinite regression conveys some peculiar sense of layered eternities. But Smith used the term "beginning" as before the world was created, sending this eternities notion into an irrational contradiction of itself when Smith also claimed that the father of the Mormon Jesus was once a man on a planet, before he ‘gained‘ the attributes of godhood! And if a ‘council of gods’ is not Mormonism teaching polytheism, then pigs have wings and should be granted flight paths. And if someone thinks this heresy is not a current teaching of the LDS of Salt Lake City, the following from LDS ‘Prophet’ Hinckley should clear it up:
From the 1994 LDS Conference report:
“On the other hand, the whole design of the gospel is to lead us onward and upward to greater achievement, even, eventually, to godhood. This great possibility was enunciated by the Prophet Joseph Smith in the King Follet sermon (see Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 342-62) and emphasized by President Lorenzo Snow. It is this grand and incomparable concept: As God now is, man may become! (See The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, comp. Clyde J. Williams, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1984, p. 1)
But wait! There’s more astonishing Mormonism doctrine:
In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5, 1844)
In the very beginning the Bible shows there is a plurality of Gods beyond the power of refutation. It is a great subject I am dwelling on. The word Eloheim ought to be in the plural all the way through--Gods. The heads of the Gods appointed ONE God for us... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372)
According to Smith's worldview, "the heads of the Gods appointed one God for us." Smith is making a BIG deal about Eloheim=plurality of gods. A Mormon apologist, doesn't know this? They don't teach this in Seminary or Institute or Sunday School classes? Why not? Or is it that this is not taught because it is too far in left field?
“I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why he interferes with the affairs of man. God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3, 1844)
Do you, Stourme, realize why Christians and Jews consider this teaching to be heresy?
In the Greek reading of Luke 2:52, the rendering indicates that the showing of God’s favour on Jesus was growing. You seem to think that passage indicates Jesus was earning more favor. That is not what the Greek indicates. But I can see whay you would prefer that point of view, what wiht the need to defend the heretical teaching that Jesus had to gain the attributes of godhood, like Mormonism teaches the Mormon jesus had to gain as his father did.
“I don’t need to discredit your recollections, as they change on such a regular basis that “
Another insult from a so-called Christian.
Bump #828
I am grateful for LDS Missionaries and thank you. The Missionaries who taught me the lessons were so wonderful - one was shy and backward, the other outgoing and charming. God uses the foolish things to confound the wise. CTR.
Thank you for once again proving that your Jesus is not the same as my Jesus. You are right about that. My Jesus is the Son of the Living God; He is my Savior; He loves and accepts me; He is my Best Friend; He is my Advocate with the Father; He is my Savior and Redeemer; He is the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament; He is the Prince of Peace; my personal Savior; and our Soon Coming King. I love Him. The Holy Ghost ever lives to draw us closer to Heavenly Father and His Beloved Son Jesus Christ.
Your Jesus is some kind of tyrant who rejects and condemns.
Welcome to my world. CTR
Saundra honey, you just contradicted Stourme! He says the Mormon jesus had to gain godhood, but you have Jesus as the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament. ... And you wonder why Mormonism is considered a non-Christian cult?
If you ever meet my Jesus, you will not say He condemns. My Jesus said at His dying minutes on the cross, as a man in excruciating agony, straining to get a last breath, ‘Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.’ So please, try to meet Him before leaving this life so He will not say to you ‘Depart from me ... I never knew you.’ My Jesus is none of the Momron characteristics I listed in #743 of this thread. Have you read the list, Saundra, and read the quotes from your religion’s teachers?
“And you wonder why Mormonism is considered a non-Christian cult?”
There you go again accusing Glenn Beck of being a member of a cult. Really?
You say my Jesus is not your jesus. Well, Saundra, here's the list as compiled form the quotes of your religion's teachers! See if these characteristics are the ones which fit the Jesus of the Bible, the Jesus you should trust as Savior of your immortal soul:
Mormons believe Jesus was married at the marriage feast in Cana where He changed water into wine.
Mormons believe that the Momron jesus was married to more than one woman.
The Mormon jesus was persecuted because he was a polygamist.
The Mormon jesus came into existence when his father in heaven created him along with his brothers and sisters, as a spirit being who was not yet a god.
Mormons believe Lucifer was one of the Mormon jesus's brothers, before the Mormon jesus became a man and later a god.
The Mormon jesus is one individual god in a troika of gods which includes the Mormon jesus's father--who was once a man and inhabits a body of flesh and bones and through goodness gained the attributes of godhood when he was selected by a council of gods to be the god of earth--and the never to receive a fleshly body holy spirit.
It is claimed that the Mormon jesus can save you, after all that you can do to be worthy of the grace of the Mormon godhead--which is, again, a troika of three gods working for a common purpose.
Mormons believe their jesus can save a person who rejected Him while in their body, by accepting a proxy baptism for them performed in a Mormon Temple by a Temple worthy Mormon.
The Mormon jesus gained the attributes of godhood through the life he lived in the flesh, which gained for that jesus exaltation.
Saundra, you've seen the quotes by which this list of characteristics for the Mormon jesus was compiled. But just incase, would you like for me to post the quotes again, quotes that not one of your heroic missionaries playing Mormon apologist tonight has denied?
BTW, Saundra Duffy, your little deceit was ignored on purpose. Do they teach you that trickery in Mormon sunday teachings? You know I didn’t ‘accuse Glenn’, and in fact I haven’t mentioned him on this thread, that I recall. But I do believe he is trapped in your cult.
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